Speed Minireg?

[IMPerfection]

I'm relatively new to Angels, and I heard that the Speed minireg has to have an input pressure of less then 500psi. Is this true? Also, what exactly comes in the Speed's box (ie what do I need to get)

[MooShoo1717]

2advanced im not saying that it is better but remember that it is different and this may solve the lower input pressure problems. With increased flow a lower pressure is possible.

[IMPerfection]

so ur saying it will take hp presets? If it does I will be buying one of these. If not then I will have to think some more.

[TopCourage]

the Angel Speed, as far as I have heard, will run nearly perfect with a preset tank....remember, the minireg is practically the same thing...it is the internals and the larger air chamber that makes this gun run at lower pressures...

[Jestersfollys]

2advanced has a good point, they would lose too much business, by forcing people to use adjustable tanks. more than half the compressed air market is none adjustable tanks.

[IMPerfection]

so assuming for a moment that they were dumb enough to do this, what would you need to convert the minireg to a new reg (ie Sidewinder, Gladiator, or Torpedo?)

[MooShoo1717]

A lot of people at my field use sidewinder

[C.Carles-AOG]

Apparently the mini-reg is an all new design. Perhaps the SPEED is not intended to be used with a preset, while this will alienate a lot of people more tourney players that already have a high end air supply system are apt to consider it. Who knows what their aim is with the gun? The niche of the Angel has always been the tournament player, seems like this is continuing that theme.

[Terence95]

While it does say in the new manual that accompanied the new Speed that I purchased in LV, the recommended input pressure to the mini-reg should be around 500psi.
I have used a PE 45/5000psi hp tank no problems. I have also attached an AIR and DynaFlow and have seen no difference in the performance of all 3. However even with the installation of the largest volumizer on the valve side, the lowest I could run the mini-reg is 250psi to achieve 300fps. No where near the 190psi that is claimed by WDP.

[IMPerfection]

yes that reassures me greatly.... I wasnt really into spending $80 on an AKA sidewinder just to USE my new gun... I already gotta buy an ASA....

[b4rt]

you have to have an asa for teh speed to op rite?

[b4rt]

i dont see y that would be. just a preference?

[IMPerfection]

well AFAIK the speed doesnt come with one, so you would have no place to attach a bottle w/o buying one lol.

[MooShoo1717]

Frazer (someone from WDP) emailed me back and said that you have to have a lower enough output pressure from your tank or you will not be able to get the fps below 300. Meaning no 800 psi output tanks.

[IMPerfection]

So how is terence doing it?

[Terence95]

The AA Guardian tested output of my screwin is about 750 psi. Output of the mini-reg is 250psi to get 300fps with the largest volumizer that came with the Speed. I can get the mini-reg flow nicely down to 180psi, but the velocity suffers greatly, it's around the 220fps range.

[IMPerfection]

wow thats cool I guess I will order my gun this weekend then lol

[TopCourage]

wait a tick....the Speed comes with volumizers???

[IMPerfection]

yeah... wait a sec lol I didnt catch that.

[specforcesin2010]

please cure my stupidity: Do I need to go out and get a regulated tank or is my preset satisfactory?

[russ]

I set up a few systems in Vegas.
There were some that had no problems with the preset tanks, and then there were a few that we couldn't get the velocitiy down.
I asked JR about it, and he said that the input pressure for the mini reg should stay below 700psi for optimal performance.
The tanks that we had problems with were some nitro duck tanks, that I reg-ed the output pressure at 946-967 psi.

The ones that I did set up, I set the tank output to 600 psi. And had no problems. However I don't know what the optimum or recommended out put pressure from the tank should be. In a few weeks, we should have better data to draw from.

[specforcesin2010]

Thanks Russ, by the way, is my warantee with you or WDP?

[russ]

Chances are that it is not a myth.
JR told me that 700 psi was the most the output of the tank should be, so that should pretty much be the bottom line there.

The mini reg piston is longer, and the spring pack is arranged differently, so it is physically different already.

[IMPerfection]

it should still work...

[specforcesin2010]

Whatever the case may be, if you want the Speed to run on optimal conditions, the only way to set them is with an adjustable tank. A present will do fine as Russ said. However, it can be better.

[Knobbs]

I just bought a PE THOR for my Speed. Too bad I have to wait until next week to try it!

Terence95: Did you bump your dwell up along with taking down the input pressure?

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally posted by specforcesin2010
Whatever the case may be, if you want the Speed to run on optimal conditions, the only way to set them is with an adjustable tank. A present will do fine as Russ said. However, it can be better.

An adjustable tank does nothing for performance alone. If you get better velocity with an adjustable it probably means your inline reg sucks or can't handle high pressure. The solution if you don't want to buy a heavier, more complex, less reliable adjustable is to get a preset and a quality aftermarket regulator like a Sidewinder.

Adjustable tanks are a bunch of nonsense really, waste of money in my opinion unless you want to single reg then gun.

As for the Speed, if you pay $950 for a state of the art gun with a reg that's incapable of regulating your $150 preset bottle....get another reg or get another gun!

[Terence95]

Knobbs,
My dwell is set on 10ms, up from 8ms, the factory default settings.

[MedicBanks]

If you want to use that HP you will need to re adjust the spring stack in the mini reg to get it in the correct range.



All the best,

Frazer Colley,

frazer@wdp-paintball.com







came in my email today

[MedicBanks]

btw he is refering to a fixed pe 88/4500

[IMPerfection]

whats he saying?

[TopCourage]

ok...so we have finally concluded that the Speed is operable with a preset tank???

[CpCnCir3]

yes but u heard 2advanced, with the minireg screw ALL the way in, it was shooting 280fps. in a tournament you need to be shooting a good amount under 280 to avoid pentalties. so we know you CAN run a preset at 800psi but its not reliable.

i just sold my crossfire 68/4500psi tank for 170 when the offer came along because i got 170 out of the 190 i payed for it. so now i need to either get the same tank but with the LP output(450psi) or a nice adjustable like an 03 conquest. does anybody know whether or not running a 450psi output preset will hurt the speeds performance when it comes to starving the minireg???? the manual recommends 500 psi so im assuming 450 is ok???

[IMPerfection]

i dunno what u are talking about man.... 300 is the tourney limit and u wanna run as close as possible to that while minimizing the risk of a hot shot while at the chrono

[Docnlk]

Originally posted by IMPerfection
i dunno what u are talking about man.... 300 is the tourney limit and u wanna run as close as possible to that while minimizing the risk of a hot shot while at the chrono

Not all tourney speeds are 300, it depends where you play. Not to mention that you might want to use it somewhere other than tournaments, where indoor open play speeds are more like 250. I have a 68 45 crossy right now, but a lot of the places I play have lower fps than 280, so wether I like it or not, I might, and you as well, might have to suck it up and go adjustable. Personally, that is the way I was moving anyway, it just makes more sense.

[russ]

OK
This thread is getting way to long

The output of a Speed's mini reg range with an input of ~850psi is 250psi-600psi
With a High pressure preset and the velcity screw almost all the way in, it is possible to run a preset, without any volumizers for the air chamber.

HOWEVER if you change the spring stack (of course this is taking away from the original design) It is possible to alter the range of the output of the minireg.

Original spring configuration 6 springs up/down/up/down/up/down

Altered configuration 7 springs
up/up/up/down/up/down/down

With an input of 850psi, the output range will go from 150psi-500psi.

Of course until I can confirm this with JR, and assess any unforseen effects, I would not recommend anything that deviates from the original design principles.

But it does work

[TopCourage]

i just got an email from Frazer.....he reccomended to me to get the Crossfire tank with a output of 450psi.....

[IMPerfection]

hey russ that sounds really cool, when can you have more info on that idea for us?

[IMPerfection]

cuz its better than the 800 i guess. jason - what do you think of russ' idea?

[TopCourage]

ok...so what the hell do i do then....im going off to spend 500 dollars on a maxflo or angel air....would a tank preset at 800psi be operable????

[TopCourage]

which preset, my current preset, or the 450psi???

[IMPerfection]

use the 800, according to Frazer it will work. I will be using one. I also have a Centerflag 48/3k with an output of 750 that I could run if I have to...

[IanR]

This message was received via email from frazer,

Just to clarify

A speed WILL work with fixed regs to a max output of 900 psi this will give a velocity of 275 FPS at an input from the Angel front reg of 350 psi

A fixed reg that is shagged can give an output of 1050 psi when filled to 4500 psi and this is a reg problem not a speed problem.

It is preferable to use a low pressure fixed reg as this will allow the user to use all the gas in his tank for max efficiency this is why we recommend a low pressure regulator for efficiency and consistency eg: once the fixed reg falls below it set output the velocity can be affected see examples below

fixed reg at 500 psi will have no affect on velocity until the tank is below 500 psi
fixed reg at 850 psi will have no affect on velocity until the tank is below 850 psi

All the best,

Frazer Colley,

frazer@wdp-paintball.com

[TopCourage]

whats up with playing indoor?

[TopCourage]

oh yeah..good point...forgot about that

[jtcimp00]

My centerflag preset with the input pressure of 750 psi let me get my speed down to 260 and I still dont think I have gone the lowest I can get. just an example. My friend also has a pmi tank set at 850psi and e got his to 270 and he says that isnt the full range yet either