accuracy

[wadd]

Can someone please explain this to me? I don't see how it works.

I've been told by quite a few people that the angel is not a very accurate marker, and that a lot of other high end markers are much more accurate, like the cockers, matrix, and timmy.

What's different about them? I know the cocker is closed bolt, but that's the only real difference I see. To me, if you put a 14 inch Boomstick on any marker, it's going to be very accurate. All bolts are designed relatively the same, all paintballs are basically loaded the same way, so what are people talking about when they say that 1 marker is more accurate than another? I understand if you're comparing barrels and paint, but I don't see the marker as having that much of an affect on accuracy.

Along the same lines, a lot of people talk about how other markers shoot flatter and have a better trajectory than other markers. What does this refer to? Unless you have a crooked barrel, the paintball has to come out in a straight line. I mean, it's not going to come out of the barrel and then magically jump up and fly at a 15 degree angle, just because you shot it from a spyder and not a cocker. I don't get it.

So, can someone please explain the accuracy and trajectory arguments for different markers? I just don't see the marker as affecting these 2 very much.
Thanks,
Jeremy

[Digitalpunk]

You're right about pretty much everything there. Anyone who says different is just ignorant of basic physics.

Digital

[Jedrith]

You aren't going to get huge differences. But the cocker fires when its closed and has a longer delay before the bolt opens again, so the pressure isn't dissipating up the feed neck or affecting the ball in any other way. I really don't know if this does anything in angels.

[wadd]

Jedrith, wouldn't that make a bigger impact on consistency and efficiency than accuracy or trajectory? if air is escaping up the feed neck, then you're going to have a lower velocity, that' it. That wouldn't affect flight path or accuracy. That's what I can't understand.
Jeremy

[jasyn]

wadd .. you are correct sah!

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/balistic/closedopen.shtml

[wadd]

It just really sucks, because I play at a field that's ran by high school/ college kids (I'm a college kid), and they all basically play follow the leader. A few months ago, if you didn't shoot a matrix, there was something wrong with you. And now, if you don't shoot a timmy, you'll never be a decent player. And if someone is talking about wanting a high end marker, and I even mention an angel, everyone talks about how my marker is a waste of money, isn't accurate, has a bad trajectory, and shoots slower than the timmy. Shoots slower than a timmy, maybe, but I can't figure out what they're talking about as far as the accuracy and trajectory. I just don't get it.
Jeremy

[Randal]

I understand what you are saying. I am from Western Canada, where we have about 30% of all players shooting timmys, cause Mike Carey from Calgary/ Oakland Assassins does. He is the local paintball god.

If you don't shoot a timmy, or cocker, then you are not cool and yes I hear all that too.

So I just continue to shot them out game after game after game and laugh at them when I bunker them , and as I pass behind the bunker I find them with their finger stuck down the barrel wondering why their eCocker contraption is slicing balls..

Yeah.. just suck it up and don't listen to them.. its just the famous chevy - ford - dogde argument. If it works for you.. then its the best.

Suck it up, ignore the dweebs. or if you must be the coolist kid on the block... buy a Speed. :)

[wadd]

The sad thing is, around here, it's not like everyone is following some great pro player. They follow a kid who is the best at the field, and runs it, but he plays for a rookie team. he's not awesome, he's just better than everyone else around here, so everyone assumes that whatever he says must be right. Here's the way it works around here. You must shoot:

timmy
16 inch JT barrel
Pure Energy tank
THOR reg
DYE tank cover
egg2

That's it. If that's not your exact set up, then you're using equipment that only a moron would use. Then there's me:

lcd
12 inch powerlyte
angel air

So, obviously, I'm the field idiot. I try not to let the constant comments get to me, but after a while, I just get sick of it. I'm working on getting a speed, but even when I mentioned the idea to a guy at the field, the rumor quickly spread that I was wasting my money on another stupid angel and that I would never get anywhere in the sport unntil I grew up and realized I needed a timmy to get myself anywhere. That's what makes me mad. People around here think that unless you shoot that exact set up, you'll never get anywhere in the sport, and you're just wasting your money. Not to mention, all the younger players are basically being corrupted into thinking that unless you shoot a timmy, you're an idiot. SO now even the kids who shoot stingrays and piranahs are getting in on it because they believe what the other guys tell them to. It just gets really annoying. it's like personal skill has been thrown out the window, and all that matters is that you shoot a red to black fade timmy.
Jeremy

[Doug]

If you look around the internet, there are a good number of sites where they did "accuracy" testing of markers with a great varience in scientific usefulness.

From the ones that were good studies, you learn this.

With a good barrel, almost ALL markers of any reasonable quality ALL have the same side to side (horizontal) accuracy. They show the same spread on the target left to right. The up / down accuracy is where they can vary. They vary based on CONSISTENCY of VELOCITY.

This comes from a good air source, a good regulator, good pneumatics, and consistent flow through the gun. Closed bolt guns have an innate advantage, giving up rate of fire for a bit more velocity consistency. However, GOOD open bolt guns such as an angel are consistent enough even from an open bolt that you do not see a difference in the tests.

That's what REAL testing has shown. Physics backs it up. Markers don't make things more accurate, but they can make it more velocity consistent (up to down accuracy... or more specifically... more precision)

That Physics / Engineering Guy

Doug

[C.Carles-AOG]

Except for your "closed bolt has an advantage" line all was rather accurate. jasyn, thanks, you saved me the time of putting that link up, all should read it (you too Doug :tongue:)
wadd, tell them to read a basic high school physics book. lemmings...

[captncrunch]

the only reason why an angel could be considered less accurate is because it has more kick than a timmy, especially a matrix, but that comes down to the user.

[C.Carles-AOG]

supposedly the SPEED has addressed that issue.

[boogt]

If you think this rookie player is the best at the field and everybody follows him......change your game and your intensity not your gun!! I shot some of the ****tiest guns on earth my game was still there. chew em up spit em out and dont step in it later!!

[boogt]

wow self editting I didnt know it did that

[Doug]

Just FYI on the closed bolt vs. open bolt thing. That's not one of the best comparisons out there. They only compared slow firing (one shot per 2 seconds). Get the rate up there faster (like 5-8 per second) and then you'll see a 'theoretical' difference if you take a crappy open bolt gun and a crappy closed bolt gun. However, as I said, with good guns, the open bolt overcomes 'theoretical' problems and performs effectively the same.

It's mostly in the user. Weight can be important if you don't hold the gun steady, kick as well, barrel to paintball bore match of course, velocity consistency always. All of these are more important than the other factors in determining YOUR accuracy.

Marker types are MUCH more differentiated by their...

Rates of fire
Reliability
Weight
Spiffy features
Looks

You'll do much better in your paintgun choice if you choose based on these factors, as all top end guns end up pretty even in the 'accuracy' tests, given good barrels and good air systems that provide good pressure consistency.

[C.Carles-AOG]

We've thought of almost everything :evilgrin:
Matt is a great webmaster/admin.

[ccrawley]

i think that most negative comments that spurt out of people's mouths regarding this marker or that (especially the angel) are based on pure speculation or pure jealousy. the angel is not the best selling marker by accident. and in this sport, i think everybody knows that. admitting it is the hard part for most people.
all that matters is that your gun (angel or whatever) works for you.
i find that a lot of people can a find a good reason not to buy something just because it is more expensive...if you have never used something, how can you say it sucks ?

[SCM]

Jealousy is the main reason people say things against the angel. They can't afford it, but badly want it. Why else would people feel the need to tell people they don't like there gun?

The lower price on the Speed is why so many people talk about how there never like WDP until now. That is becuase now they can afford it, so they aren't jealous.

[silverdust03]

These people are obviously sheep. Paintballers are pretty trendy as far as gear goes. People usually go with what other people tell them is good. If everyone wants to shoot a timmy let them, 6 months from now they will have something different anyway.

[C.Carles-AOG]

Very true. The Matrix is on fire right now. Blah...

[5150]

Originally posted by wadd
all paintballs are basically loaded the same way


Not this gun. . . .

http://members.aol.com/skatelab/LAOPEN/193.jpg

[silverdust03]

What the hell is that?

[wadd]

The paint still drops down into the gun from above it. nothing different there.
Jeremy

[TomR199]

i Agree with silverdust03

A year or so ago soo many people were shooting LCDs. Now look around and many more people shoot timmys. Not saying timmy is a bad gun, I never shot one yet , but im sure they are awesome, But its just a trend thing. Seems like now some people that used to own angel say they suck and timmys are way better. When they get their next gun tho they will say its soo much better than the timmy.

[C.Carles-AOG]

I shot all sorts of Timmy's even the vaunted GZ ones. I didn't like them. The only marker I would even consider other than an Angel is an Excalibur. I have shot 99% of all markers out there and worked/tuned them as well. Only that gun stands out to me as a viable alternative.

[Gary1]

An associate of mine has a Viking....Man, it screams...

[C.Carles-AOG]

The Excal is awesome. The parts are well built. I hate two things though: 9v batteries and it has a design flaw that if you remove the LPR to put it back you always chop O-rings. I found that one out the hard way.

[Talon]

I run into the same thing down here in South Florida...there seem to be two types of people down here, those who love Angels and those who hate them. The ones who love them praise their speed, accuracy, dependability, ease of upkeep, and beauty. Those who don't are often bitching and moaning about how they aren't accurate, never will be accurate, and belong on a wall not at the field. For the most part these Angel antagonists have never held one, never shot one, and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

It all comes down, once again, to personal preference. If you set up your marker the way you want it and are comfortable with it...then you will be accurate with it.

[Jedrith]

Not flaming other markers, but the angels simplicity and ease of maintance sold me. I hate the upkeep of things. I thought the matrix was too labor intensive so I didn't get it. I also thought the timmy was just a spyder with a solenoid, and if I get any flames back, you don't belong on this forum.

[Wormie]

I agree all the gun needs is a few drops of oil every now and then and cleaning up the outside. How much easier can it get.

[Wormie]

I forgot to talk about accuracy. To me accuracy has to do with paint to bore match and the consistancy of you r air supple. If the paint is matched up well and you have a consistant amount of air pressure the gun should be accurate. Just my opinon.