Pre-set Tank On A Speed!!

[nastyimp03]

ok i have been interested in getting a speed and wanted to kno if you could use a high out put pressure tank on the speed. will it cause any harm at all to the gun?? thanks a lot

[TopCourage]

u can..as high of pressure i think of 800psi...the only problem with that is that u will have a really hard time dropping the velocity below 300fps...

[nastyimp03]

ook well i found this reg http://www.actionvillage.com/031-4320.html and was wondering if i could lower my output pressure with it? thanks

[cryptonomicon18]

I hear that with the new pmi screw in tanks you can take out shims to lower the output to like 600 which is good for a speed.

[hybridd77]

yeah but i would imagine adjustable being the best way to go eventually

[nastyimp03]

so would it be o.k to use the high pressure output tank for a little while? (like 1 month) and would i be able to get the velocti below 300? thanks

[cryptonomicon18]

You will have to try... It changes gun to gun due to dwell and springs and your exact output of your preset... If you are buying a new one, get adjustable or low pressure...

[nastyimp03]

alright i will try thanks.. but if it dont work can i just get the pmi thor reg http://www.actionvillage.com/031-1050.html and use that on it?

[cryptonomicon18]

Yes, that will work. I have never tried it so I can not tell you how well it runs, but it will definatly let you get your velocity under 300fps. By the way, what preset tank do you have?

[Tempest261]

I just replaced my minireg with a AKA Sidewinder I had laying around. Works fine with my 850 preset.

[cryptonomicon18]

That would work too... Did you do that on your speed or iR3?

[nastyimp03]

Originally posted by cryptonomicon18
Yes, that will work. I have never tried it so I can not tell you how well it runs, but it will definatly let you get your velocity under 300fps. By the way, what preset tank do you have?


i have a nitro duck HP out put 68/45

[nastyimp03]

alright well which do you think will be better getting a new inline or getting that THOR reg?

[cryptonomicon18]

Well I haven't used the thor reg... It depends how good the thor reg regulated. Some of the inline regs are really awsome and will give you good consistancy. I would look at reviews of the THOR at pbreview and see what people say.

[Tempest261]

That would work too... Did you do that on your speed or iR3?

Speed.

It wasn't needed with the IR3. Mini reg worked fine since it takes a much higher input.

[nastyimp03]

alright well should i just get an ir3 then so i dont have to get any other thing except the gun and a drop?

[TopCourage]

its all about preference man....if u have your sights set on a speed, sacrifice a two hundred dollars and get a nice LP preset tank or get a regulator that can handle your preset. personally i went with the speed and have not yet had a regret with buying it...

[nastyimp03]

alright well i really dont kno what to do i want to get the speed but at the same time.... i donno really..

[TopCourage]

think about this...depending on what IR3 u get....u will be spending some where around 1300 dollars with the gun and a dropforward to get the thing running...with the speed u spend 950 on the gun 50 on a good drop(if even necessary) and a good LP tank(200) or just a good inline regulator(50-150) that leads u too a max of 1200, if even that....

[cryptonomicon18]

Get the speed! Its crazy fast and mad accurate (due to great consistancy)!

[C.Carles-AOG]

Get the SPEED, don't look back. Save up some and get a good air source. You don't HAVE to have one though. Read on: http://www.angel-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7852&highlight=frazer
Read the second post in the thread.

[TopCourage]

but isnt true though c.carles that he has to have some way to get his pressure down to get the velocity down below 300fps???

[russell]

i am also getting a speed and was wondering if the mini reg from the ir3 and lcd( not '03) would work with an 850 preset on the speed?

[TopCourage]

i believe the mine regs are actually the same...might be wrong...

[C.Carles-AOG]

Originally posted by TopCourage
but isnt true though c.carles that he has to have some way to get his pressure down to get the velocity down below 300fps???

Top, Frazer from WDP stated that if you have trouble bringing the fps down due to the high output psi from the tank that you could lower your dwell and that in turn will lower your fps. Let me quote:
1. Speed pressure settings including the use of fixed reg tanks.

When setting the pressures at the factory (note the guns do not have volumizers on at this stage), we set the tank regulator output supply to 500 psi, this is then regulated down through the mini reg to 350 psi, and finally this 350 psi is taken down to just below 80 psi by the LPR. Once the LPR has been set you will be able to lower the 350 psi from the mini reg until you reach the desired velocity (note volumizers can be attached at this point if desired).

When running with a fixed pressure tank you should be fine provided that the tanks output does not exceed 900 psi. If the user struggles to get their velocity down to their required setting they can reduce the dwell, this will result in the valve being opened for a shorter time period and as a result less gas will be allowed out and a lower velocity shall be achieved.

[cryptonomicon18]

Sounds logical

[C.Carles-AOG]

Or save up and get an AIR! I got an AIR so I'm ready for any Angel I buy after I hand down my Dark LCD to my son. :angel:

[Tempest261]

As for switching the Mini-regs with an older style...

I believe they are in fact the same mini reg. Only difference is the actual gun. The IR3 wanted 600 psi (correct me if I'm wrong), so taking 850 down to 600 was no big deal. You had the adjuster screw somewhere in the middle and it worked great.

Now the minireg is trying to bring it from 850 down to 300. You bring the screw in all the way, but it can just barely lower it below 300 fps. Seems to me like the minireg hasn't changed at all.

But remember guys, the mini reg is just that- a MINI reg. It can only regulate so much. Slap a true reg on there that can dial all the way down to 0 psi and you'll be in business.

[cryptonomicon18]

They wanted around 400psi depending on the dwell to get your desired velocity on the iR3... the Speed is under 300... I think they also made the speed mini reg to be more high flow for low pressure use.

[C.Carles-AOG]

Tempest, it was stated that the mini-reg is indeed a different design. Let me look into that and find you the info, I recall reading it though and I have a bankvault for a memory...

[Tempest261]

yeah I read that too but remember to take hype with a grain of salt. Until I see actual schematics, I'm going to remain a believer in the theory that they're the same.

Possibly what WDP did was open up some air passages in it to create higher flow (and then run around saying that they redesigned the whole thing), but this wouldn't have done much to alter the original design, resulting in the problems we're seeing now with HP tanks.

[cryptonomicon18]

They stated it, weather its true or not is a different story.

[C.Carles-AOG]

Russ from xtreme:
http://www.angel-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6789&perpage=15&highlight=minireg&pagenumber=2

To quote:
The mini reg piston is longer, and the spring pack is arranged differently, so it is physically different already.

I told you I had read it somewhere...I love my memory :evilgrin:

[C.Carles-AOG]

Also:

The output of a Speed's mini reg range with an input of ~850psi is 250psi-600psi
With a High pressure preset and the velcity screw almost all the way in, it is possible to run a preset, without any volumizers for the air chamber.

HOWEVER if you change the spring stack (of course this is taking away from the original design) It is possible to alter the range of the output of the minireg.

Original spring configuration 6 springs up/down/up/down/up/down

Altered configuration 7 springs
up/up/up/down/up/down/down

With an input of 850psi, the output range will go from 150psi-500psi.

[C.Carles-AOG]

And:

This message was received via email from frazer,

Just to clarify

A speed WILL work with fixed regs to a max output of 900 psi this will give a velocity of 275 FPS at an input from the Angel front reg of 350 psi

A fixed reg that is shagged can give an output of 1050 psi when filled to 4500 psi and this is a reg problem not a speed problem.

It is preferable to use a low pressure fixed reg as this will allow the user to use all the gas in his tank for max efficiency this is why we recommend a low pressure regulator for efficiency and consistency eg: once the fixed reg falls below it set output the velocity can be affected see examples below

fixed reg at 500 psi will have no affect on velocity until the tank is below 500 psi
fixed reg at 850 psi will have no affect on velocity until the tank is below 850 psi

All the best,

Frazer Colley

[Tempest261]

Originally posted by C.Carles-AOG
Also:

The output of a Speed's mini reg range with an input of ~850psi is 250psi-600psi
With a High pressure preset and the velcity screw almost all the way in, it is possible to run a preset, without any volumizers for the air chamber.

HOWEVER if you change the spring stack (of course this is taking away from the original design) It is possible to alter the range of the output of the minireg.

Original spring configuration 6 springs up/down/up/down/up/down

Altered configuration 7 springs
up/up/up/down/up/down/down

With an input of 850psi, the output range will go from 150psi-500psi.

Aha! This is very interesting. Has anyone tried this? Of course it requires an extra spring, but that's not a big deal (you can find them in any Angel shim kit). I'm very interested to see how the consistency is with this configuration.

[Slaphappy]

a speed works fine as long as the output is below 900, but i would suggest a lower preset

[Tempest261]

it's not that it works or not- it's that when you have the adjustment screw in all the way the reg doesn't perform all that well. I was getting very inconsistent results when using it like that.

[Slaphappy]

you would id think because your velocity must have been pretty high

[nastyimp03]

alright well i decided on getting the speed and i am going to use my high out put pressure tank... i will just experiment with different settings to see which works best

[Slaphappy]

good choice

[liquidblue19]

will my preset pmi 3000 be okay with my speed? or will i have to change it?

[Slaphappy]

ya its fine, i wouldnt see why not

[liquidblue19]

i think i might experiment with a thor. see what happens

[SPEED2003]

hey liquidblue19 if you do happed to buy that thor reg post on here and tell us how it turns out cause i was looking to get one

[N_R_Z]

Can somone tell me exactly how to lower the output pressure of the new pmi tanks? Do i just take a spring out of the belleville spring stack?

[dark2k2LCD]

i have a pre-set high pressure tank. while i'm saving up for a low pressure, i dont want to put un-neccesary strain on the mini reg. will adding a couple volumizers help in lowering the fps and reducing the strain on the mini reg?

[Talfuchre]

I use a Preset 400 psi output Crossfire tank to great results.

They do a reg swap for 55 bucks at thier booth (PSP and NPPL).

TF