is a SPEED an IR3 mixed with the 2k3 lcd?

[andygonzo]

is a SPEED an IR3 mixed with the 2k3 lcd?

[MorpheusX]

kind sorta bascially....
it seems like its an econo angel or somehting compared to the ir3.

[andygonzo]

i didn't want to just buy..and this happens to me

[ilikeangels]

no, it has no elemnts of the lcd. Its an ir3 with low pressure, high flow internals, with an led screen.

[andygonzo]

Well my first questioly is..why is it still cheaper...and second what kind of board is it?

[Jedrith]

Originally posted by ilikeangels
no, it has no elemnts of the lcd. Its an ir3 with low pressure, high flow internals, with an led screen.

There is no such thing as an "LED screen" Led lights, yes. Screen, no. But yes there are lots of these to make you think its a screen.

[dr.strangelove]

The Speed is cheaper because it's not quite as nice. It's a very good marker, but compared to the IR3 it's a little bit lacking in some areas. It hasn't got any LCD features, and it shares the body and gripframe with the IR3. Other than that, they're different. For $900 you can't beat it, but you get what you pay for when you pay the extra couple hundred for the IR3.

[Emmit]

seeing as we've got a section dedicated to the Speed, I'll move it there......

[cryptonomicon18]

The speed looks really nice, but I think the iR3 is still the top of the line. I wish they released these items for the iR3s like dual ball detents and low pressure internals, but what are you gonna do. I'll probably wait to see what wdp is gonna do before making any decisions.

[Panzerr]

Originally posted by dr.strangelove
..compared to the IR3 it's a little bit lacking in some areas. It hasn't got any LCD features....but you get what you pay for when you pay the extra couple hundred for the IR3.

I have to disagree. Performance wise the SPEED will outperform an IR3 in efficiency, ROF and it is less likely to chop a ball due to the lower operating pressure of the bolt.

LCD features are neat, but unnecessary and by no means make the less performing IR3 better than the SPEED.

[C.Carles-AOG]

L.E.D.
Light Emitting Diode
No screen, as pointed out before. As for the SPEED, any gun carrying my namesake best be darn good!
There are only two things I would miss on this gun, intellifeed and a timer. Now give that to me in a Fly version and I'm done.

[tstalion79]

Dr. Strangelove-
How is it worth the extra few hundred bucks? All the IR3 has over the speed is a timer, shot counter, and LCD screen that does nothing. The speed on the other hand has the following over the IR3: Lighter, smaller, less likely to chop, less kick and a more sensitive board (which does actually play a role in speed).

So basically, I would pay an extra couple hundred bucks for the SPEED! Not the ir3...

[cryptonomicon18]

I have yet to try out the speed, but its looks like a great buy expecially for the price. I would probably save the money and get a speed instead... the ir3 is starting to look like a nice backup gun heh.

[Ir3Flyer19]

less likely to chop eih, well obviously you havent shot low pressure guns enough. if you think impulse, shocker, or a cocker for instance are less likely to chop than an ir3 you must be joking. cops i not only dont chop i dont skip shots, ive shot 5 cases and havent broken a ball in the gun anywhere under any conditions. LP is the fad for paintball and if you chop with any gun its probably a user error(ie: shortstroke/ to slow of a hopper/gun out of tune) and chopping will happen just as frequently with high pressure guns as low pressure guns. Dual detents doesnt provide much than what?.. another detent..WOW what an advantage?! and sorry smallness/heaviness was never an issue for any angel and ive never heard anyone else complain. and I get around 900 shots per fill 68/4500 depending on conditions.. LED was out a while ago and better technology came along. You all can go with the retro 30bps 2k3 LED gun which has an opta trigger so there isnt going to be anyone hitting above 18. I will stick with the real top of the line, award winning marker. And once they modify the internals i will have them dropped in to my ir3. So speed can stick to the middle of the road like the timmys and impys it will be competing with.

[Xskier45]

HAHA...Is someone getting deffensive over their IR3?

[dr.strangelove]

I've read the ad for the speed numerous times and I missed the part where it said that the body was smaller, or that it was lighter than the IR3. It's got: No timer, no shot counter, no fault errors to tell when your board is screwed up, no display, making it harder to make adjustemnts (think I'm wrong? Adjust the dwell on an LED vs. IR3) smaller battery, an extra ball detent that does absolutely nothing and a board with a higher max MROF that most people can't achieve, the only advantage is the LP internals. And me, I'll wait until they copy the LP internals for the IR3, put 'em in, and then the one impressive feature that the speed has will also be on my IR3.

[i like tictacs]

Originally posted by Ir3Flyer19
less likely to chop eih, well obviously you havent shot low pressure guns enough. if you think impulse, shocker, or a cocker for instance are less likely to chop than an ir3 you must be joking. cops i not only dont chop i dont skip shots, ive shot 5 cases and havent broken a ball in the gun anywhere under any conditions. LP is the fad for paintball and if you chop with any gun its probably a user error(ie: shortstroke/ to slow of a hopper/gun out of tune) and chopping will happen just as frequently with high pressure guns as low pressure guns. Dual detents doesnt provide much than what?.. another detent..WOW what an advantage?! and sorry smallness/heaviness was never an issue for any angel and ive never heard anyone else complain. and I get around 900 shots per fill 68/4500 depending on conditions.. LED was out a while ago and better technology came along. You all can go with the retro 30bps 2k3 LED gun which has an opta trigger so there isnt going to be anyone hitting above 18. I will stick with the real top of the line, award winning marker. And once they modify the internals i will have them dropped in to my ir3. So speed can stick to the middle of the road like the timmys and impys it will be competing with.


you don't know what you're talking about, bottom line.


impulses have eyes, shocker can bounce off almost any paint, and all the ecockers have eyes, and many custom cockers do bounce off paint.

[JTp8ntballer12]

well u might as well hve the extra stuff, not like it hurts you or nythin

[Ir3Flyer19]

lol i guess so but a few changes doesnt make it better, im sure its good but well see when it comes out. i personally enjoy using the features on the ir3. and it still is the best gun

[captncrunch]

my matrix never chops, neither does my cocker, they don't have ace, my ir3 never chops either when i have cops on, when it's off I chop like crazy, my other guns pinch don't chop, it really doens't matter which method you use to prevent chopping, but it's not a fair statement that low pressure guns chop more, they will not chop if you set them the right way. You can stick your finger in the breech and choot, the bolt bounces off, try that with an angel and you'll have a broken finger, or some serious bleeding. :)

[Ir3Flyer19]

iliketictacs

you don't know what you're talking about, bottom line. impulses have eyes, shocker can bounce off almost any paint, and all the ecockers have eyes, and many custom cockers do bounce off paint.


ok ive shot or owned all the guns youve listed and at least 1 person on my team shoots one of the guns listed. and ir3 has broken the least paint out of all 0 balls. so im talking from expierance not from a catalog description. and i dont know what youve been shooting thinking any gun with an eye is just as good as an ir3. go play some real paintball and dont tell me on i dont know what im talking about. bottom line on the field carry a battleswab 30bps newb im sure duel detents on impulses help it not chop either right.??

[Ir3Flyer19]

i know guns which the bolt cycles at a low pressure doesnt put as much force on the ball. yes this is true and we all should know. and it is more likely that if the bolt closes prematurely on the ball it is less likely to chop it since the force hitting the ball is less. however that does not guarantee chop free operation everytime. Thats why when you get a gun cycling so fast that they put an eye on it. because obviously if a low pressure gun never chopped who would put on an eye or want an eye. Most people wouldnt inconveinance themselves or put an unnecessary part (that may fail) on their gun. So why is the eye on these low pressure guns that never chop? Some of you may think for the added insurance and security that its even less likely now? well the fact is that these guns might chop and still do and they added the eye to decrease this possibility. And I can say low pressure guns will chop just as much or more as my angel..why? because thats the fact my gun doesnt. And if your angel chops like crazy when you dont have cops then that is user error because Ive owned the lcd with no cops and it rarely chops. The ideal gun never chops or skips, or breaks paint. yes? I will take a gun that never chops before I take a gun that reduces the chance of chopping from Low pressure.

When i get a hold of a speed I will simply put the rate of fire at 30 and use a regular 12v revy and shoot as fast as i can and if it doesnt chop a single ball without any eye than that will make it better than the ir3 with stock internals. If it doesnt then I guess it was just another lowpressure scam. dont get me wrong the efficiency will be better and I praise that improvement.
peace for what i said earlier I dont mean any insult and wish everyone luck at the field and with their equipment

[forum155pl]

will the duel ball detents help with the use of the halo b?

[WarpedKid02]

Originally posted by forum155pl
will the duel ball detents help with the use of the halo b?

Yes, they will.

[captncrunch]

the eye can fail also on ir3s, if the grease doesn't stay put, which acts as a shock absorber, the gun will still dry fire as fast as you can shoot, even with the sens level at 1. BTW my ir3 was just tuned by cobra, and it if you shoot w/o the eye it chops like crazy even, it's not user error.
My matrix WON'T chop, i have tried and it just doesn't, i set the gun to shoot 21/sec. Put a revvy on it and ripped it, the rof counter displayed 18 bps, didn't chop through a whole hopper going like that, it just pinched, AND i was using evil paint, In my opinion and experiences, means to stop chopping which use lighter bolt pressure ect., work better than guns that use an eye.

[EKK23]

if i was gonna get a speed it wouldn't b the 30 bps that matters -- you can't get a hopper that feeds at 30 bps and even if you could you'd b through a hopper in about 5 seconds. not just that but 30 bps would b a total waste of paint. 20 bps is a waste of paint. think about it when you're behind a bunker it wouldn't make that big of a differance if someone was shooting you at 13 bps or if they were shooting 25 bps

- n e way i dono what u guys are all concerned about bps for -- all angels can do 13 and no hopper can do much over 18

[i like tictacs]

Originally posted by Ir3Flyer19
iliketictacs



ok ive shot or owned all the guns youve listed and at least 1 person on my team shoots one of the guns listed. and ir3 has broken the least paint out of all 0 balls. so im talking from expierance not from a catalog description. and i dont know what youve been shooting thinking any gun with an eye is just as good as an ir3. go play some real paintball and dont tell me on i dont know what im talking about. bottom line on the field carry a battleswab 30bps newb im sure duel detents on impulses help it not chop either right.??

gogoggo warp and ten inch barrel.


And i think an e-orracle or eclipse eblade cocker are both better then an ir3. They kill.

By the way, stop wasting time posting useless posts with horrible grammar, and spend that time studying English.

[Ir3Flyer19]

thing about the eblade cockers is a headfirst slide or a muddy or wet field the solenoid on the front block has little protection from debris, with almost any contact with dirt ive seen that gun go down (it either cycles much slower or doesnt cycle correctly) my gun can actually take abuse from and still function 100%. and you better loctite every screw on that ecocker because the screws and cocking rod have the tendency to back out with a cocker shooting so fast not to mention the eye doesnt work well will some shell colors. Also the eblade doesnt work well in cold weather the solenoid seals tend to shrink and leak causing more cycling problems. I never had that problem. sorry about my grammer I dont proofread useless posts to explain to newbies how a paintball guns differ from others. Maybe if you stop working on your punctuation you can actually make a good point.?
and sorry, i maintain my guns so my cops sensor is greased and always working.
and yes my gun with warp works excellent. and i have multiple length and style freak barrel tips. if you think the evo2 is a good hopper but balls can get jammed in the paddes and ive seen so many problems with haloB no one will get one of those on my guns. I dont know what you use but im sure its a quality setup that you copied off some post or ebay description

[pqm55]

Speed is actualy the IR4
http://www.paintcheck.com/
Speed (aka IR4)

[dr.strangelove]

The Speed may have been dubbed the "IR4" by some people who bought it, but WDP has never called it that from day one. It'd be a pretty silly name for something that doesn't have InfraRed (IR) technology.

[AstroZ31]

I still want to know what is so special about a theoretical ROF of 30bps when there is no feed system that will even come close to that. Heck, most of us can't even get a Halo to work so we are limiting our 20bps markers to something closer to 14 bps.

Yes, the low pressure more efficient workings of the Speed have an allure. However, I don't think this marker will actually be much faster than my Eclipse framed LCD.

[AstroZ31]

show me a hopper that can keep up with that speed, and a way to actually acheive it, and I'll be impressed.

[captncrunch]

Race grips by Pro Paintball and racegun in denmark use eyes that are transmissive, not reflective like eblade eyes--no paint probs.
Only reason eblades are more popular is because they have been advertised more and are put out by a larger company(eclipse), but having a cocker raced and aced will be good as an eblade without eye problems, and in many people's opinions who have shot my ir3 and then my cocker, the cocker is the choice of which one is better, it's just so easy to shoot and FAST. It's wierd how people get in denial around here when talk of other guns being better are brought up.

For example is someone posts how they got 20 bps on their angel, everyone wants their settings ect. because they think it would be sick in a game. When you here of anybody being able to pick up an easily hit 20 bps on a gun like the matrix, everyone is says it's not practical ect.

[captncrunch]

btw 2 advanced, the 66.6 bps board is a standard SOB board, like in lower grade timmys. In equalizer board, it's checked a million times a second, equalizers make the guns faster because there is MUCH more sensitive pull, the factors that make it so fast include cross talk. Also a board makes a gun faster if it counts all shots, even those pulled during the middle of firing. If yu evernotice, some people shoots really fast, and you can see their fingers moving really quickly, and they get like 12-13, then you see some one moving slower, but their gun is humming and they get like 17 bps, it's because their fingers are moving slower but more efficently, boards that count EVERY pull, it sort of builds up and you can pull really quick and w/o rithym, with those combinations, is what makea boards fast, in my opinion anyways.

[pqm55]

this goes out to captncrunch

you said "Only reason eblades are more popular is because they have been advertised more and are put out by a larger company(eclipse)"

get your facts from the source before you start blabing
the Naughty Dogs....whom I know and talk to often....love the E-blade far more than the Race frame...and I've shot their guns with both setups. Here is a link for you.

http://www.wgppress.com/viewtopic.php?t=82&sid=ee80775d99a9f3822659b75a2683b2ec

[oohaohh]

I think i must agree what people are saying about the speed in the fact why would you buy an IR3. I have a dark Ir3 which i love but at the end of the day I only ever really use the features of my IR3 that are availble on the speed and I realise that low pressure isn't the answer to chops, but it is less likely than on a LCD or IR3 with cops off IMO. I really can't see why any one would go for the IR3 now this one is out. If I was to pay the extra for a marker I would wait for either a Dark, Cobra or Impact speed because in all honesty other than changing the dwell how often does anyone use the other features of an IR3. I must admit I use the IR capability but that is because I'm lazy and it's easier to use my PDA to alter the dwell but that is all i use it for. I also feel that from what I have read it has improved internals over the IR3 so surely except for the board it makes the IR3 out of date. The only way I could justify buying a IR3 again over the speed would be if it had the same internals if not better with the extra features of the board. Then it would truely be the better marker. After all at the end of it we all want the best marker on the market and that is always going to be the one that's has the latest features possible with out causing any hassle. All the same nice to see the latest development and hopefully WDP will incorporate the internals for the IR3 eventually.

[captncrunch]

ok thats great, I like eblades too, but I like races better, it's preference, raceguns also use a more efficent operation- alot more graceful in my opinion.
Now on a second note, are you trying to tell me that eblades are more popular because they are better? every one knows about eclipse, a lot don't know anout racegun-in America anyways. And the raceguns have far less eye problems than eblades.

[Yeknomian]

This is so contraversial.....but I'm still getting one!

[the-arch-angel]

back to the useless featueres note

the dual ball detens- are like we said for the use of high powered forcefeed loading systems

the sensi- is for the same purpose of the cops but a lot of people had been breaking the cops like whaen someone would shove a swab or hard squegee like that it would break off with the sensi you dont have to worry about it

LP internals- ofcourse their are a few small advantages of LP but the most reason is to stay on the market with all the other low pressure guns that all the newbs think are great.

most of all disputed ; the "MROF of 30"- the whole reason is to not limit you like a lot of "non-angel users" have been saying about the angel is that it isnt as good as say the matrix because it lets you pull the trigger that fast then stops you or the intimidator or bushmaster, the only reason is to make it lighter of a pull to be faster and keep the angel at its title ( the best marker in the world)
i mean come on its not like anyone is goin to be pulling 30bps atleast not that i know of. to me it is all brilliant for thier sake in the market

dont forget accuracy over volume so get a good barrel!

[the-arch-angel]

dont like to post twice in a row but as for the waiting for a dark speed or a cobra speed, i have a feeling they will, so not sure they will. I heard somtething about warped sports already having part in the design so they will already get part of the sales money. after i heard that i noticed a couple of things ; the warped sports r11 bolt, lifetime warranty a new design spiral mini reg(new design as in it isnt spiral anymore). dont quote me on this once i get some definite answers then you can quote me but not yet

[andygonzo]

I personally own a ocean green C&C ir3 and i was appauled when i got on and found out that wdp came out with a new gun...i mean not more than a month ago i bought my ir3, and now this. I'm not going to try to sell my ir3, i'm going to send it to bonebrake and make it into a "speed" ir3 with better lp...so ha

[andygonzo]

I just wanted to point out how much wdp dosen;t care for this marker...http://www.angel-owners.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=52577&fullpage=1 this link show the packing that it comes in........CRAP compared to what the ir3 comes in, and the box is an whole other thread

[andygonzo]

thanks for upholding my view...i think

[Casedogg]

IR3Flyer the Speed doen't have a eye, Don't be pissed at us because you got burnt like 400 or 500 dollars more so you could hook your ir3 up to your gameboy, big deal.I sold my ir3 after 2 months because my old spyder had a flatter shot than my ir3.Speed is the way to roll

[issues]

Originally posted by dr.strangelove
The Speed is cheaper because it's not quite as nice. It's a very good marker, but compared to the IR3 it's a little bit lacking in some areas. It hasn't got any LCD features, and it shares the body and gripframe with the IR3. Other than that, they're different. For $900 you can't beat it, but you get what you pay for when you pay the extra couple hundred for the IR3.

the speed is hands down the best angel made(dont know about the 4 yet) the ir3 is a pile and a trix is lp and i rarely ever see a trix chop. i a glad i never bought an ir3 waste of money and i know way to manny people who think the same thing