Bolt/Ram Sticking

[Pardini]

Hellooo again. Need some Angel One advice this time. Baby's sick.

I think the ram and bolt sticks forward and keeps the exhaust valve open and it leaks down the barrel or maybe from the ram. I turned the eyes off and then could get it to fire intermittently(while it was leaking). Some times it would stop leaking sometimes not.

The first time it happened I thought it was the battery. Changed it and worked fine till I got back on the field in the middle of the 3rd or 4th game.

I can't duplicate it off the field. At first i thought maybe the exhaust valve wasn't seating but it would not fire everytime with the eyes off. There weren't any breaks in the gun and everything is clean. The bolt and ram slide to and fro under their own weight, the bolt dosen't seem to hang up on the detents.

I've checked the pressures with the gauges and have the Joy/Rage settings. I did remove a couple of shims from the LPR to get it to 58-59 psi was about 62. Think that could be it? WDP says 57 psi. Or possibly the solonoid?

Not 100% certain what happens as both times was in a game under fire and didn't have time to really check it out. Get it home then it works fine.

Any Ideas?

[BoB]

Lets cover all the basic questions.
Air system output?
Minireg pressure?
LPR pressure 58-59
Software version?
Dwell?
Does the bolt move freely when no air to the marker?
Is the exhaust valve the new style and is it in good shape?
Have you had any previous problems with the noid?
What is the voltage of the battery when the problem crops up?
Does the breech seal move around?

[Farmboy]

There is another thread like this that might help you with your problem, i think its on the 2nd page, the title is "bolt sticking and chopping" something like that...

[frazer]

you said that you removed a couple of shims from the LPR to lower the pressure, when you did do this did you first set the mini reg pressure? If you didnt then you may want to go back and check the LPR again only this time set the mini reg output to 270psi first.

frazer@wdp.tv

[Pardini]

Lets cover all the basic questions.
Air system output?
Minireg pressure?
LPR pressure 58-59
Software version?
Dwell?
Does the bolt move freely when no air to the marker?
Is the exhaust valve the new style and is it in good shape?
Have you had any previous problems with the noid?
What is the voltage of the battery when the problem crops up?
Does the breech seal move around?

1 450 psi
2 270 psi
3 2.2
4 6.5 ms

Bolt and ram move freely
Exhaust valve is the newer version, Although it did come apart once I snapped the 2 pieces back together and shot many cases w/o problem.

No previous noid problems, gun has 13,000 cycles on it.
Battery in it now has 8.2 VDC
Breech seal is new, well attached and in alignment.

I set the LPR with the mini reg at 270 psi, and double checked the pressures last night they are 270 and 58 psi.

I've read some of the later posts about the exhaust valve. Is it supposed to be permanately crimped together? When it seperated it snapped back together, so I assumed thats how it was built. It will come apart fairly easily if I tweak it slightly.

[frazer]

Exhaust valve is the newer version, Although it did come apart once I snapped the 2 pieces back together and shot many cases w/o problem.
sounds like that is not going to be helping right there
Also how fast does your air tank reg recover, it is OK checking the output pressure to see if it is at the correct pressure but have you checked on a reg tester how fast it recovers?

Frazer@wdp.tv

[karseras69]

i was told that if your exhaust valve comes apart its broken, its happened to 2 guns here

[Pardini]

The tank is 2 or 3 months old Crossfire LP, output is 475 psi. No haven't checked the recovery time. I don't see how the recovery time could be a factor when the trigger pulls are 5 or 6 seconds apart and it dosen't work.

I'll replace the exhaust valve if it's not supposed seperate easily.

The gun has been perfect up until the last couple of weekends-zero problems, except for those poor souls on the receiving end.

[BoB]

If the marker has been turned off for a few minutes and then you turn abck on, does the solenoid cycle or does it take a few pulls to get the noid to click? Yes, you will need a new exhaust valve once the break apart lile that they are finished.

[Pardini]

If the marker has been turned off for a few minutes and then you turn abck on, does the solenoid cycle or does it take a few pulls to get the noid to click? Yes, you will need a new exhaust valve once the break apart lile that they are finished.

Don't know about the solonoid, both times I've just grabbed another gun, didn't mees with the A1 till I got home and then it was working. I've shot several tanks of air though it at home w/o incident. Should the noid not be clicking until after several pulls what would that indicate?

I'll place an order for an exhaust valve on your site, should I get a guide too? Also, I see you have a great price on 68/4500 Crossfires. Any 45/4500's LP's for that price?

[TheFreak779]

this happened to me. the pin that holds the bolt to the ram was to far out. that caused the bolt to jam. once Ulf at Max gave me a new bolt it worked great!!! I love my A1

[TheFreak779]

if you take your bolt out and can tap the pin in more then i would say it is your bolt

[frazer]

Thefreak779 That would have been on one of the older bolts with the blue soft face not on one of the clear softface ones.

frazer@wdp.tv

[jguinan2]

is it hot were you live? cause if it is i know the problem EXACTLY and its common in certain areas ill tell you wat it is if you do play in hot climates(90's and above)

[Pardini]

Do tell. Was 90+ both times.

[Angel Snake]

I was just woundering, would the pressure of the paint being packed down by a Reloader B grab onto the bolt and cause it to stick, along with some other variables? Or is there enough return pressure that it would brake the friction. Just a thought.

[jguinan2]

ok well WDP has been getting a lot of feed back on this bolt sticking problem and it turns out its the Rubber square inside the breech. what happens is theres a little peice of double sided tape(low quality dollar store kind) that hold it on. when it gets hot the tape loosens and the rubber swells and the bolt grabs this and causes it to get stuck. to fix this (though it sounds like a bad idea it does nothing but lower your velocity by about 30 so turn it up when your done) Take off that rubber thing. you can just rip it off and this will solve your problem. this has happend to me a lot and if it happens to you just rip it off and put it in your pocket or something then when your done playing put it back on at the end of the day and it will stick right back on.


FYI!!!!! WDP IS COMEING OUT WITH A FIX FOR THIS VERY SOON(you can ask Ken on that one) i talked with my store about this(Splatt Attack Paintball Miami,Florida) and they said it happens all the time to Rage and you just have to bear with it untill they come out with the improved pad.

[RangerJoe]

your efficiency will go way down... since the pad seals off the breech when the air shoots up into the bolt.

[Bleda]

Or you can just reglue the pad in with some new glue if it seems to cause sticking. Also a lot of people actually have bent pins from firing the gun with out the bolt in place, this is a major cause of bolt stick.

[Pardini]

ok well WDP has been getting a lot of feed back on this bolt sticking problem and it turns out its the Rubber square inside the breech. what happens is theres a little peice of double sided tape(low quality dollar store kind) that hold it on. when it gets hot the tape loosens and the rubber swells and the bolt grabs this and causes it to get stuck. to fix this (though it sounds like a bad idea it does nothing but lower your velocity by about 30 so turn it up when your done) Take off that rubber thing. you can just rip it off and this will solve your problem. this has happend to me a lot and if it happens to you just rip it off and put it in your pocket or something then when your done playing put it back on at the end of the day and it will stick right back on.


FYI!!!!! WDP IS COMEING OUT WITH A FIX FOR THIS VERY SOON(you can ask Ken on that one) i talked with my store about this(Splatt Attack Paintball Miami,Florida) and they said it happens all the time to Rage and you just have to bear with it untill they come out with the improved pad.



I khow thats not the cause. The breech seal is new, fits perfect and is not contacting the bolt. THe adhesive is not oozing out from under it. Thats why I it replaced awhile back. Seems to me it's more due to the oil getting under it, but heat would be hard on it too.

I just replaced the exhaust valve stem and after dryfiring 3 tanks of air I got it to act up.

The bolt stays forward about 1/2 way across the feedneck and there is a leak. I just barely touch the bolt and it snaps back into battery and the leak stops. I'm thinking it's got to be the ram.

I'll try replacing the o rings tomarrow, well maybe. I'll probaly just head back over to FMA Sat. and buy a ram assy since I need to go back anyway. While dryfiring the breech knob fell off, the set screw is stripped.

[Bleda]

Sounds like your breach is mis-aligned or is overtight, have you messed with your breach pins at all? I know i tried to tighten mine a bit to remove some of the wobble and BAM instant breach sticking exactly the way you are describing.

[jpx]

k, i opened up my A1 to clean it and i took the breach, if what Bleda sead is true, then I guess my breach is unaligned aswwell, how do i aligne it again? I need this fixed quick. Any tips??? havent tried shooting the gun since but I don't want to take any risk

[Bleda]

if there is wobble in the breach, and its not the breach seal then the pins themselves are misaligned and there is no quick fix for them, if the breach doesnt wobble at all unscrew the grub screws a bit to put a little bit of the normal wobble back into it.

[Pardini]

Sounds like your breach is mis-aligned or is overtight, have you messed with your breach pins at all? I know i tried to tighten mine a bit to remove some of the wobble and BAM instant breach sticking exactly the way you are describing.

Nope, the ram and bolt slide back and forth under their own weight when the gun is de gassed. Not the detents either, because when it stays forward the bolt is not touching the detents.

So I suppose that that it's not really sticking at all, it's failing to return.

[Trigga Nometry]

Nope, the ram and bolt slide back and forth under their own weight when the gun is de gassed. Not the detents either, because when it stays forward the bolt is not touching the detents.

So I suppose that that it's not really sticking at all, it's failing to return.I have seen that happen before and when the ram was replaced, the problem was fixed.

[adw420]

I have a new A1 ( I have only shoot 1.5 cases through it ) that has just started to do the same thing. Help

[Pardini]

I'm convinced my problem is the ram. Have cleaned and lubed everything and replaced orings. Went to pick up a ram today, but they were out of stock, so it will have to wait until I return from vacation.

[Dr_Octagon]

Same exact thign happened to me today at a tourney. My gun has many cases through it. I got it less than a year ago. Now all of a suddent today it sticks on me. Its funny becasue when i would shoot it in demo mode it would work perfect but as soon as i stepped onto the field to play the tourney it would stick. Soooooo annoying

[TheRiddler303]

got the same problem last game day over here. every 3 game.

try the following if you like, cut the bolt and the side which pushes the bolt pins a bit so you minimize the risk that the bolt sticks on the detents when they are new and maybe still too "hard". use quality batteries only. i used some cheaper ones before and it may wont give enough power to the solenoid to push the rammer in front. since i done these 2 changes no more bolt stick for over 2 cases of paint !!!

[Dr_Octagon]

ITs weird becasue i never had this bad of a problem before. I mean it would stick due to some paint or somthing getting in there, but after a cleaning it worked great. This time even after cleaning it still refused to work properly. (sorry to highjack the thread but it is the same issue)

[jguinan2]

next time it happens just try what i wrote. the efficiency will not go down cause you can just put it back on the velocity will go down because the seal is gone for that time but unless you go get it checked out by a master tech or any tech(preferably master tech) then you cant really tell but try the seal thing next time if thats not the problem then get it checked out. and the bolt sticking happend to me at a tourney too as well as to some of my teammates (most of their solutions to this problem is to chuck it at a fence.....surprisingly fixxes the problems -_- )

[Bleda]

I was getting some bolt/ram stick yesterday where i would have to shake the gun to get the ram to return, i pulled the ram out and apparently had a half shell of paint shoved in the ram tube, got rid of that and bam back to normal.

[jguinan2]

its always little things that mess up the gun but theyre always easy to fix and few and far between

[frazer]

The first thing that I would do is check http://wdp.tv/newsupdate/281106-update/281106-updates.html to make sure that you have not got any of the issues described in here such as the old version bolt or the damage to the side of the body that may indicate that the breech pins have been pulled out of line by firing the marker with no bolt present. If all this is OK then check that the breech seal is glued in correctly and that the glue has not gone all gummy and soft, if it has or if in doubt you should remove the seal, the gun will run fine with the seal removed. If the problem still persists check the output pressure from your tank as a low tank output or poor flow from the tank can cause the system to be starved of air and this can result in the gun having similar symptoms as described. Also a damaged solenoid or ram can also cause similar issues so these areas should be investigated next if the problem is not easily solved by the above mentioned things.

frazer@wdp.tv

[Dr_Octagon]

I feel like my breech seal is bad. There is a grey gummy/sticky residue around it. I know you can buy one online but does it come with the adhesive? can i use a regular superglue?

[BoB]

They come with adhesive or you can re-glue your old one.

[Dr_Octagon]

Would i use regular superglue? or is there a certain adhesive that works best?

[karseras69]

super glue works fine

[Mastiff]

Sent my gun down to Ken and after a week or so its still doing the same thing..

it looks like the breach is wobbly... I have not touched the pins... knowing that I could cause more damage than good.. thats why I sent it to ken..

I have figured out a makeshift fix...

I have Tightly taped the Breach closed.. becasue of this it no longer wobbles.. and the problem doens't happen .. but I would like to see if it can be fixed for good.

[TheRiddler303]

after cuttin down the bolt and replace the battery im back with the old problem since last weekend. need to push back the bolt with my finger after put off the hopper for 3 times in 1 game at a tournament. that suc**d.

so i taked a look at my breach seal yesterday and it was a bit loose. removed it after more bolt sticks and dont had anymore problems. so it seems like it was all the time cause of the seal.

so any hints for which glue i should use that dont destroy the rubberseal?? cause i want to put it back in :smiley:
thanks

[jmac07]

Ok, seems like the problem could be:

1) square rubber seal by the breach

2) ram

3) breech being wobbly

My question, is this something WDP can come up with a solution like they did for the eye cover? This bolt stick problem is common problem...design flaw thru lack of R&D on WDPs' part? I'm curious to see if people will report continue to report this problem and the fix either they or MT have done and the result.

[KEN CRANE]

remove breach seal and shoot with paint. does it stop sticking? if so clean all old glue off body and seal and re glue with super glue or replaced with new seal. you can play with no problems if the seal is removed.it will be slightly noisy.

check for bent breach pins. when opening the breach door does it get difficult to open about 1/3 of the way open? is there a tell tale dent on the body where the breach contacts the body when fully open? if so breach pins need to be replaced.

if it still occours look at the breach when you are shooting the gun. is the breach rising higher in the rear as the bolt cycles? the pin may have worked loose from the bolt. tap the pin back in and re shoot . advise on your findings please.

[KEN CRANE]

Sent my gun down to Ken and after a week or so its still doing the same thing..

it looks like the breach is wobbly... I have not touched the pins... knowing that I could cause more damage than good.. thats why I sent it to ken..

I have figured out a makeshift fix...

I have Tightly taped the Breach closed.. becasue of this it no longer wobbles.. and the problem doens't happen .. but I would like to see if it can be fixed for good.

sorry just got back from boston and saw your email tonight. try what we suggested with the breach seal and let me know please

[TheRiddler303]

hey ken,

yes after removing the breach seal it stopped sticking for the rest of the day.
got about 3 stickings in 1 game beofre i removed it and it was gone right after i put it out of the breach.

so i will take a look if i got any super glue around here if not also need to get some new eyecovers cause they broke down, so i may also get a new seal too just to be sure.
thanks

[adw420]

Had the same problem on a new A1 , Removed the breach seal and its all good.

[bigwilly01]

If the marker has been turned off for a few minutes and then you turn abck on, does the solenoid cycle or does it take a few pulls to get the noid to click?

Bob, I have to A1's and my newer one suffers from this problem. When you turn it on sometimes it takes a few trigger pulls to get it to cycle properly. Also, with this marker I have had problems with bolt stick. Maybe you could elaborate on a possible solution. I am not to worried about it as I am not a tournament player.

[Pardini]

Wow, this thread is still alive. So I might as well post up that I finally solved the problem and it was the breech seal afterall. I posted previously that I was absolutely sure it wasn't the seal because it was fairly new, but I was wrong. I replaced the ram then the bolt started sticking more often.

Here's what was happening. This glue softened up and the seal would be pushed out of place slightly. It was being forced into the space between the frame and the breech by the gas pressure when the gun was fired. It was putting upward pressure on the breech which was binding the bolt. It was hard to spot, but once I could get the bolt to stick regularly, pushing down slightly on the breech let the bolt return. It was just the very right edge of the seal that was out of place. I noticed that when it was sticking there was absolutely no wobble or play in the breech. When the seal is properly seated there is a slight amount of play in the breech when it's locked closed.

So, Thanks all I think the solution was posted up on the first page. Should have listened and saved a few bucks. Sadly, I had several extra seals on hand the whole time. Now I have an extra ram too.

[BoB]

Bob, I have to A1's and my newer one suffers from this problem. When you turn it on sometimes it takes a few trigger pulls to get it to cycle properly. Also, with this marker I have had problems with bolt stick. Maybe you could elaborate on a possible solution. I am not to worried about it as I am not a tournament player.


What is your dwell set at? New battery?

[TheRiddler303]

Bob, I have to A1's and my newer one suffers from this problem. When you turn it on sometimes it takes a few trigger pulls to get it to cycle properly. Also, with this marker I have had problems with bolt stick. Maybe you could elaborate on a possible solution. I am not to worried about it as I am not a tournament player.

also same for me here. new batteries in it. dwell at 6.5
but it only happens with eyes off and no air on it for about 5-15 trigger pulls. then the solenoid gets "active"

[pbstr4l]

I was playing Xball yesterday and had the Exact problem your all having.

My tank output pressure is around 420, so im going to try to adjust it to 500-550 and see if that fixes my issue.. if not looks like I might try taking off that breach seal and see how things go.

[BoB]

also same for me here. new batteries in it. dwell at 6.5
but it only happens with eyes off and no air on it for about 5-15 trigger pulls. then the solenoid gets "active"

So you put air and paint on and turn on the marker and it works fine?

[pbstr4l]

yea.. Riddler that comment didnt make much sence..

But bob any thoughts on my issue?

[BoB]

When it starts to act up again, remove the breech seal and see what happens.

[bigwilly01]

What is your dwell set at? New battery?

Dwell 6.5 ms as per joy/rage settings. Always new batteries. You don't own 2 a1's without first checking the batteries. Silly BOB!! LOL. I was looking for you to elaborate on your previous hunch. But that is okay. I may try a breech seal on this one. And before you ask.

Tank output at 525
Mini reg 270
LPR 59
and so on joy and rage settings on all others. yada yada yada

[TheRiddler303]

So you put air and paint on and turn on the marker and it works fine?

yes
with air and paint on and also eyes on, no solenoid problems

with eyes off and NO paint it may take about 1-2 shots SOMETIMES that the solenoid is active but only happend for about 2-3 times since i got it now.
if i turn on the gun without air and set the eyes off, just to have fun with trigger the gun :smiley: it mostly takes time to hear the cycle of the solenoid. most about 10 pulls. then its active.

well sure you would never play without air and paint, BUT i dont think its normal. never had any marker before where this happens. from older angels, ego whatever....

[jguinan2]

SEEEEEEE i told you....but NOOOOOO no one EVER listens to JP -_-.......... anyway best of luck in the future with it.

[BoB]

It sounds like you both have bad or failing solenoids. If you want them properly diagnosed you should send them in.

[TheRiddler303]

Bob, can i give it to Ulf at Maxs Germany or where should i send it?
thanks

[BoB]

Ulf is your fuzzy little man peach, he should be able to take care of you.

[TheRiddler303]

thanks bob
will go and visit him the next days
ulf im comin :peace: hahaha

[maniac]

the problem is in bolt 100% insurance, is the steel pin that is taken off slightly of bolt. the solution is to stick with crazy glue the steel pin or with a hammer to beat to him with well-taken care of to the pin. and WDP mistake of the pin corrects that that leaves bolt slightly

[TwiztidIllusion]

did anyone understand that? not being rude or flaming but i have no idea what you just said

[tgallo]

sounds like the metal pin is coming off his bolt

[maniac]

the problem is that the steel pin of bolt leaves

[maniac]

the problem is that the steel pin of bolt leaves and is necessary to put glue to him

[BoB]

If the bolt has come loose you will want to replace the bolt.

[maniac]

my paintball gun is new has one week and my equipment this sponsored by WDP, a problem is the pin of bolt

[BoB]

Then you should shoot WDP an email frazer at wdp.tv

[piggsy]

I've had bolt stick pretty much since i got it, thought it was broken detents but now i have the 3 piece i thought it would go away but i was getting this problem alot yesterday, tried the basic fixes like removing breech seal and no joy, turning the dwell to 4ish seems to help but i will check the tank output, as the reg used to be on a 0.8 bottle annd is now on a 1.1 bottle. I dont think the breech pins or the bolt pin is the problem so that leaves my pressures and tank pressure or ram? will keep you guys posted.