ok, so the speed runs on 180psi, well how can you tell????

[CpCnCir3]

first off let me say, i am in LOVE with this gun and cant wait til mine arrives!!! after thinking awhile about this whole 180psi and volumizer thing i started to wonder. without a gauge how can u tell what pressure you are running your speed on??? i mean why does wdp say you can run it at 180-350psi???? it doesnt make sense. just because you have a bigger volumizer doesnt mean your speed will run at a lower pressure, it just means that you CAN run at a lower pressure with no shootdown because of the crazy amount of air they store.

so this brings me to the question, well how DO you run at a lower pressure???? if u simply turn the minireg down to do so, it wont shoot hard enough. it will lob out paintballs. so im still stuck, the only way to INTENTIONALLY lower the pressure on the speed is to turn down the minireg, then up the dwell like crazy. just like an impulse.

so when wdp says the OP is from 180-350, does that mean we have to just luck out and have our speeds shoot at 280fps on 180psi???? i mean on all electro pneumatics from timmys to impys, the gun has to have X amount of input pressure and Y amount of dwell to shoot 280fps. its just that on guns like timmys and impys, that X amount of pressure is usually around the same on every single one. so i dont see what wdp means when they say 180-350psi. thats a huge range of pressure if u ask me. can anybody help me out here. its really confusing me and i dont know if im just missing something here......

[pntbalmatt]

i think the dwell just gets longer as the presure drops... less force over a greater time, equal impulse...
(I=FT)

fT =Ft...

Hey, while we're talking about physics, who here jumps on the bandwagon and believes the inconceivable "flatter shots" bs and not to mention the "longer range" hullabaloo that circulates about random guns...

:-D

[CpCnCir3]

i get what u are saying about the dwell but i dont think thats what it is. the solenoid/14 way switches the air flow to drive the ram forward, then when the dwell time is up(10ms for example) it switches the air flow to the front of the ram bringing it back. to put it simply, the dwell cant be any longer with LP because the solenoid/14way still only has a 10ms dwell time.

as for the whole flatter shots because of LP, and all that BS, lets try to keep it outa this thread. plenty of those threads have been made and they all end up with the hype beleivers and the physics buffs pissed off at eachother.

[CpCnCir3]

anybody else have a say in this????

[C.Carles-AOG]

The A.I.R. is only putting in that psi. Simple really. :-)
Ron from Mo's shot his at 195psi. You can see the video for yourself.

[AngelSpeed1]

what is everybody runnning there speed at out of the a.i.r. and into the gun

[Vantage_TeS]

202psi

[warpedx]

Operating pressure is due to the flow of air through a marker. More volume=less pressure. Low Volume=Higher Pressure.

With a redesigned lpr and ram, less pressure is required for the hammer to hit the valve hard enough.

lol Vantage, I was always suspicious of canada with that red leaf on the flag.

[CpCnCir3]

i understand what u guys are saying but why does wdp say 180-350. thats a HUGE range. so how do u get your gun to shoot on the lower range. a bigger volumizer doesnt lower the pressure, it just allows you to run lower pressure with no shootdown due to the mass amount of air being stored. so how do u get your speed to shoot at 180 as opposed to 350???

[warpedx]

I guess for the extreme ranges you are going to have to adjust your dwell to compensate. Only so much air can flow through the valve in a given amount of time.

[CpCnCir3]

thats exactly what i thought. thats the only way to compensate for a lower pressure.

[captncrunch]

I dunno, but the lp part of the speed seems a lil fishy to me.

[CpCnCir3]

the whole gun is starting to seem fishy..... it was soo hyped up and seemed like a gift from the big man himself. 30 bps even though an owner on one of the forums said it only goes to 22bps. im not complaining but the higher the max rof the higher the acheivable rof is, the reaosn why timmys rip so fast. the hype made sensi seem like it worked like ACE but with the mechanics of cops2 which seemed awesome, when all im hearing is a bunch of problems with sensi from it not working to full auto rampages. im in a bind here, this seems like its going to have TONS and TONS of glitches from what ive mentioned to the annoying first shot drop off problem. the problem is i sold my crossfire HP to get a crossfire LP. i havent bought the LP but what if the speed does infact have tons of glitches and i wastd my money on the LP output. man this sucks.....

[dooksdooks]

LP crossfire is an output of 450 right? You won't have wasted your money.

And as for the sensi, mine seems to work very well but what i've noticed is this.

if you somehow manage to chop a ball with sensi on or off or whatever, paint tends to squirt down the shaft of the thingy the sensi goes through to reach your breech, and this paint around the plastic sensi rod messes with it enough to make your sensi act up. when this happens (if you're playing with sensi on) is while rapid firing you'll have gaps in your firing where the sensi isnt sensing the paint but it is actually in the breech. the simple fix to it is to take off the grip frame, pull out the sensi rod, clean it off, clean the sensi platform and anywhere else you see paint, put it back together and go back to ripping paint.

i've had days where i shoot all day and dont get a chopped ball, but if you do get a chopped ball, after that game you really need to clean your sensi rod. It works well, but this one pain in the ass makes me think the sensi is just a really ****ty design, because all that cleaning is ridiculous.

overall, i'm very impressed with the speed, you can really rip on this beast and the sensi performs very well when its clean.

as for all the LP stuff, I'm not even going to worry about it, i've got my maxflo output set to 400, I 2nd reg it with the minireg till i get the gun shooting 300 fps, then i lower my dwell as much as possible.

I was talking to one of mo's angel techs today and he was telling me that he got his speed running at 150ish, but that it's a huge gas hog like that (1000 shots out of a 68/45). So I'm not gonna worry about how low I can get the gun running, cause I play with a 45/45 and every extra shot I can get out of it is necessary hehe.

[IMPerfection]

like ACE is much better dooks?

[Styles Bitchley]

Perhaps the new internals are tight and the pressure variance is due to their fitment and how broken in they are. The AKA guns are similar this way, after awhile they can cycle at a lower pressure because the seals aren't as tight.

As hinted you may experience less efficiency at a lower operating pressure, and lower rates of fire due to the larger volume of air being moved through the gun.

If you want to check your pressure you can rig up some kind of gauge, or tap the veritcal adapter for one.

[EZE]

Fishy?? My speed don't smell fishy. I got the speed friday just in time to use it in a 2 day scenario. My brother in law used it and went through around 3 cases. I put a crossfire HP tank on it checked the factory settings on the mode, sensi, dwell, charged the battery and put some paint through it just to check. He then used it all weekend. What we found so far is that it operated perfectly out the box. It shoots faster than my Cobra Ir3, is quieter, and smoother. What was suprising was how light it felt. Much lighter than the IR3. We compared it to a Timmy GZ, which was very close with the Speed lighter by a hair. It also did not chop a ball all weekend using an Evo II. So the initial impression is very positive and now the tweeking starts.

[C.Carles-AOG]

How many shots do you get out of your 45 dooks?

[C.Carles-AOG]

EZE, that has been my experience thus far as well. As you saw from Ron's clip it was straight out of the box and it plain rocked.
Glad you're enjoying yours.

[j_gets]

CpCnIR3 and any other skeptics out there:

The ROF adjustment does only go to 22, but it controlls the ROF only when Sensi isn't active. That's why the literature says 30 bps with sensi active. The ROF adjustment is only there in case you don't want to use or have to disable sensi due to a malfunction during a game. Again, the ROF limiter is used as a method to prevent chopping and is only effective when not using sensi. Using sensi and a fast enough feed system (and trigger finger) it WILL shoot 30 bps.

By the way, so far very pleased with mine!



J

[dooksdooks]

IMperfection - I've never owned a gun with an ACE on it, but the whole having to remove the grip frame and remove the sensi rod to clean it after a chopped ball seems to me like a ****ty design.
I'm very happy with how my speed shoots, and since I got the sensi working properly, I havent had any chopped balls, but if you accidentally shoot the gun without the sensi on and chop, you're gonna have to do all that cleaning to get your sensi working properly again.

C.Carles- I played Saturday and Sunday with it so far, with the highest fill between both days being like 3300psi ( I don't know what was up with the compressors) but I was able to dump a full halo and three 140 tubes with air to spare (usually about 700-1000 psi left over). So that's about 600 shots with plenty of air to spare, and the tank not even filled to 45. I'm expecting that when I get a good fill I should be able to get 900-1000 shots out of it.

i love my speed.

[IMPerfection]

yes while that it a problem the ACE design is flawed in other, similarly unfortunate ways. If a peice of shell or paint from a chop that shouldnt have happened gets on the eye, it wont do anything at all. so it wont prevent you chopping. Also, many eyes have problems with black paint and swirl paint, which is more a programming error than an integral ACE defect. Finally, the eye requires external hardware and eye covers, which IMP detract from the look of the gun. Keep in mind the almost all of my eye experienves is based on Impulses, since thats what I have used up until I sold it to get a Speed. While neither COPS/Sensi nor Vision are perfect, as long as you use decent paint (and run Sensi on setting 2 or 4 to eliminate chops), you shouldnt have problems with either...

[dooksdooks]

Well there's two types of eye's, when I saw ACE i'm not talking about the crappy vision thing from smart parts, I'm referring to a double break beam eye. Double break beam eyes can use any color paint if i'm not mistaken, its not just a reflection off the ball that is used to sense a paintball in the breech like a SP vision, a double break beam just means that if a ball comes between the two sensors and the beam is broken, it is like, sensed and stuff. These work far better than the SP vision and most new guns come with this type of eye.

[dooksdooks]

i think!

[CpCnCir3]

i got my speed today!! all i have to say is OMG!!! this thing is absolutely beautiful AND shoots like a dream. i take back everything i said about being skeptical and the speed being fishy. it is ALOT easier to shoot fast on the speed vs. my opto ir3. the leaf spring is incredibly light compared to an opto ir3s leaf spring. its not just that but it somehow just allows you to shoot faster. i mean i shoot it as fast as i shoot a timmy with a WAS board. i couldnt even come close with my ir3. i also havent experienced a single mechanical flaw with it. no first shot drop off, nothing. i cant stress enough how awesome of agun this is!!! the only thing that was bad was the fact that i was using a HP output tank(my brothers). it was shooting WAAY too hard even with the velocity screw all the way in and it was loud because of this. once my LP tank comes in and i get a volumizer im sure it will shoot ALOT smoother and quieter too. i still dont get how sensi works though......

[dooksdooks]

CpCnCir3- What do you not get about it? It has that little plastic stick thingy sticking up into the breech, a paintball falls on it, it presses a sensor/button thingy on the grip frame, this notifies the gun a paintball is in the breech.

that's how it works...

[CpCnCir3]

duh i know how it works, i sold an ir3 with cops2 to get it. i just dont get how its programmed. like is it supposed to delay or just not shoot? when i have it on mode 1 which i assumed is a forced sensi mode, it still shoots. not as fast as with sensi off but still a good 8-9 bps. so i dunno if this is a bug or if it somehow works fine with paint. i had no paint so all i could do is dry fire. other than the sensi thing, its flawless, from looks to performance.

dooks- i dont think paint getting down there would affect it that much. something else has to be wrong. it works similarly to cops and when cops got some paint down there, it worked just fine. i dont think it should just stop working and require you to take off the whole frame just to clean the plastic rod.

[EZE]

Am I the only one that thinks that Sensi is just CopsII with 4 preset options?????

Looks the same to me.

[Knobbs]

Originally posted by CpCnCir3
i get what u are saying about the dwell but i dont think thats what it is. the solenoid/14 way switches the air flow to drive the ram forward, then when the dwell time is up(10ms for example) it switches the air flow to the front of the ram bringing it back. to put it simply, the dwell cant be any longer with LP because the solenoid/14way still only has a 10ms dwell time.

as for the whole flatter shots because of LP, and all that BS, lets try to keep it outa this thread. plenty of those threads have been made and they all end up with the hype beleivers and the physics buffs pissed off at eachother.

But that's exactly it--

If you increase the dwell, you increase the amount of time the ram stays forward, which increases the amount of time the air flows into the breech.

You have 1 gun with an extremely short dwell, but it fires 400 psi. It's like kicking a soccer ball--it's a quick burst of force to accelerate the ball quickly.

The longer dwell fires at, say 200 psi, and it accelerates the ball more slowly, but still to the same speed.

Remember, as the ball moves forward in the barrel you increase the size of your air chamber, therfore decreasing the pressure behind the ball. When a ball is halfway down the chamber, you have alot more space to fill, and with the quick burst that pressure is dropping rapidly. With the dwell set higher, you are still feeding that air chamber, so the pressure is still high. Basically, halfway down the barrel, your 400 psi might be 200 psi because the air chamber doubled in size while your 200 psi is still 200 psi because the pressure is still coming into the chamber. Same effect, but one is easier on paint. The problem is, your valve is open alot longer which is stealing more air from your tank (inefficient). That's how low pressure works, or how I envision it working anyway. Less of a 'shock' on the ball because it's not getting hit hard right away, but less efficient as well. In order to facilitate it, the dwell isn't the only thing that needs to change though--you need to deliver that air quickly to the chamber, which means higher flowing air passages.

As far as the flatter trajectory stuff? I don't buy it either.

Anyway, I didn't see this discussed anymore after your post so I thought I'd address it.

[CpCnCir3]

ya thanks for the input. i see what u mean. but thats what i was basically asking. my real question was, in order to actually run the lower pressures on the speed do u have to up the dwell accordingly to shoot the same fps. thats what i assumed but i was just making sure.

[dooksdooks]

CpCnCir3, that's just what i've noticed personally, when it's clean, it will get 10/10 on the drop test, when it's got paint down there, its 6/10 to 8/10 ish.

It makes sense if you think about it, the paint around the sides of the sensi rod in the shaft slow down its travel and don't allow it to press the sensor correctly.

[IMPerfection]

well LP doesnt have to be less efficient - general example ( i know its unrealistic):
Case 1: 400 psi *.2 ms = 80 psi/ms
Case 2: 100psi * .8 ms = 80 psi/ms

[Kriptic]

Hey, while we're talking about physics, who here jumps on the bandwagon and believes the inconceivable "flatter shots" bs and not to mention the "longer range" hullabaloo that circulates about random guns...

:-D [/B]
I think its kinda jacked man... The straitshots will eventually drop (gravity duh) its just a matter of how long they arestraight,which is very hard to judge by eye alnoe,for distance the only way to get something toshoot the furthest is by holding the gun at a 45 fegree angle, anything less will be not as far... so... I am a big believer in having guns that work with how you play... I went through a Tippmann, cocker, Matrix, and angel LCD and have finally found that IR3s are the guns made for my style of play... like them or hate themits all up to the player to find what gunmakes them preform best... I think my IR3s were made just for me and shoot how i want them too.. i see it, i hit it. no exceptions.

[Kriptic]

Originally posted by EZE
Fishy?? My speed don't smell fishy. I got the speed friday just in time to use it in a 2 day scenario. My brother in law used it and went through around 3 cases. I put a crossfire HP tank on it checked the factory settings on the mode, sensi, dwell, charged the battery and put some paint through it just to check. He then used it all weekend.

What! You just got a Speed and you let your brother in law use it?:moon:
what were you using then? There is no exception other than having God himself chucking paint at the opposing players... Lucky brother in law though hehe :owned:

[EZE]

I was reffing half the time and using the Cobra IR3 the other. I wanted to get some paint through it any way I could. If I hadn't lent him the Speed he would have used a Spyder Compact(sorry for the profanity) He was happy.

You get a different perspective watching someone else shoot your gun. It really made me realize how quiet it was. I mean Matrix quiet.:drools:

[phenomenon]

It really is as quiet as the Matrix??

[Jedrith]

Originally posted by phenomenon
It really is as quiet as the Matrix??

Lo-P tends to make it happen.

[Styles Bitchley]

The reason you might require a longer dwell time with a lower pressure gun is because low pressure=high volume. You need the valve open longer to move the amount of air needed to push the ball, which is making up for the lack of pressure.

Also, lower pressure does not mean more gas is used. It depends on the design. My Excalibur has two rams and two solenoids in it chewing air, but runs at 180psi and I can get an entire case off a full 68/4500 fill.

[pntbalmatt]

Originally posted by Kriptic
The straitshots will eventually drop (gravity duh) its just a matter of how long they arestraight...
Actually, they only go 'straight' for an infantecimal fraction of a second... i dont know if this is what you mean, but one gun cant make a ball stay 'straight' for longer than another.

Originally posted by Kriptic
the only way to get something toshoot the furthest is by holding the gun at a 45 degree angle, anything less will be not as far...

Heh, its actully 43 degrees in atmosphere... balls (baseballs, basketballs, my mom) create a little bit of lift that bumps them up about two degrees from the release angle, so if you shoot at 45 deegrees, the ball goes up at about 47, and then you get less distance.

:doh:

funny how it works

[C.Carles-AOG]

Matt your knowledge of physics alone makes me welcome you and please stay around. I thought I was the only "geek".

[CpCnCir3]

omg c carles, i shot my speed with paint yesterday for the first time. OMG this thing is insane. it makes my opto ir3 look like a little school girl. i was hitting an easy 19bps if i had to guess from the sound of the gun compared to my max of 14 on my ir3. i turned sensi off just to see what would happen. bad idea i outshot my egg2 like nothing which never happend to me before with my ir3. the sound of it shooting was a complete blurr instead of distinct *pops*. the led was just pure red the whole time. i now see how its possible to hit past 20bps easily. this gun makes it happen somehow some way just like a timmy with was board does. dont ask me how but im sure my fingers arnet pulling any faster thanwith my ir3. it just shoots way faster, plain and simple. kinda sucks though.... i need to sell my evo2 for a blue halo b.