A1 Q-loader video

[Fargbollen]

I have an A1 + Q-loader video filmed and it's coming out in the next few days.

IT WILL BLOW YOUR MINDS

[boostmonkey]

This should be good....

[karseras69]

doubt it has anything to do with thw whole calculation thing on PBN :D
good to see someone is doing the math. good luck

[bajafx4]

What a tease! Don't ever post a thread like this again!!!

How many days is a "few"?

[boostmonkey]

doubt it has anything to do with thw whole calculation thing on PBN :D
good to see someone is doing the math. good luck

What calculation thing is going on on PBN? Does anyone over there even know HOW TO DO math? :notsure:

[Fargbollen]

Here's the first video.

We used last sumers' paint and it was a bit swelled and stuck partially in the feed port of the Q-loader. The manufacturer says to use normal or small bore paint for maximum feed rate but this was all we had available on short notice. Swelled old paint but we still had only one chop.
This is at Dwell 7, 60 psi on the LPR and all stock internals.

Sorry guys, we'll make more videos with better sound, better paint and so on and even faster. But as a first video it's pretty ok and gives you an idea of what the gun is capable of. At least we don't have a scuba attached to and or dangerous-sounding leaks. Unlike some other videos out there...

http://media.putfile.com/Angel-One--Qloader-with-691-oldtomahawk-field-paint-w-eyes-off--Hypersports

[Big Boy]

What mode did you have it in?

[boostmonkey]

Wow, very nice vid.

That was 30bps SUSTAINED ladies and gentleman. Your VLocity cannot do that.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c115/superboostmonkey/paintball/30bpsA1qloader.jpg

[Trigga Nometry]

Wow, very nice vid.

That was 30bps SUSTAINED ladies and gentleman. Your VLocity cannot do that.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c115/superboostmonkey/paintball/30bpsA1qloader.jpgYeah but what is the point if that is in demo mode but made to let it shoot paint (eyes off)? Isn't demo mode going to force the 30bps? I already know the A1 can cycle that fast and the QLoader can feed paint that fast. Get it to where the eye logic and all comes into play then I'll be impressed.

[WuBuBu]

doesn't work for me...

[Fargbollen]

doesn't work for me...
The gun or the video? :)

[Fargbollen]

Yeah but what is the point if that is in demo mode but made to let it shoot paint (eyes off)? Isn't demo mode going to force the 30bps? I already know the A1 can cycle that fast and the QLoader can feed paint that fast. Get it to where the eye logic and all comes into play then I'll be impressed.

Yes, I agree. There will be a video of an unlimited ramp mode with eyes on. It may even be faster that way as I find the Demo mode isn't really unlimited but rather 31 bps max.

This was on demo mode with disabled eyes (you'll have to figure out for yourselves how to do that) and Dwell at 7, LPR at 60. If I lower Dwell and increase LPR pressure it'll pneumatically cycle faster. It may also go higher on unlimited custom ramp with eyes on (at Hard 12 setting) than on demo. How much faster I don't know yet, but let's find out.


BTW Trig, Q-loaders are only like $75 nowdays in the US. If I got one shipped overseas for twice that, can't you get one to put on your G7 FLY with Tadao? It should shoot as fast as the gun cycles (43?...)
You know what I want -I'm a speed freak. ;)

[karseras69]

video isnt working for me, can it be hosted on a different site ? youtube maybe ? thnx

[WuBuBu]

yea, the video isn't loading, constantly connecting.

[Jeroensplash]

then download it from there. Thats what I did.
Works fine than.

J

[Oceana]

Thats sick, Fargbollen :)

[Fargbollen]

Thanks!
But my next video will be even sicker.

[Hep]

nice job noobs

[Fargbollen]

LOL!!!

It cracks me up every time I hear that. I think I'll keep the avatar indefinitely.

[haroldenzo]

Damn, that was stupid fast. I'm sold, where can I buy one of those other than from the manufacturer site and what parts do I need to get? Thanks

[Farmboy]

hollyyy crap!
I want a Q-Loader

[Fargbollen]

Just so you all know, a bunch of hater-trollers are trying really hard to ruin my original thread on pbn.
How unexpected... not.

[bajafx4]

PBN link?

[josh_hill]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2013685

It got closed.

[Fargbollen]

More to the point, the worst haters/trollers on pbn thread got BANNED yeterday!

Can you believe it, they actually had a thread on the FEP forum where they openly planned hostile attacks on the WDP forum, direct links to my thread for easy access, how to get at me and some other guys and "send us WDP guys back to our holes". Not to mention derogatory language and such. How stupid can you get? On a publicly accessible thread! Not to mention juvenile and all that. But the sheer arrogance of planning it openly is astounding.
The ring leaders have now been banned. I don't know for how long, but they were banned yesterday, so one day at least, probably more. I bet that put a big dent in their plans for world domination. Not to mention their swollen egos.

See, pbn works sometimes.

Please all AOG:ers, refrain from going into the FEP forum on pbn to rub it in. Just let it be. I'm just happy the moderators acted on this.

[Farmboy]

I'm still waiting for the 2nd video! ;)

[karseras69]

me2 :)

[hammar]

I don't have an A1 but i have a qloader w/8 pods, i'm getting a tadao installed in either my g7 or a4 fly... i'll shoot a vid once it's done

[Farmboy]

thank you, i would suggest getting it in the G7 model. And take it asap! :)

[Fargbollen]

I don't have an A1 but i have a qloader w/8 pods, i'm getting a tadao installed in either my g7 or a4 fly... i'll shoot a vid once it's done

Sounds good. Please do.

I have an A4 FLY I also test with (just no video made yet, only sound files) so it would make sense for you to test on a G7 to widen the spectrum. But that's up to you of course.

Just be extra careful when handling the gun because at FA and a Q-loader it could be dangerous and could go ot of control.
I suggest you get someone else to shoot the video and only one person handling the gun and never pointing it at someone, as if it was a real firearm. Use only a safe enclosed and private area to shoot it. And make sure everyone present has goggles on all the time.
This is how I've handled it.

[RangerJoe]

Its like a machine gun!

[Chunkym0nkey]

More to the point, the worst haters/trollers on pbn thread got BANNED yeterday!

Can you believe it, they actually had a thread on the FEP forum where they openly planned hostile attacks on the WDP forum, direct links to my thread for easy access, how to get at me and some other guys and "send us WDP guys back to our holes". Not to mention derogatory language and such. How stupid can you get? On a publicly accessible thread! Not to mention juvenile and all that. But the sheer arrogance of planning it openly is astounding.
The ring leaders have now been banned. I don't know for how long, but they were banned yesterday, so one day at least, probably more. I bet that put a big dent in their plans for world domination. Not to mention their swollen egos.

See, pbn works sometimes.

Please all AOG:ers, refrain from going into the FEP forum on pbn to rub it in. Just let it be. I'm just happy the moderators acted on this.

Got a link to the FEP thread with the planned attacks?

[karseras69]

Got a link to the FEP thread with the planned attacks?

it was in their OT thread.

any new vids Fargbollen ?

[Fargbollen]

Got a link to the FEP thread with the planned attacks?


Yes I do, it's the FEP OT thread just like karseras69 says. But I won't post it here and please don't start a war over there. It's been settled already as far as I'm concerned.

[JDemonpbt]

I want to see vids of the Unlimited Ramping!

[Fargbollen]

Me and my bro will be making more videos tomorrow.

Video #1: Stock A1 with custom built ramp and eyes on
Video #2: A4 FLY with lightened internals and unlimited V-chip ramp

But before we post them we want to be sure it's something worth showing, more than just the same as the last video. This means faster than 34 bps or as fast as 34, or 30 bps with eyes on which would in effect be faster cycling than the 34 bps Automag with no delays and no eyes that holds the actual ball shooting record today.
The last recording we made with the A1 it shot 30 bps with reballs, Q-loader and eyes on. Since the board doesn't let you set the eye delay directly we have no idea of the actual delay at the highest paint setting, so this could be higher than 1 ms, certainly higher than the 0 ms you can set on the V-chip we have in the A4 FLY. This means we may not get this gun to shoot faster than 30 even though it probably can cycle faster.
We'll see. We have yet to test the gun with full stock/recommended LPR pressure and this may well affect maximum bps. But so far the gun shot exactly the same speed with eyes on as with eyes disables as shown in the previous video. This indicates that the maximum pneumatic cycling speed is higher than 30.

With the A4 FLY we've been up to the same speed as the Automag, but only on a sound file recording. We'll see if we can duplicate it tomorrow and catch it on video. The gun only shot 25 bps last time we were making a video which was very strange. Since then we've found two things about the gun that affect the speed to various degrees.
1. the Solenoid wire was party cut/off/torn and came off completely when I unplugged it from the board. I've re-wired and re-soldered it so it will not be a problem anymore.
2. The FA mode was capped at 25 and the first time we recorded just sound we used a maxed out ramp mode that seemed like FA but wasn't really and it was uncapped.

[karseras69]

sounds promising. im a certain that the A1 with ideal settings can pass 32-34 Bps. hope you catch it on video for all the haters out there.

[Fargbollen]

Thanks. We'll see how it goes.

However it does seem like the Q-loader simply won't let any gun shoot faster than 34 bps. Fastest feed so far we've seen is 33.8 with the A4 FLY and 30.8 with the A1 which is probably due to a 30 bps cap on all available variants of ramp modes on the stock board. But here are ways to test unlimited on true semi so I'll look into that.

[Chunkym0nkey]

Yes I do, it's the FEP OT thread just like karseras69 says. But I won't post it here and please don't start a war over there. It's been settled already as far as I'm concerned.

I wasn't going to start a war, I just wanted to see what they said.

[Fargbollen]

I wasn't going to start a war, I just wanted to see what they said.
It's not that difficult to find, check the OT thread in the FEP forum on pbn. Start somewhere in the middle. But really, you don't want to see it, you'll just get mad.

[Fargbollen]

Sorry guys, today we couldn't make a video due to technical reasons. Camera was not fully working and the available air started to run too low before we could get everything to work.
But we did learn some very vital information about the Q-loader system from the test shooting we did. And I did get my A4 FLY shooting above 25 bps again. A very even 32 bps to be precise.

But what vital information am I talking about?
Well, if you see the 30+ shooting videos on www.qloader.com you'll notice the fastest they ever shoot is 34 bps. (one says 36 but if you goldwave it it's also 34).
So is this in fact a limit that no guns can ever cross? And how come we've had such a hard time duplicating the 34 mark? Is it the gun or the hopper or what?
Also why did we not get the A1 to shoot above 30.8 bps last time?
These things me and my brother have been banging ou heads bloody against for quite some time now. Why the **** can't we get the Angels shooting as fast as that old crappy Automag? No offense meant to Automag owners, but I mean really! You know what I mean. Why? I've thought it was the hopper simply not feeding fast enough, but I had no clear proof of this. My brother has said it was the guns simply not cycling as fast as we thought they would. So which is it?
All this will be revealed.

The dark truth about the old Q-loader videos
A Q-loader is powered by a spring coil that you can preset for a specific tension by turning it with a removable crank and then you assemble the pod. In the manual it states that you are not to use more than 16 turns.
At 16 turns we get about 26 bps with an A1 or A4 FLY with eyes on and reballs. The old videos made by Q-loader enthusiasts as well as the company themselves show Vikings shoting just above 30 and an Automag RT at 34 bps and they compare this to a HALO, which is much slower and most of all the feed is much more uneven. But was it really a true and fair comparison?
I though when I started these tests that if a company states than the hopper is to be run at a specified maximum setting, then when they make videos comparing a competing product they would actually use their intended working setting for that. That is 16 turns of the spring. However, I thought wrong, because they didn't keep with their own maximum safe limit. It is obvious after todays' tests that they had those Q-loaders at an extremely high number of spring load turns. 25 turns or more.

And THIS is the key to shooting 34 bps!

You see, today we shot at 20 turns with my A4 FLY, it shot exactly the same speed as the unlimited ramp A1 (30,3-30.8 bps), when we used 22 turns the FLY shot 32. See the increments?
26 bps at 16 turns
28 bps at 18 turns
30 bps at 20 turns
32 bps at 22 turns
Guess what will happen next time we test with 25 turns...

Note that these speeds are with eyes on. If we match the blind mehcanical Automag 34 bps the guns will be proven to be not equally fast but in fact pneumatically faster. Also it's looking promising that the Q-loader setting gave the same reults on both guns, this indicates that this was what was limiting the A1 at unlimited ramp with eyes on, not a board/program cap but in fact the maximum hopper speed at the spring load used.

Why haven't we tried 25 turns already?
My brother's handled all the Q-loader tweaking and setups so far, I guess given that he's the mech cocker tech of us and I'm the more expreienced Angel tech this was a natural distribution of work and responsibility. For safety reasons he's been holding back on the spring turns. Partly because we thught it should work regardless, and if we load it too much it might simply break apart and a loaded spring like this can cause serious injury. Next time we'll use protective equipment to avoid such injury. And I don't care anymor if we break a Q-pod doing this. It'll be worh it just to settle the score once and for all.

So there it is, we just proved that what's been holding us back was the hopper setting.
This means we will now be able to finally make that video. We might even go over 25 spring turns and by that possibly beyond the 34 bps. But duplicating the 34 is the current goal and I feel very confident that with this new insight we will reach it and we will get it on video in the upcoming week.

[afortuna]

Go Automags. I own both an Automag (Ule, X-valve, ULT, mech) and an 05 Speed with Tadao. They've been doing some good things on Automags.org in regards to using electro pneumatics to fire the trigger. Probably brings the Automag up to Angel standards. Can the spring be replaced in the Q and if so, would a stronger spring make it load faster?

[Fargbollen]

Go Automags. I own both an Automag (Ule, X-valve, ULT, mech) and an 05 Speed with Tadao.
Cool. I hope you didn't take my earlier comment as trashing on Automags. I've played with Mags too and before WDP made Angels they sold Automags. Everyone did back then.


Can the spring be replaced in the Q and if so, would a stronger spring make it load faster?

I think the plastic parts will break before the stock sprig wll be overloaded. So there isn't really any use for a stronger spring. The stock one has plenty of power, if you have the guts to crank it up enough.

[josh_hill]

That's some good logic there, Fargbollen. Can't wait to see the next vid!
Now go forth and amaze us!

[afortuna]

Cool. I hope you didn't take my earlier comment as trashing on Automags. I've played with Mags too and before WDP made Angels they sold Automags. Everyone did back then.


I took it as jealousy:) No problems. When I first got into paintball, the best markers were the Automag and Autococker. Kingman hadn't even entered the paintball market in California, to the best of my knowledge.

I get you on the spring issue. I'm just thinking about going above 34 bps. Ultimately, silly really, because you can't play it that fast on most fields or any tournamnent. Still cool to do.

[crownsk8er]

I think the plastic parts will break before the stock sprig wll be overloaded. So there isn't really any use for a stronger spring. The stock one has plenty of power, if you have the guts to crank it up enough.


so whos to say that we cant fab up a metal spring and lower q loader portion retainer for thestronger spring?

[karseras69]

so whos to say that we cant fab up a metal spring and lower q loader portion retainer for thestronger spring?

precisely what i was thinking. and this could take you past the 34 bps "barrier". good luck with this.

[Fargbollen]

Sure, if you want to try it then absolutely just do it. It would be geat if it works. Me I'm stickng with the stock spring for the time being, because we haven't maxed that one out yet.

If you custom mod a Q-pod be extra careful with loaded sharp spring ends, because snapping loose when they're loaded they can cut you bad. As in to the bone. No, really, I'm not kidding, I got snagged once and it was like a sarp knife cut the palm of my hand. I was just lucky it didn't cut deeper than just through the skin. Use protective equipent like welders' gloves and wear paintball goggles when loading a custom spring like this.
And expect that the Q-pod might break if you put a stroger spring in it than intended.
But then you can always get spares from qloader.com.

[Fargbollen]

so whos to say that we cant fab up a metal spring and lower q loader portion retainer for thestronger spring?

Sure, why not. Can you make this? Do you have a Q-loader pod to experiment on?

[crownsk8er]

i cant make it, but im sure their is someone who can

[Trigga Nometry]

Can't you just test the theory of the Qloader holding you back by letting the Qloader unload dry (without being hooked up to a gun), yes I know it is not recommended? This will give you an indication of how fast the Qloader can feed on it's own. The last time I did this.....by accident lol....it was to say the least, much faster than my Boosted/Cheetah'ed Halo for sure. I did not take any numbers because, well let's just say I made quite the mess lol.

Also, a note about the spring tension on the Qloader, if it is too high and you brittle paint, there is no use even trying it. The spring tension will just crush the paint all on it's own. That is one of the drawbacks of the Qloader. As you stated, it is all spring tension baby. It is like taking a hammer to the stack to load the balls into the feedneck.

[RickA4]

Can someone help me out? can't view the vid, it's constantly loading.. HELP!!!

[Fargbollen]

Can't you just test the theory of the Qloader holding you back by letting the Qloader unload dry (without being hooked up to a gun), yes I know it is not recommended? This will give you an indication of how fast the Qloader can feed on it's own.
This is what we first based our equations on that we posted on the old pbn thread. It's also the reason why we had such problems until now to reach the speeds shown in the old vids. The extremely fast free feed of the Q-loader fooled us and made us look for other reasons for the fire rate not reaching the speeds we were after. Tweaking the gun settings instead of just adding more turns on the spring which would have solved it from the start. If we'd thought less and just done it we'd have had that 34 bps video already.

Just like re-inventing the wheel, we've found that there is indeed a difference between free feed and feed on gun, just like some have always stated. Just like we should have known all along. Free feed with a Q-loader at 20 turns is indeed 100 bps. But it's far from that on-gun due to how the mechanics of the hopper/pod works.
Feed rate on gun is as stated 32 at 22 spring turns with heavily lubricated reballs. It will be 34 somewhwere around 24-26 turns.


The last time I did this.....by accident lol....it was to say the least, much faster than my Boosted/Cheetah'ed Halo for sure. I did not take any numbers because, well let's just say I made quite the mess lol.
We've done that too and it's very impressive. But it just won't be the same on the gun. It's even possible that the cheetah is faster between two shots on-gun but just won't feed as consistently at that speed.


Also, a note about the spring tension on the Qloader, if it is too high and you brittle paint, there is no use even trying it. The spring tension will just crush the paint all on it's own. That is one of the drawbacks of the Qloader. As you stated, it is all spring tension baby. It is like taking a hammer to the stack to load the balls into the feedneck.
Yes. I noticed. ;)

[Fargbollen]

Ok, next attempt is now scheduled to Friday this week.
Keep fingers crossed. I'll post a vid as soon as possible after that.

Hopefully we won't just come away with a broken pod and bleeding cuts from a rampaging spring coil. :)


Until then, just to show we really are still working on this here's the only useful recording we could make at the last test we did during easter.
Sorry, it's just a sound file. This one's the A4 FLY at 31-32 bps.
http://media.putfile.com/A4-FLY-with-Q-loader

[Fargbollen]

Newsflash! A4 "X1" FLY breaks the 34 BPS barrier!

I couldn't wait for Friday so I went by the shop, wound up the Q-loader and shot it again. And it seems we were right.

Now hear this:
http://media.putfile.com/A4-FLY--V-board--Q-loader--fastest-electronic-paintball-gun-on-earth
In the immortal words of Agent Smith; It is the sound of the inevitable.

Yes, that's a clear full second 34,5 bps! And yes that's a clear 37,3 bps between two shots. At least 37 that is, I wasn't even looking for higher peaks -that one was just the first shot-to shot I measured.

So, just to be all clear on this here:
This is a full electro paintball gun with normal playable settings, eyes on, no leaks, good efficiency, no dropoff, no Scuba tank, no Bulls***. Just straightup performance. It shoots reballs at 34,5 bps for a full second and peaks at 37 bps.

Within the parameters given, as of this day it is proven to be the fastest full electro paintball gun currently in existence ever to be mass produced.

Angels rule all. Period.

Videos of A4 FLY and A1 guns will be shot on Friday as scheduled. I just wanted to give you this news first so you know what to expect.

[RangerJoe]

jeeeeeeeeeeeeez

[joboo]

Music to my ears!!

[boostmonkey]

:worthy:

[crownsk8er]

id be better with nylon. lol

[Mavrick]

Hot damn!

[Fargbollen]

My Bro, Flash, had this idea yesterday after we tested the extra wound up Q-loader.
One of my pods has a broken stopper/bumper, that's the one that seemed to feed faster so that's the one we've been using. The broken stopper we replaced early on with a small o-ring and that seems to work fine. Only, as it is now, this stops us from winding up more turns because it deforms and jams at the spring load of 25 turns. The original part might not stop there.
We'll test the other hopper at max turns as well as moving the stop from that pod to the other to see if that allows us to add a turn or two more.

So it's quite possible this is not the end result after all. It is entirely possible that we can get this gun to shoot even faster. As the peak is 37 at this time there does seem to be more speed in the gun to be had if we only add more hopper feed.

Also, the speeds we've recorded are with reballs. Even with lubrication rubber balls are not as slippery and feed optimal as the real paint the Q-loader was built for.
So with hard real paint the feed might be higher with a couple bps.

These factors point to a possibility of even higher fire rates. We'll just have to see how it turns out.


Also note that although this is an A4 FLY, the originally intended test was for the A1, which is why I posted this under the A1 forum in the first place. There will be another video with a fully loaded Q-loader and an A1. So far both these guns have seemed to be the same speed in previous test with lower spring load. I expect the A1 will also shoot around 34 bps. The difference being that it can do it at lower LPR pressure.

[boostmonkey]

Any more news?

[Fargbollen]

Yes. After the tech course last weekend I got some special A1 software from JR. I've flashed it into my A1 for shooting a new video.

[|ZooT]

Did you do any 'dry' tests with the beta software yet?

[demiruyar]

Hmm beta software:)? Farg&zoot could you guys be little more spesific on the beta software.
New eye logic?
Uncapped ramping modes?
Those 2 questions would be enough for me.I am not intrested in the other options that the software has right know:)

[Fargbollen]

Hmm beta software:)? Farg&zoot could you guys be little more spesific on the beta software.
New eye logic?
Uncapped ramping modes?
Those 2 questions would be enough for me.I am not intrested in the other options that the software has right know:)

As you may know the 2.2 software is overclocked and already faster than the program version I used for my earlier video and sound recordings. Meaning the gun will be shooting even faster than before with that already.
And it's already got the improved eye logic.
Even the first program version had uncapped ramping, it's just a matter of figuring out how to set it up. Please be careful doing this though, uncapped is not safe to shoot people with and illegal on tournaments and almost all fields nowdays.
Take care and do not cause injury on another player. If you do, be aware that a gun set like this and used together with a Q-loader (only time it really becomes dangerous) does not happen by itself and is no accident, it can only be intentional and deliberate and neither I or WDP will be held responsible for misuse of this.
I treat my Angels set to unlimited ramping as real weapons when doing these tests. You should too or there will be injuries.

I've got v2.3 in my A1 now.
It's not a Beta really as it won't be released to the public. It's more like a Tech only version of 2.2 made to squeeze out even more speed but probably without some of the otherwise standard safeguards put in the other software to prevent the gun from locking up in full auto or other nasty things you don't ever want happening at a tournament or even a practice.
It's for tech use only and no I can't share it.

[demiruyar]

No probem farg,thanks for answering my questions.

[Technix2002]

How many have decided to hang on to their A4 Flys after hearing that audio clip of it shoting 34bps (albeit with reball)? It's a shame we couldn't have seen a video of it.

[Fargbollen]

Don't worry, I'll make a video of it when I have the time. I've just had too much stuff to do lately (2 jobs and all) to have the time to make a good quality video of it. A poor quality vid from a cell phone or something is just a waste of time anyway, no better than the sound file because it won't show anything.

Also, keep in mind this is an A4 FLY with a 12 gram hammer. I could get a 5 gram Nylon hammer for it and it would probably make the gun a little bit faster.


However, the video I have as priority #1 right now is another A1 video, with a 3.2 gram nylon hammer. And with eyes on and unlimited ramp. It'll be as fast as the A4 FLY or faster.

[Aznrevlazn]

say farg, you wouldn't happen to have the short run of aluminum hammers that were made for the a4's and speeds would you :P I managed to get one from Impact, last one left tucked away behind 3 speed hammers in a cubby.

kick was literally gone.

right now still searching for a black Speed Demon and gonna fly it with a a4 fly board I repaired and slap on the aluminum hammer that Mark has left in the cubby, gonna be epic.

[SpeedFreak05]

sorry to revive a dead thread but im still interested in seeing the a1 video. if youve done any more work on this project i would like to know. thanks!

[Fargbollen]

sorry to revive a dead thread but im still interested in seeing the a1 video. if youve done any more work on this project i would like to know. thanks!
No problem. I was just wondering where this thread had gone off to actually.

I've got a lot of other things going on at the moment so I simply don't have time right now. Also we just lost the indoors field and won't get a new one up until next fall, which means I'd have to shoot it otuside in winter snow conditions and I'd rather not.

But there will be a video. I'll make one sometime this summer whenever I can get my hands on a proper video camera, either with the new FLY or at least with the new FLY Magnovalve kit.

[SpeedFreak05]

good good. :D hahah yea the fly is going to be amazing but sadly i dont have the money to be a gun whore so im going to purchase the internals and since that basically makes my a1 the fly im going to snatch some blue fly grips a black barrel tip with honeycomb pattern and maybe snatch the reg off of the fly that way i have as many fly parts as possible. but i will be looking forward to seeing this video :) thanks again bro

[Fargbollen]

You guys know how I've been experimenting with various guns' true bps speed capabilities. Well, I always thought EGOs were the other fastest gun around but now I'm noty so sure.
This is because I checked what Dwell settings the EGOs actually use.

Because picture this:
My A4 FLY with about 50 grams of reciprocating mass, at Dwell 7 ms is clocked at 34.6 bps continously for a full second.
EGO 07 with a Zick kit has 64 grams of cycling mass and a working Dwell of 12-14 ms. Values for the EGO 08 seems very close to this also. Stock Dwell is 12 ms compared to say the A1 Stock Dwell of 7 ms (and when run in it has a min Dwell of 4 ms). Also I've read several posters on pbn saying their EGOs when set below 12 ms their guns start to act up. So then, is the 12 ms the lower limit of an actually fully functional EGO?
So how on earth can it be possible for an EGO to shoot 40 bps like PE claims? Is this really with full performance 300 fps and no +/-25 or more over the chrono? How low Dwell can it really go?

Because the math just doesn't add up. Not unless the Angel is actually even faster than 40 bps. Just look at these stats:
My A1 with delrin hammer has a reciprocating mass of 6.3+15+9.5= 24.7 grams. It runs on 4 ms Dwell. This is so far beyond the physics of the EGO 08 it's ridiculous. -What, just over 1/3 of the reciprocating mass and 1/3 of the Dwell delay? And that's @ 300 fps and +/-2. This is actually the setting I normally play with my A1 at.

[Fargbollen]

Look at this 40 bps peak video by the guys at Eclipse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecn4637uTmc&feature=related

This SL47 marker is actually peaking at 43 bps between two shots when properly goldwaved, not 40 as the gun display shows. But continous firing is only about 32-33 bps. I don't know what routines the EGO 07 board uses for shot counting but it's odd it didn't either register the 43 peak as highest or the 33 bps 1 second burst. Perhaps it uses an average between several shots or has some sort of built-in delay. Or it may just be that the goldwave method of analyzing is simply more exact.

Anyway, 33 bps for a full second is a long way from 40 as peaking isn't at all the same as actually shooting a clear 40 balls over a full second. Doc Nickel got a Speed 05 to shoot 43 bps+ between two shots with a similar set up Reloader back in 2005 and that gun is really only capable stock of shooting 31+ bps continously.

I still haven't been able to determine the exact cause of why you only get this extra bps boost with the HALO and only for the first few shots, but obviously it has something to do with the spring stack effect of the HALO design.
A Q-loader should be faster than this as it free feeds at over 100 bps, and indeed it is when measuring over a full second or more, but it's about the same speed for the first shots as the rest.

But if you want a bull§§§§ peak for 2-3 shots at a higher peak bps, then the HALO/reloader with a custom board does this better than any other hopper.


In conclusion, we don't see the consistency of the SL74 marker in the video, so we have no idea if it's anywhere near fully functional and consistent. We can't weven see if it's got a full 300 fps. I strongly doubt it's running at anything like the Dwell 12 ms it needs for full performance, much more likely it's 6-7 ms to be this fast.
What we can see is simply this: The 2007/2008 platform SL 74 preciosely duplicates the 2005 Speed 05 (of 2004 A4 paltform) with the same type of hopper.

[SpeedFreak05]

this is very interesting to hear and im not just saying that lol. I do have one small question. I don't think you will have an answer since the magno valve and ram arent out yet BUT if i had the magno ram hammer combo would i be able to shoot a dwell of 4ms with no problems? or would i still need to buy a delrin hammer. im just wondering because i like my beast to run as nice as possible hahah. thanks

[Fargbollen]

The A1 can actually already shoot at 4 ms Dwell with just the stock parts.

[SpeedFreak05]

oh wow. WAIT earlier today i looked at my dwell settings and it only goes to 6 so how could one achieve 4?

[toXicpbf]

Do you have the 2.2 software?

[Fargbollen]

oh wow. WAIT earlier today i looked at my dwell settings and it only goes to 6 so how could one achieve 4?

By updating to v2.2...

[SpeedFreak05]

i have 2.2 ...... AHHHHHH sorry sorry, i was reading the manual when i saw it only goes to 6. ok ok haha. so do you guys run all of the joy settings except you use 4.0ms dwell?

[komikaze]

Woah!!!

Freakin Awesome!!!

[SpeedFreak05]

anyone wanna answer my question above?

[pA_the_man]

i run my a1 on 4,5 dwell but then i have a lightned hammer.
but if you want to do that you have to put your LPR higher.
so if i answer your Q thats NO i dont use the JOY/RAGE settings and 4 dwell, i modified it a bit.

[DJQ1212]

wow 4 imma have to try that once i get new breach block pivot pins but i didnt know there was a lightened hammer where can i obtain such an item?

[Fargbollen]

IMPORTANT NOTE!
Ken Crane just reminded me in another thread that 4 ms Dwell isn't a recommended setting for A1 guns and I'm just lucky it works for me and that there can be an eye function problem when using dwell that low.

Works fine on my gun, but Ken's the MAN and he says 6.5 ms is the limit to what he can recommend. His experience > mine so there it is.


This thread is all about extreme performance for a specific task of getting a gun to shoot at extreme rates of fire on video, not normally playable settings and not meant as a setup for actually playing paintball.
These settings may simply not work optimally or at all on your gun or any stock gun. Please bear that in mind and don't be disappointed if your gun has a problem using it. For real games, not bps fast firing videos, use the recommended standard settings.

If however you want to make a video like the one I made, try using a lighter hammer, possibly the new FLY valve and as low Dwell as the gun will let you. And a Q-loader or some other super fast custom loader. This would enable you to shoot even faster than I did.

[WDP Shooter]

Why the **** can't we get the Angels shooting as fast as that old crappy Automag? No offense meant to Automag owners, but I mean really!

Reason being, believe it or not, the Automag with without the classic valve, i.e. the ReTro Valve, RT valve, Xvalve, whatever you want to call it is capable of cycling 100 times per second. I am not claiming that they can "shoot" that fast, but unlike most guns, that same valve can sustain 26bps without any dropoff whatsoever. Go check out the Automags.org forums. I am sure in archives that you will see the vids from Tom Kaye of them cycling that fast. You have to remember in mags there is ONE moving part, and all the air propels the bolt forward with a spring returning it back. I used to swear by mags, and as angels gained popularity, I had one of the sweetest LE emags and one of the fastest RTs out. Until I got bit by the angel bug, oh, and the trixie bug...

[Fargbollen]

WDP Shooter, see post #55 on this thread. I think it will explain all.

In short, I figured it out and made it work. Angels, at least from 2004 and later are faster than the Automag platform.