help

[*niels*]

were slow pulling the triggers so slow that it caused it to bounce. And ive tried adjusting the trigger all over the place and it still bounces(2 or 3 extra balls) when you extremly slow pull it in the middle. Brand new detents, and another friend with ego detents also has the same problem. Were all using the rage/joy settings with stako low pressure tanks. Im just wondering what would cause t

[AAXplosionnn]

bounce is caused by the trigger adjustment. it happens when there is not enough magnetic return on, and its way too loose. try tightening the screw closest top of the trigger and give it a little more magnetic return, so it has more snap to it and is a little harder to pull.

hope dis helps

[*niels*]

no it wont work

[DDcaptain]

Whats your debounce setting at, if its low trun it up. If that dosnt work try lowering the LPR so you can reduce some kick.

[Stu H]

Whether this is an issue depends on where you play. The only way to 'totally' remove this (which is mechanical bounce) is to set up you trigger / settings in a way that makes ANY gun fire siht. HOWEVER, depending on where you play this type of bounce may not be an issue as most sensible tourny organisers should not employ the 'slow pull' bounce test as its irrelevant to a tourny setting. You would probably not even have noticed this 'bounce' in normal playing conditions !!!

[de Jaak]

stu i'm a teammate of niels. We bougth teamguns and most of the players have the same issues. The refs at the tourney we played notice this as illegal bounce. I've tryed to spent a day of adjusting the trigger but there is no adjusting without this bounce. my gun shoots almost full auto when i pull slowly on my trigger. Is there anyone with an alternitive?

sorry for my bad english

[*niels*]

Thats true jaak, if dont fix this we cant play with the A1 at tourneys.

[DDcaptain]

Yeah its kinda gay, i have the same problems. WDP should add a mechanical bounce setting to the next software.

[demiruyar]

Download the newest software and raise your debounce.

[BoB]

Find another event to play, one where the promoter and judges actually know what they are doing.

[DDcaptain]

I play the NEPL and the refs wouldnt let me on the field with a gun that slow pulls 2 - 3 balls every time.

[BoB]

You can make any electonic gun bounce by pulling the trigger like that just a matter of finding the sweet spot. They need to be better trained plain and simple.

[*niels*]

Thanks for the help

[de Jaak]

we already have the newest software. It's a little easy to say play another tournament bob. So what you say is that this kind of bounce is normal for a wdp gun:mgfootinm. so thats great!
I hope that the tech's from wdp do have a solution for this bounce cause it suck very bad!! I'm sorry but still now i dont be happy with the new guns!

[BoB]

These guns are used in the NPPL and the PSP without issue. If you are setting the triggers correctly then there is not a problem. By all means send them in and have them looked at. I am sitting here right now making an NXT Shocker bounce. Any electronic gun can be made to bounce they way you are describing, this is why it is not a proper test.

[Stu H]

These guns are used in the NPPL and the PSP without issue. If you are setting the triggers correctly then there is not a problem. By all means send them in and have them looked at. I am sitting here right now making an NXT Shocker bounce. Any electronic gun can be made to bounce they way you are describing, this is why it is not a proper test.

Which is exactly what I was on about. My team have had this issue with 'certain' ref's in TWO of the Uk's popular tourny series for the LAST 3 YEARS. Using Ego's, Timmys. DM's., Promasters & Freestyle's. We look to next season with trepidation as we're ALL shoting A1's but so far none of the team has said they have a bounce problem. As Ken say's tho, this is not an A1 problem, but an Electronic marker problem. It can be reduced, but rarely eliminated but any event doing the 'slow pull' test needs 'educating' !

[Fudde]

if you go to the gun check turn eyes off !!
than the bounce is nearly zero!
some refs in germany are paranoid like those in new hampshie ^^
they fingering 1 minute to find a sweet spot and than they say the gun is illegal :-).
but if you ask if this is a really advantage to find the sweet spot in 60 seconds to have some double or tripple balls come out , they getting angry and they say the rules blahh blaaah blaaaahh .....

so when i want to get really sure i set the debounce on "1" (you need the longest triggerpull)
and you cann play a bit with the shotfilter everything about 80% will be okay.
so the board will accept the next triggerpull after 80% of the actual cycle is completed.
it give you a few miliseconds ^^

and as i said turn the eyes off before you give the gun to the ref and its a bit harder to find the sweetspot.

eliminate mechanical debounce is nearly impossible
the trigger will ever pass the point of "action"!
so you only can eliminate it with the software.

[KEN CRANE]

I play the NEPL and the refs wouldnt let me on the field with a gun that slow pulls 2 - 3 balls every time.


there is no issue in the nepl.go directly to anthony and tell him what field your on and let him educate the ref. this has been discussed with him by me and resolved. there is no problem in the nepl. period

[Stu H]

if you go to the gun check turn eyes off !!
than the bounce is nearly zero!
some refs in germany are paranoid like those in new hampshie ^^
they fingering 1 minute to find a sweet spot and than they say the gun is illegal :-).
but if you ask if this is a really advantage to find the sweet spot in 60 seconds to have some double or tripple balls come out , they getting angry and they say the rules blahh blaaah blaaaahh .....

And here in lies the problem. If event promoters do not make clear declarations on gun test policy and you end up with every field doing it differently, you get the problem peps are talking about. That's where Ken is right, that if you have the ability to show your opinion with your feet DO IT. Unfortunately most don't have that luxury and we're down to player pressure / educating of marshals / promoters etc etc etc. Which is a siht position to be in but player power can overcome !!

[Fudde]

normaly in Europe most tourney are jugged with the Millenium rules or light modified mille rules and i believe there is a paragraph about the testing scenarion for the trigger.

i think its something about the judge ha s 2 seconds to find the sweetspot !?

[Brad7]

Section 19.05

- Mechanical Bounce Test - Markers will be tested for mechanical bounce by a
bumping or jarring of the marker. Markers will be held by the rear of the main body
and bumped on the tank or hopper. No contact will be made with the trigger. The
marker will be deemed to have mechanical bounce if the marker fires during the bump
test.
- “Runaway Guns” Test - All markers will be checked for “runaway” triggers. The
marker will be fired rapidly. The testing judge, while rapidly firing the marker will
suddenly cease to pull the trigger. Any marker that fires more than 1 additional shot
after the final trigger activation, with a maximum delay of 100 ms, will be deemed to
be a “Runaway Gun” and will not be allowed on the field.
- Marker Velocity Chronographing Test - All markers will be chronographed prior to
going onto the field. The maximum muzzle velocity allowed will be 300 feet per
second. Markers will be tested by firing over a radar chronograph.

[KEN CRANE]

- Mechanical Bounce Test - Markers will be tested for mechanical bounce by a
bumping or jarring of the marker. Markers will be held by the rear of the main body
and bumped on the tank or hopper. No contact will be made with the trigger. The
marker will be deemed to have mechanical bounce if the marker fires during the bump


how hard will they bump it and what will they bump it with? a 5 pound rubber mallet or the palm of their hand. soo subjective

[Fudde]

- Mechanical Bounce Test - Markers will be tested for mechanical bounce by a
bumping or jarring of the marker. Markers will be held by the rear of the main body
and bumped on the tank or hopper. No contact will be made with the trigger. The
marker will be deemed to have mechanical bounce if the marker fires during the bump


how hard will they bump it and what will they bump it with? a 5 pound rubber mallet or the palm of their hand. soo subjective

yes thats it !!
but they bump it with the hand and they only bump with teh force of 80 gramms however they can feel how heavy they bump :-)

[DDcaptain]

there is no issue in the nepl.go directly to anthony and tell him what field your on and let him educate the ref. this has been discussed with him by me and resolved. there is no problem in the nepl. period

k thanks

[Stu H]

The mil bump test's never been a big issue. They are generally quite sensible and if anything bump to lightly. Even the 'runaway' gun test is quite hard to fail. The biggest prob I've seen is with the enforcement when a marker does get spotted. One incident I know of a whole team were practically shooting full auto, the crony ref spotted this and refused the guns onto the field. However the team capt called over the field ultimate who was their 'mate' and he overruled the crony ref and let em on !!!! Generally the Mill series is very lax and I know of all sorts of modes being used with the only people tending to get caught being the poor buggers who's guns go all 'manic' and stick in auto or something in the middle of a game. Consequently 'bounce' is never even on the radar when you can walk on field in psp ramp anyway !!

[vangogh]

U can say whatever u want about educating refs and pulling out rule books etc..... and the larger tournaments like NPPL have refs that let these guns pass. U should be able to walk on any field with any ref and not have a problem.
The fact is using the excuse that every electronic guns has this is a cop out. I have owned an IR3,A4,05 speed,GAT, G7 and now own a G7 FLY and an A1. None of these other guns have had this problem. The slow trigger pull is not as slow as u are implying. It's slow for playing but should still not constitute mechanical bounce. Also I am a 46 yr old father and have been around tournaments for approx. 4 yrs. local and nat'l.
If this is a reoccuring problem for alot of players u need to CORRECT the problem. It would be a simple software issue that could easily be rectified. But first u need to quit blaming eneryone but yourselves.
I am sorely disappointed in the quality of this gun. My son has owned the A1 for approx. 2 months and have yet been able to play with it in practice, much less a tournament. First when it came, the bolt stuck and the solenoid was bad. We sent it to a qualified angel tech and had those fixed and up to v.2.1. We got it back and the ball detents broke. with less than a case of paint through the gun. Now this bounce problem.
Your detents are another story. Were u trying to make more money by replacing an almost perfect part to one that everyone has to replace time and time again. It's disgusting.
We are in the process of selling this gun and sticking with the Fly to play with. Which by the way is discontinued why?
In the future we will be looking for another gun that has the reliability, accuracy and speed of every angel that u replaced with the A1.

[de Jaak]

qft

i totally agree with you. its very easy to say the refs are not good and blabla but the marker bounced and that is in the first case the problem. I hoop the come soon with a solution so that we can play everywhere without the fear for a illegal gun!

[KEN CRANE]

I play the NEPL and the refs wouldnt let me on the field with a gun that slow pulls 2 - 3 balls every time.


dude you play those events at my field. when their is a bounce issue they come to me. i have advised you how to handle the situation in the nepl. they do not discriminate against the angel or the angel 1. if its bouncing lets fix it so it doesnt. if we can get joy and rage guns on the field that are 3x more on the edge than anything you would play with i think we can get you on the feild here. most every bounce issue is due to the fact that the player/tech has removed too much magnet tention. nothing else.get me the gun and we can get this solved.

[KEN CRANE]

U can say whatever u want about educating refs and pulling out rule books etc..... and the larger tournaments like NPPL have refs that let these guns pass. U should be able to walk on any field with any ref and not have a problem.
The fact is using the excuse that every electronic guns has this is a cop out. I have owned an IR3,A4,05 speed,GAT, G7 and now own a G7 FLY and an A1. None of these other guns have had this problem. The slow trigger pull is not as slow as u are implying. It's slow for playing but should still not constitute mechanical bounce. Also I am a 46 yr old father and have been around tournaments for approx. 4 yrs. local and nat'l.
If this is a reoccuring problem for alot of players u need to CORRECT the problem. It would be a simple software issue that could easily be rectified. But first u need to quit blaming eneryone but yourselves.
I am sorely disappointed in the quality of this gun. My son has owned the A1 for approx. 2 months and have yet been able to play with it in practice, much less a tournament. First when it came, the bolt stuck and the solenoid was bad. We sent it to a qualified angel tech and had those fixed and up to v.2.1. We got it back and the ball detents broke. with less than a case of paint through the gun. Now this bounce problem.
Your detents are another story. Were u trying to make more money by replacing an almost perfect part to one that everyone has to replace time and time again. It's disgusting.
We are in the process of selling this gun and sticking with the Fly to play with. Which by the way is discontinued why?
In the future we will be looking for another gun that has the reliability, accuracy and speed of every angel that u replaced with the A1.


this issue is nothing more than the settings you have on your gun. i will tell you without doubt that this gun did not bounce out of the box,this becuse the gun is set soooo safe its not even funny. reset the magnet tention back into the trigger so a flys fart wont activate it and it will be fine. you can all say what you want but we have thousands of these guns in the field and bounce is almost always self inflicted by the player/tech that adjusted it improperly. you have to understand the frutration here on our part as well as bob and i service 90% of all markers sent in fro service and we see this on a daily basis. self inflicted i say self inflicted.

[vangogh]

Please advise us how to set the trigger magnets. And please be specific or tell me where we went wrong with our adjustments. It would be very appreciated.
First we got the gun with joy division settings from the tech. We (my son and I) we set the trigger activation point to as far back as possible, it was our understanding that's where it belongs, between middle and back. nothing changed the problem.
Next we put the filtering and dbounce max and left the tr. act. point near the back of the trigger. The gun would not even shoot a stream, but would still deliver multiple balls on certain tr. pulls.
We then spanned the filter and dbounce from min. to max and the activation from front to back and still couldn't get the gun to stop.
What could we try next.
Thank you

[KEN CRANE]

Please advise us how to set the trigger magnets. And please be specific or tell me where we went wrong with our adjustments. It would be very appreciated.
First we got the gun with joy division settings from the tech. We (my son and I) we set the trigger activation point to as far back as possible, it was our understanding that's where it belongs, between middle and back. nothing changed the problem.
Next we put the filtering and dbounce max and left the tr. act. point near the back of the trigger. The gun would not even shoot a stream, but would still deliver multiple balls on certain tr. pulls.
We then spanned the filter and dbounce from min. to max and the activation from front to back and still couldn't get the gun to stop.
What could we try next.
Thank you


fair enough. ill do a set up tonight

[*niels*]

Ken did jou got a set-up allready ?:)

[tsunami]

i found that if the back position was too far forward it double fired on slow pulls. You could try moving it as far back as possible and seeing if it helps

[*niels*]

with the trigger as far back as possible... jes the bounce is harder to found
but the bounce is still there, i think jou cant get it out of the A1
Maybee ken can find out a solution ?

[DDcaptain]

Guns bounce more when the trigger activation point is set far back. The reson for this is when you pull the trigger and shoot(trigger activation point set back as far as possible) the gun kicks which moves the gun back then foward. Which then makes you pull the trigger again, which is called mechanical bounce. If the trigger is set really close to the front of the pull. This doesnt happen.

[vangogh]

That does make sense. but everything that was told to us was to go between middle and back for the act. point. We did try going forward but did not spend alot of time because we were told the opposite.
The tech we have been talking to about this said the one gun he fixed with the same problem had a really high lpr. setting the lpr to the right psi fixed the problem ( i personally don't understand the correlation)but he set our gun to the proper psi settings before we got the gun back, so i don't think it applies to my gun, but it might help someone else. we will try going forward more and see what happens. thanks. I'm wondering if setting the tr. act. point forward will eliminate the mech. bounce and whatever bounce is left and be filtered out. has anyone tried this?