Wdp Speed The Real Deal!

[matthepepe]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://angel-owners.com/show.php?pg=speed)

PRESS RELEASES

WDP to Launch New Angel at Las Vegas NPPL

Angel Speed – The fastest Paintball Gun on the Planet.
If there were not already enough reasons for you to head out to Las Vegas for Event #2 of the NPPL Super 7 World Series, well here is another big one….

WDP are unveiling a brand new Angel at the show, and word has it that it is the fastest Angel ever, and is capable of an incredible 30 balls per second. . The aptly named Angel SPEED is to be launched this weekend at the Sam Boyd Training ground in Las Vegas.
To witness and experience the awesome firepower delivered by this heavenly new creation drop by the WDP booth this weekend at the NPPL Super 7’s , where a limited amount of Angel SPEED’s will be available to the lucky few who get there early.

Here are just a few of the Angel SPEED Features:

New Hardware

New - LED Encapsulated Speed-Board
New - Double Serviceable Low-Profile Ball Detents
New –Ram – Totally New Serviceable Design, 50% More Efficient
New – Sculptured Removable Hammer
New – Valve Dwell – Reduced by 60%
New - Minireg – Low Pressure, 50% increase in Gas Flow
New – LPR – Serviceable, Operates with 1/3 Less Pressure
New – Bolt – 20% More Efficient
New - Exhaust Valve and Guide– 4 x Previous Flow-Rate
New – Smaller, Lighter 4.8v Rechargeable Metal Hydride Battery (100’000 shots)
New – 4.8v Intelli-Charger
New - Trigger system – External TOE Adjustment for Increased Rate of Fire up to 30bps (with Sensi activated)
New – Increased Gas Galleries – 2 x Air Flow
New – One Piece Flash tank – Improved Gas Flow
New – Integral Breech Seal


New Software

New – 5 Modes of fire (Semi-Automatic)
New – Sensi Load Detection System (LDS) .
New – Switch & Go Operation
New – LED Power-Bar Including ROF Speedometer.


Low pressure Operation Statistics

LPR pressure is 1/3 less than previous Angels, meaning 33% less force is applied by the bolt to the ball.

Working Pressure of 180-350psi, reduced by up to 60%. Delivering reduced ball stress and quieter operation with no effect on Rate of Fire.

60% reduction in valve dwell reduces cycle time, increasing achievable ROF to 30 BPS. (with Sensi activated)

Integral Breech seal on Super-flow Breech porting

Increased porting delivers double the previous gas flow to the Bolt

New Bolt is 20% more efficient, typically raising velocity by 40fps at the same working pressure.

Out of the box, Speed users can achieve up to 1450 shots at 290fps from a 68/4500 tank (results based on Angel Air system)

The Angel SPEED, offering all this performance at under $1000, is sure to be red-hot product. WDP insiders say they are braced for huge demand both in their UK Headquarters and the Huntington Beach Sales Office.

UK – (44) 121 328 2228
US – (714) 536 9011
sales@wdp.tv

To know more, Visit www.wdp.tv or get on the next plane to Vegas for the official US launch.


Live in Europe? Not able to get to Vegas at short notice? You have a second chance to see the fastest Paintball gun on the planet at the Official European Launch, at the German leg of the Millennium Series 19th – 21st April.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://angel-owners.com/show.php?pg=speed)

[R.Vogel-Mo's]

.

[matthepepe]

You can order them from all the current sponsors,

please visit

www.wdpservice.com
www.performanceangel.com
www.angelparts.com
www.mospaintball.com

to order yours today.

[IBJanky]

Wow! Those are nice! :)

[Sparkles]

Wow sweet! why they stick with the space frame? and not just go with a norm 45 frame??

[Deep Sixx]

That display is the gawdiest looking thing I've ever seen! It looks like a bad arcade game from the early 80s... or a Christmas tree trapped in the grip.

Other than that it looks good... especially the price. Nice to see a low end Angel with the space frame. I certainly wouldn't trade my iR3 for one, but I'll show this to my wife who is looking for an electro. Right now she's considering a GZ.

sixx

[c-note]

will this gun replace the ir3, or just make a hit in the middleprize marked?

or to say it in a different way. should i be angry with wdp for the ir3 i just got last week?

[gremlin75]

I kind of like the display. It looks sweet. Space Frame and opto trigger is a big plus. Im still kind of suprised that WDP released a new maker so soon after the ir3.

later
gremlin

[Deep Sixx]

I don't think it will replace the iR3 as it has no IR interface. I think it will replace the LCD and WDP will phase out the 45 frame, leaving us with the entry level Speed and the high end iR3.

or...

LCD (low), Speed (mid), iR3 (high)

sixx

[Kriptic]

I'm impressed! i just may have to buy one of these, im thinking that all these features go for more or less the "player" and strayed away from the IR3 who has many features.... this gun is for those who want to rip... and not for those who want t otext message... I may have t oget one.... You think warped sportz will get ahold of these and pimp them out?

[bunkherfrombehind82]

Are they still gonna accept the intellifeed for revvy's on the new board? Not like there fast enought to keep up with 30 bps but just askin

[gremlin75]

That is a huge picture:drools:....thank you so very much:clap:. now wheres that mastercard :puzzled:

later
gremlin

[tstalion79]

Deep Sixx- I dont know what you mean by saying that the IR3 is better than the speed.

Speed- Lighter, smaller, faster, lower operating pressure, ACE, Equal efficiency

IR3- Ummm, more modes and a fancy LCD display

What do you think it has over the speed other than a higher price tag?

[Emmit]

uh dude....unless I'm completely missing something there is no anti-chop system on the SPEED....there is a double ball detent so Halo users can be happy....but no anti-chop system whether it be an ACE or COPS.

[spam@bailey1368.fsne]

looks like a dressed up ir3 to me, although i`ve not seen
one in the flesh yet.

[tgallo]

Here's hoping they take they take the new features of this SPEED and put them into the iR3s....call them iR3 SPEED.

Emmit, no COPS....but what is this Sensi Load Detection System?

Tony

[Chrome Duck]

perhaps LDS is the new antichop mechanism for this gun

i want one.

[Kerdon]

Looks promising!

[Deep Sixx]

Originally posted by tstalion79
Deep Sixx- I dont know what you mean by saying that the IR3 is better than the speed.

Speed- Lighter, smaller, faster, lower operating pressure, ACE, Equal efficiency

IR3- Ummm, more modes and a fancy LCD display

What do you think it has over the speed other than a higher price tag?

Well, there's no IR interface. No shot counter and no timer (!). Also, there doesn't appear to be an intellifeed option. As for being faster, the ROF is meaningless as A) the ROF is determined by the user (having a marker capable of 30bps won't make you faster) and B) nothing feeds that fast.

iR3s have COPS2 so there's your ACE. Low pressure is a gimmick IMO... I break less paint in my iR3 and LCD than I ever did with my Impulse (which had an LPR mod... bolt pressure was <100psi).

I love the price tag on this, but I don't think it's a higher level marker than the iR3. I think it'll go somewhere in the middle.

sixx

[Kriptic]

Do you guys think that there will be any flaws in this new marker? I mean look how long it took WDP to master (or correct the flaws) of their IR3's (MEM2-MEM6, new opto trigger, and COPS1-COPS2 t oname a few). I would love to buy this beast but am not too sure whether or not i want to take the chance of getting the marker and then having to deal with the fact that a newer better, more manageable, less faulty one comes out like 6 months later... tell me what you guys think. Also if we are to pre-order this marker, when shoul we expect it... arrival dats is the 14th so will we get it ON the 14th or wil lthe stores get them on that date and then have to send them to us after?

[Eclipse]

OMFG!!!! I WANT ONE!!!:D did ya ever figure out if it has some type of ACE or COPS??? if so im gonna get it for sure!! :D

[Jedrith]

Read it again...It has a 'sensi' thingy that measures how much pressure is on the breech area from the feedtube enabling a higher ROF.

[Jedrith]

Mo's said as late as late next week.

[tstalion79]

I heard that the breech senses a ball from its weight.

[Emmit]

guess I missed the LDS.....it might be an anti chop system of some sort.

[Jedrith]

Emmit, what I got out of the LDS was that it increased the ROF when the pressure was abnormal, IE using a HALO.

[Deep Sixx]

High ROF capabilities are only useful if you can pull that fast. I don't know anyone that can pull past 16 or 17bps. So what's the point of 30? Remember, you have to be able to PULL that fast as the "Speed" has an optical trigger... no bounce.

sixx

[Jedrith]

Its got other modes, remember.

[Jedrith]

I do wonder if these new higher flow, more efficient internals will fir the lcd.

[Target]

well I know I've posted this in the past but what the heck, I can pull 18bps if I really try on my Red Fly IR3, It has MEM 3.

I was clocked at a scenario in georgia at 18.679 bps, I won 2 cases of paint for having the fastest fingers there.

now you all can say you know someone who can pull 18.

[Marfless]

I like it... want it.. get it...:D

Marfless

[SkeL]

having a 30bps cap is just like having a WAS board. It allows the trigger sensitivity to be higher, allowing the user to achieve a higher rate of fire. I personally love this marker. It does have an opto trigger. Look at the bottom of the page where it has a picture of a trigger and it says "light speed operation." Sounds like opto to me.

[c-note]

for ace go to http://home.swipnet.se/~w-32806/store/inside/nirvana.htm

[Hindean]

Originally posted by c-note
for ace go to http://home.swipnet.se/~w-32806/store/inside/nirvana.htm

c-note;
or call 877-927-7521 and have it done in the states

[Syentific]

Jedrith: That is exactly what I took from the literature as well. It "calibrates" the rate of fire in contrast to what the LDS sensor is reading.

[Fargbollen]

I want one.
It's got everything I feel a great marker should have. Everything is spot on for my taste, even the name.
By the way, the new Mem6/COPS II board really does make the IR3 COPS work great so if the Speed has an improved COPS i'm sure it'll work very well.

Who needs a Timer no one bothers to look at during games?
Who needs IR modes that almost no one uses?
Who cares? If this makes the new model a little cheaper for players to get why not?
30 bps is for redundancy so the marker doesn't limit you in any way (trigger sensitivity is higher) when you shoot fast. Sure 30 is a bit much, but it sells (and you know it!) so WDP did it. Fine with me, even though I'll probably would only use half of that most of the time.
Real low pressure! I guess it really is a fashion statement as well, just like the 30 bps, but since almost all the other high-end markers are like that, WDP probably did it to kill silly arguments like "the Angel isn't as good as a M***x or T***Y" just because they have "low pressure" or 2-3 bps higer MROF (as if it really matters).
Maybe the great minds at WDP who created the original Paintball electro super-gun can finally show the upstarts where it's at.

I agree with Deep Six, this will probably not replace the IR3 as an "IR4" just like the FLY never really replaced the regular LCD or later IR3. After all, not all people want Low pressure and some people do like the fancy timer and IR-stuff and the IR3 is great in its' own right.
But Speed really sounds great and I'm sure it'll be very, very popular.
I want one!

[Squid Vicious]

From what I understand, the LDS is a pressure sensitive COPS anti-chop system with fixed settings. This system senses the amount of pressure exerted on it by the waiting balls and enables higher rates of fire when higher pressure is sensed.

[DYE_Phreak]

I think the SPEED is dumb, its just one way for WDP to make more money cuz they been chargen too much for the ir3s. *sigh* The reign of the angel is getting smaller by the week....and to sum it up, I was expecting to be surprised by it, well folks, to tell you the truth, I was more surprised when BE made a see-thru Talon.

[customIR3...]

hey dye phreak

first of all this speed idea was a great 1 from wdp, a new affordable gun for the people that cant spen 1400, now when someone wants to buy a timmy or a matrix they will also keep in mind that wdp has a gun in the same price range, very smart wdp very smart

[Jedrith]

CustomIR3, Dye is right, they are just trying to keep their death grip on the market. By releasing a 'Cheap' angel they hope to cut into the mid-high end electro's.

[TopCourage]

hey, if it is a way to make money and please the public...i would built it too.....isnt that the idea in the long run.....to make money?

anyways, on a lighter note....once i get the money..i am definetly getting one...

[BURLEY]

but what is the quality of this sensi system compared to COPS2?

[sethicus41]

I was wondering if anyone knew if the internals between the ir3 and the speed are interchangable..

[R.Vogel-Mo's]

Originally posted by sethicus41
I was wondering if anyone knew if the internals between the ir3 and the speed are interchangable..
no they are not

[bunkerd50]

can u put lcd triggers in it???? or ir3 triggers

[WarpedKid02]

I don't think you will be able to put the LCD trigger in it, but maybe the iR3 trigger.

[Eclipse]

by the looks of the pic it most likely takes IR3 trigger cauze there were 3 pivot points on the frame

[SupAirBall]

dude why do people even care? if you owned wdp and you were loosing your name, wouldnt you strive to make it bold again? There are too many politics that cant do anything better than complain all day... chill out dawg.. it was a great ideah on their behalf, whats wrong with a little compeition. You allz are actin as if its ok for other companys to under price wdp markers, yet wdp not having the right to do the same back to them.

I am sellin my angel, and buying a ny xtreme, but I bet you money that this gun OWNZ....

[SCM]

Wait, WDP is trying to make money? This needs to be in late breaking news, it should be on the home page of every web site.

The angel wasn't design to be the most sold gun. The spyder has that and cheap guns like that also will be the most popular.

[SupAirBall]

hmmmm.... independs on what crowd you hang with SCM.. the tourney playas or the kids/newcommers/rec-players.

[nimharimasky]

The LCD is better than this gun IMO, the speed is losing allot of the features that make the angel have such a good resale value. The good thing about angels is you know how many shots are on the board. Would you buy a car that doesnt have an odometer in it? Plus you say its faster but i have never been able to pull more than 15bps on my angel so what good is a 10bps increase gonna do. My experience with lower pressure is not good; impules' and shockers and matrixs all have cocking trouble will this gun have the same problem. Also I think WDP is gonna start to loose customers if they keep jaging people around on thier prices. No body wants to buy somthing only for that same thing to drop $300 in price a month later. Is this the bottom of the price range for WDP, can i feel safe about buying a new angel? Why are they making them soo much cheaper now anyway did they lower the quality? these are all questions in peoples minds. The speed will be a nice gun i mean its an Angel, but I think it ranks lower than the LCD in my opinion; no game timer, no bells and whistles.

[Wonger]

The milling looks like a contour map from geography or something and they probaly would have been better off just covering up the lec and staying with the stock IR3 trigger but it'll be interesting to see how it preforms.

[Chondro]

I think that it'll take a different trigger because it supposedly is externally adjustable. From everything that the press release states it sounds like its a really good deal for what you get. I was about ready to plop down the money, but the body milling is somewhat of a turn off. It sort of reminds me of a WGP Oraccle body. Right now they are selling for a pre-order price of around $900, but is that what they will sell for regularly?

Thanks

[Eclipse]

accordin to one of the sponcers here (mo's paintball) the reg price is 949US

[Docnlk]

Originally posted by nimharimasky
The good thing about angels is you know how many shots are on the board. Would you buy a car that doesnt have an odometer in it? Plus you say its faster but i have never been able to pull more than 15bps on my angel so what good is a 10bps increase gonna do. Also I think WDP is gonna start to loose customers if they keep jaging people around on thier prices. No body wants to buy somthing only for that same thing to drop $300 in price a month later. Why are they making them soo much cheaper now anyway did they lower the quality? these are all questions in peoples minds.

I was thinking about these questions too nimharimasky, but the answers are simple. First off, is a shot counter really that important? No imo, because you have a company that will service a gun and make it shoot like new at 100k shots, so whats the difference? Secondly, on my lcd, raising the mrof from 16 to 20 raised my achieved from 13 to 15 (it does make a difference). Third, the price needs to start coming down because people that can get a timmy, matrix or impulse can get the tricked out custom models (ie lasoya timmy, any impulse, ect.) for the same price or cheaper than a stock IR3.
Basically, to stay competitive in the market, they had to release something that not only can keep up with the faster guns that are hitting the market, but can compete in the price range too. Yeah, it sucks that the prices drop and you basically lose that money that you paid, but technology is like that, and I don't think the speed will make wdp lose customers, it will only expant their market. (not to mention that if you bought an IR3 in the past month, you might have wanted to wait till the 2003 lines came out anyway. Just a thought) As far as quality goes, I think that WDP would never sacrifice quality for price, and their guarantee and warranty go to show that, so quality is not a question.

[toon]

I'm with 2advanced. I already own an LCD fly and I have IR3 fly on the way. I will probably also get a Speed just for the no-frills operation, dual detents and the SENSI. The speed sounds like a marker that complements the HALO B well. Now if only I can find a lighter alternative to 6 AA batteries in the HALO.

[Los]

I like the no frills. I'm sure there will be another marker with the frills, but this looks good to me.

http://www.p8ntballer.com/cgi-bin/news-viewnews.cgi?id=1049735199

[dr.strangelove]

Looks like a combo of the LED and IR3. I wouldn't trade my IR3 for one, but it's got some nice features. I wonder if the new lower pressure LPR, ram and exhaust valve will be compatible with IR3's? If so I might consider buying one of those new LPR's.

However, I sincerely doubt that the IR3 will be phased out in favor of this. Without the LCD screen you lose alot of player/marker interface (no shot counter, no timer, no fault warnings when your board screws up, no maintenance tips, it's generally harder to make sensitive adjustments, like dwell. I prefer an LCD screen myself) I'm also not a fan of the double ball detent system. The battery is smaller (4.8v instead of the previous 6v) don't know how that would affect battery life, especially when using an intellifeed. I'm also not a huge fan of externally adjustable triggers. I like being able to set my trigger pull how I like it, and forget it, and not see it anymore. And the 5 modes of fire are limited to semi I think (it says "5 modes of fire (semi)", not sure what that's all about). I think this will be like the '03 LCD, a mid to high end electro to compete with the timmys, imps etc. But like I said, I doubt it will replace the IR3, and if it does, I certainly won't trade mine for one

[Digitalpunk]

GIMMICK! Exhibit A:

1. Dual Detents - Never had a double feed problem, don't need 2

2. Sensi- For people too lazy to set COPS?

3. Integral Breach O-Ring- So is mine, it's called super glue.

4. Larger Gallery- How many threads are there on how volumizers do nothing?

5. LP Paint Friendly- Isn't that what our Dwell is for?

6. LP Efficiency- Just incase you shoot 1450 shots in one game?

7. Sculped Hammer- Because we all know how often we like to strip the hammers out of our guns and show them off.

8. 30 BPS CAPABLE- 2k2 iR3's are 20bps capable but who hits that?

9. No Safe Mode- For people without 2 seconds to put it into Live?

10. LED over LCD- Come on, it's icky, it looks like it's made for testing your blood pressure, or how romantic you are (you've seen the little love-o-meters)

11. WDP putting their wallets before their loyal customers- Thanks for all the cool new iR3 stuff guys. Oh wait, there is none, you just went on to whoever else you can get money out of next.

My first thoughts when i saw the new "Speed" ... "Well it looks like it's time the sell and upgrade the fastest and best marker out there again... and buy a Timmy!" Ok, that part's a joke, but the rest is true, admit it.

Digital

[SupAirBall]

LOL, you got a point digi...

[SupAirBall]

but still... why complain? let them do what they want.. btw the marker to go to right now isnt a timmah ;) its a NY X matrix :)

[Mac17]

i might want those internals if they will work with a regular ir3, but other wise the led thing is kinda gay, angels are known for the lcd screen, the all those LED's remind me of a spyder, but the internals look really sweet.... if the 14 way doesnt work with my regular ir3 board it might be kinda pointless then

[C.Carles-AOG]

I like the fact that WDP is not resting on their laurels. I like the fact that thay have made better, more efficient internals. I also like the fact that they are realizing that there is a market for "more inexpensive" not "cheaper" electro markers.
Yes, you lose some frills. A lot of people were clamoring for this type of gun, now it comes and all you guys do is slam them. I for one, am glad they made it and can't wait to see what they come up with next. There's two ways about this, either go with technology embracing it and reaping its rewards or get run over by it. It's up to you.

[c-note]

but for how long will the ir3 be in their product line? is it gonna get bumbed out like the lcd, or is it their "top notch" marker?
personally i won't go out on a field without the timer. when things are starting to heat up, i can't be watching a clock. vibes all the way:)

[c-note]

well the price tag isn't that bad. more people will afford to "be in the angel family" and you'll have more money for paint:)

it's almost embarrasing to tell people i've just spent a full paycheck on a marker..


i had my lcd for an year or so, and just got my new ir3, so i'll guess i'm sticking to it for a while. no need to get the "newest, fastest AND coolest gun in the world."

wait for the thing to be tested, patches to be released, and techs that has the sollution to everything that can screw up:)

[Emmit]

threads merged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phoenix]

I am going to get one in Spetember. By that time there will be customs out there, upgrades, and what not. I hope there will be other colors because I am not a fan of dust. I guess that is the fad nowadays, but it isn't my bag. I am just looking forward to getting a brand new system. Anyone want to buy a 2002 Fly setup? :tongue:

[Ir3Flyer19]

Sounds like just a high flow Ram, bolt, valve, and mini reg on a mock ir3 to me and a cheap led board adjusted for a higher rate of fire that no one can probably hit anyways. Another detent will never replace cops2. I guess its just a cheaper price than the ir3. But ive seen plenty of 'low pressure' guns chop and cops set right never chops. I dont really need a speedometer unless im driving. Its more useless than the text.
Otherwise looks like a great gun and I will probably use it as a backup to the real gun.

[SkeL]

This new bolt sounds interesting. I wonder if it's better than current aftermarket bolts such as the cobra,r11 and DEZigns bolts. IF any of you ordered a speed, plz take pic's of the breech and bolt. I'd appreciate it. This gun sounds pretty darn cool, I can't wait to see the other colors.

[tstalion79]

I think people are just jealous that they dont have the newest thing anymore. I really dont get why people think that WDP is no longer one of the leaders in the paintball industry. Simply put, they are. Go to warpig.com and check all the recent tournament galleries of pro teams. Sure, you see timmy's and matrices, but count how many of each, and you will notice that there are MORE angels (usually IR3's) than there are timmys and matrices.

What WDP did is not an attempt of monopolizing the industry by manipulating those who want the "newest and fastest thing", but in stead they realized what the timmy's and matrices had over the angel: Price, pressure (kick, one of previous angel owners biggest complaints), and chopfreeness (yes I made that word up). The speed is their result in an effort to match the advantages that were once had by Bob long and Airtech/Diablo. The angel will rule again :)

Think about comparing the 3 guns:

-Chop free operation- all three guns
-Low pressure/No Kick- all three guns (i would imagine that the speed has very little kick)
-900ish price range - Speed-900 gz/2k2 timmy-900 matrix w/bolt kit and trinity- 900
-Great looks- obviously they all look great. Maybe not the matrix though.

So, there you have it. All WDP did was recognize the problem and eliminate it.

[SupAirBall]

i agree... however.. matrix's arnt ugly u foo... :) im just pickin lol I like mah trixxyz

[dr.strangelove]

"if the 14 way doesnt work with my regular ir3 board it might be kinda pointless then "

??? It didn't mention the speed having a different 14 way than previous angels did it? It's got lower pressure LPR, exhaust valve and ram, but I didn't see anywhere where it mentioned a new 14 way.

And to compare the angel to an intimidator or matrix is just absurd. Looks and performance have always gone hands down to the angel (I've used all three of those markers, the angel has the best looks, trigger feel, and gas efficiency of all of them). Bob Long and Airtech have never had anything over WDP, except price, and their prices are lower because their product isn't as good. But now, for all those people who are too cheap to buy an angel, they have released the speed, it will compete well with timmys, matrixes, imps etc.

I don't think people are jealous that they don't have the "greatest" new marker, because frankly, there's nothing that makes the Speed more "great" than the IR3. It's got one advantage, and that's the LP internals, other than that it's an IR3 with an LED board. This marker is certainly very nice, but I doubt that WDP will phase out the IR3 in favor of it. Why would they phase out their top of the line marker, the one with more features and a much higher price tag (meaning much higher profits for them), for their cheaper LED model? Think about it

[SupAirBall]

lol would u believe that some moron posted on Automags.org an offer of 500 dollars and not a penny more for this dudes new C&C blue ir3 hahahahhaa, i just read it.. he said since speed is out ir3s arnt worth as much.. this is startin bunch of lowballin and its gonna be hardddd to sell lcd's and ir3's now..

[freeloader12345]

30 BPS, who can shoot that fast? I think the speed is going to just add another gun to the electro market. I do think "why make a cheap version of your best product?"

[Emmit]

apparently all the internals are different strangelove......however Ken did say in the Tech Chat last night that WDP is working on retrofitting some of them, specifically i asked about the LPR. I would like to have a rebuildable LPR.

IMO the things that I like about the Speed....the rebuildable LPR, and the switch and go idea. Not that I don't mind having to switch from Live to Safe and back again, now that I'm used to it it doesn't make a difference, when I switched from an LED it was a pain in the ass. IMO the IR3 still has things that I prefer, and I won't be changing.

[Mac17]

"??? It didn't mention the speed having a different 14 way than previous angels did it? It's got lower pressure LPR, exhaust valve and ram, but I didn't see anywhere where it mentioned a new 14 way. "

... not directly but it does say 60% reduction in valve dwell reduces cycle time.... dwell is controlled by the 14 way, which leads me to believe its different in some way.

and id want it to cycle just as fast as the Speed, so thats why i was wondering

[dr.strangelove]

Dwell time is controlled by the board, that's probably what they mean. If it had a new 14 way, I'm sure they would have advertised it (something like "BRAND NEW Super Air Control Maxmized non-Constriction Double Flow Hyper Speed Quadruple Recharge 14 way valve).

Too bad the parts aren't compatible. I hope they retrofit that lower pressure LPR, that'd be some sweet stuff.

[WarpedKid02]

dr.strangelove, Ken last night was telling us in Tech Chat that Frazer is working on retrofiting the parts to fit the LCD and iR3.

[Emmit]

Originally posted by Emmit
apparently all the internals are different strangelove......however Ken did say in the Tech Chat last night that WDP is working on retrofitting some of them, specifically i asked about the LPR. I would like to have a rebuildable LPR.

[PrettyPistol]

i am def gettin one in a month or so if there are no apparent bugs, which i dont expect to see anyway but.....


THEY ARE GOD!!!!

they are everything i could ask for.......
especially an "on" switch without the electric safety s***. it is way annoying, and paint sensing systems kick butt...
peeps need to read the whole thread before they post, it has been asked like 20xmes if the internals are the same as ir3 and everytime they are told NOOOO.


props to WDP for making a good priced competitive gun..

[Foosheezee]

So there will be no live or safe mode? That's cool, i guess people who can't deal with holding a button down for more that 3 seconds can finaly have their worthless day in the sun.

[WarpedKid02]

No -LIVE or -SAFE- mode. Turn on, and go...

[EZE]

Missed the tech chat. Was there any discussion on the trigger on the speed; Switch/Opto? And how it is different than the current IR3 other than being externally adjustable? I've got one on pre-order and will do a complete comparison with my IR3 once it's in. Shooting wise that is.

[Emmit]

EZE it is an optical type of trigger.

It will take it's own triggers not IR3 triggers

[Benfrain]

Well, at the end of the day, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. People can blow smoke up somethings arse as much as they want but we won't know until we use it for ourselves and make up our own minds.

I have pre-ordered one, I honestly think it looks a bit ugly! The LED is dreadfull, but if it shoots better/faster than an IR3 (I am having trouble with my IR3/HaloB combo at present) and works great right out of the box I couldn't give a monkeys!

If not - it'll be for sale within days!

[Kriptic]

haha Digital that stuff was sweet!
however, there are some hings to think about:
1.) The Dwell does noting with "low Pressure" it simply determines how long the valve(right name???) will be open for. So the low press. thing IS a new thing from them.
2.) 1450 shots per game!!!! have you seen some of the back players on pro teams? bringing in a case of paint is nothing to some of these crazy guys... Too bad that they stil can't win even with all that firepower hehe Think even of like 8 140 round pods. and some teams bring out like 11 or 14 its nuts!
3.) you seem preety correct on all that other stuff though hehe. that love-o-meter comment is hilarious. BUT in this guns defense, it's not an IR3 pimp machine, it won't get you liaid (well maybe) and it costs less... im thinking this gun is perfect for those guys who want a second angel to add to their collection of IR3 and LCDs but don't want to front too much $$$ this way the SPEED is the backup for your IR3 or the LCD could now backup your new Speed.. .the "lazy" features are for not those too incompetent to do it themselves, but for those who just don't care... they just want to turn it on and play without adjustign anything.. this gun is really for more or less the "player" and less for those techs and crazy people who modify thier settings every week. Its just to work well, shoot fast and play! Also the 30bps is nuts! i know i know but al lit means is that it is somethign to do wit h the trigger sensitivity like if you make the MROF on IR3 higher from like 14-18 you will be able to squeek out and extra bal lor 2 per second... thats true.
ps. warped will pimp out the Speed and it'll be out like three months after the Speeds release :sshh:

daddy likes...:clap:

[tommyd]

i spoke to ron the other day...LDS is cops with refinments same principles the only issue i have is the LED display. all thoose lights better not be on all the time because i play night woods games i can't have that. So i hope they are all on just to show how many it has. And the milling reminds me of a topography map. NP tho because i got one coming back with the local novice team.

[SupAirBall]

hmmm optical trigger? can you please explain that to me? Is it sorta like an optical mouse for computers? lmk

[Docnlk]

there is no micro switch. It is kinda like an optical mouse. The only thing is that with optical, there is really no bounce point. So you just gotta be fast.

[Jedrith]

The whole thing with LP is crazy. The valve has to be open longer for this to work, so dwell plays a role in this happening. They must change what the dwell equals. My LCD is on 14 dwell 280 FPS could not equal a LP 14 dwell 280 FPS.

[PrettyPistol]

why do people keep saying this gun is a second to an ir3?
it seems to me to have a ton of upgrades that make it better.
and none of the crap peolpe dont. (cep the lcd screen). it looks pretty kickin to me, can't wait to get my hands on one....

[gremlin75]

Originally posted by Emmit
apparently all the internals are different strangelove......however Ken did say in the Tech Chat last night that WDP is working on retrofitting some of them, specifically i asked about the LPR. I would like to have a rebuildable LPR.

How bout the ram?? no sanp ring sounds like a good thing to me.

later
gremlin

[PrettyPistol]

anyone know if the old tools will still work?

[Howitzer11]

Help!?! Someone please tell WDP to stop packing the marker with a barrel. No one uses it, and everyone could share in the savings. I dont know maybe they use it across the pond. Just think about savings of the barrel, tighter packaging maybe a little more savings. Heck next thing you know we will have an LED AIR without the skins.
Sweet marker I am signed up.

[Jedrith]

Actually some people really like their barrel. Or at least the old users that still have their Jacko barrel. But you are right, most people do ditch their stock barrel. I don't see many around anymore.

[the-arch-angel]

actually the only reason the older ones like in 2001 and older werent that good was because of the tiny bore size it was like 686 but they changed it now they have them to like 688 and ther awsome. i mean dont get me rong i have a freak on mine but the infiniti is probably the best stock barrel out there, besides of course like a impulse with a freak. just my 2 cents

[PrettyPistol]

yah, the jacko is pretty sweet.

[A-F_Army911]

the SPEED is just the 2003 LED. IR3 still kick ass.

[Panzerr]

Originally posted by Deep Sixx
Low pressure is a gimmick IMO... I break less paint in my iR3 and LCD than I ever did with my Impulse (which had an LPR mod... bolt pressure was <100psi).


Negative Johansen.

Look at it this way. If i were to place your head on a stump and hit it with a bat with a mass and velocity that would give it 100 psi of force, your head would split open like the Gallager on a watermelon. Now, If I take a different bat that has a mass and velocity that would give it 60 psi of force, your head would still split open, but your brains wouldn't fly all over the people in the front row.

[C.Carles-AOG]

LP is a BY PRODUCT of the search for better efficiency. People started refining the materials they worked with, the finish, honing, polishing, etc. all the parts on a gun because parts with more exacting tolerances and less friction between them will perform better and last longer. In doing this they noticed that the operating pressures of the gun was lower as well so the gun was indeed operating more efficiently.
Unfortunately people along the way forgot that ther is always an equilibrium. There's a point where no matter how good your internals are they still need a certain psi to operate efficiently. People stopped measuring how many good, consistant shots you get out of a gun and only started to look at the psi gauges to see how low they could go.
A very well tuned cocker built with the best parts in the world can operate at 200psi, but you would get a bit of shootdown and your tank would get fewer shots. However, same LP gun set at 250-300 is amazing with efficiency AND performance.
LP is not a gimmick, LP only measured by a psi gauge is. Notice that the ram in the Angel still needs a certain amount of psi to operate well, or you have effectively limited the ability of the part to cycle, hence less bps. Less BPS! Now I have your attention...ugh

[EZE]

In reality, low pressure/high pressure; other than a good debate, what does it really mean. Do we really care that instead of running our guns at 350 with lpr at 95 that now we'll run at 200 with lrp at 60? No, in reality we don't care.

BUT if you say that your gun will be quieter, smoother shooting and easier on paint then we care; right? Absolutely.

[A-F_Army911]

Very True. If you put it in terms that we can all understand and put to use more people will turn their heads.

[Howitzer11]

Question, can the low pressure internals for the speed be installed in the IR3? I would suspect if the dwell range on the IR3 is sufficient this would work no?

[C.Carles-AOG]

During the Tech Chat Ken said Frazer said (get that? lol) they were looking at possibly retrofitting parts. As of right now apparently the parts are not interchangeable.

[gremlin75]

retrofit would be awsome.

later
Gremlin

[Los]

retrofit please. I like my Mamba milling much better

[A-F_Army911]

i think that even if they do retro fit the lpr that it wouldnt make a difference.. unless you play recball, and have to conserve your air. As for the tourny players, we fill up after everygame (not to mention have all day air), so therefore i c the retrofitted lpr a waste green.

[I.R.Three]

Sounds like a real nice marker. Looks like a Dark Angel with the bottom of the trigger guard removed. I will stick with my IR3 for now as it shoots faster than I ever will.

Hands up everyone who loves WDP!! oh, oh oh, ME-ME-ME.

[A-F_Army911]

i feel the same.. i love my ir3.

[Nasty Little Hobbit]

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I am a new Angel owner so I have read all the posts on this subject and checked with some friends who might have info on this new toy. It appears to me that it is a no frills, very fast paint slinging machine. It seems as though this is going to be the perfect gun for the tourney player who doesn't have aton of cash to spend. The majority of the functions don't even get used in tourneys. You can only use semi anyways. Not having a timer will need to be taken care of but they aren't that hard to find.

Putting the rate of fire aside, it's reported to be smaller, lighter, more efficient (nice for a back guy in ten man), easier on paint, and smother firing. What more could we ask for in a tournament gun? Race cars don't have CD palyers or AC, So why do we need all the bells and whistles on a competition marker?

[SalEsh]

so there is no ACE in the new speed..? wtf is with that.. whats this LDS thing then...

[Jedrith]

Is senses if there is paint in the breech by the weight of the ball.

[j_gets]

Originally posted by SalEsh
so there is no ACE in the new speed..? wtf is with that.. whats this LDS thing then...

Read before you post.

Originally posted by tommyd
i spoke to ron the other day...LDS is cops with refinments same principles....



J

[Benfrain]

Anybody know if the Speed has the gated feed? Trawled through all the info I can find but no mention of gated feed.

Plus the video at FON showed balls blowing back up the hopper so I suppose not.

Do you think a gated feed from an IR3 would fit? Can't think of any reason why not...

[j_gets]

From TAG
...
Reduced Valve Dwell by 60%
Gated Feed Tube
LPR is serviceable
Etc.
....

Balls coming up in the egg tube are due to blowback. Probably hadn't made it past the gated feed yet. Also notice in the second segment/hopper that there isn't any ball-bobbeling/blowback at the end of the hopper. Presumably because it was after he had time to mess with it a bit


J

[dwylie75]

It does have gated feed. he might not of had it in

[Chondro]

According to an Angel tech that I spoke with; he personally feels that efficiency is going to suffer because of the whole low pressure thing. Low pressure equals a higher volume of air. He also says that he thinks that the IR3 is a way better gun due to the fact that you can fine tune it more (sens levels, dwell, rof, etc).

[Benfrain]

Ok, thanks for that. Well, I've sold my Rock IR3 and am now waiting delivery of my dust black Speed. Will let you all know what I think once it's here...

[j_gets]

Originally posted by Chondro
According to an Angel tech that I spoke with; he personally feels that efficiency is going to suffer because of the whole low pressure thing. Low pressure equals a higher volume of air. He also says that he thinks that the IR3 is a way better gun due to the fact that you can fine tune it more (sens levels, dwell, rof, etc).

Geez guys, do I have to keep setting you straight?

First off, low pressure as a byproduct of better gas flow does not equal more air used. Low pressure for the sake of low pressure does. If you'll read the information in the online 'brochures' they have achieved 1400+ shots on a 68/4500 tank. Sounds pretty damn efficient to me, at least as efficient as the current (IR3) models. So, I call BS.

Secondly, notice the lights on the board for dwell, sensi, etc? They ARE adjustable (not sure on ROF, doesn't sound like it, doesn't really matter w sensi.) The board just doesn't spell out 'DWELL' in all the IR3's LCD glory. Big friggin whoop. If you don't believe me, go over to PBN and read some of the posts from ditangquan, a guy who picked one up at Vegas. He mentions dwell and sensi settings and what worked best for him (dwell of 12 vs 8, sensi off or at 2, for example.) If they're not adjustable, how'd he change 'em?

I'm too tired to sugar coat anything so I'm just gonna lay it right out there:
People are always afraid of change. Get over it. Does that mean you should go out and buy one? Not necessarily. Does it mean you should knock the nay-saying the heck off at least until you have some base of experience with which to back up your blab? Hell yeah.


J

[Chondro]

I am not knocking anything. From everything that I have read, it sounds like the Speed is more bang for the buck (faster, less unnecessary feartures, etc). I am was just quoting what a WDP master tech said to me when I asked his opinion of the Speed so don't shoot the messenger. This same tech also said that the sensi is either on or off and it can not be adjusted like the IR3. I am a WDP faithful and have confidence that the Speed is going to be everything that they advertise it to be.

[j_gets]

Sorry, didn't make it clear that that wasn't directed towards you but rather to all the haters (master tech's included) who believe hear-say, and portray opinion as fact to support their bias. Like I said, I'm very tired and missed that distinction. I apologize.



J

[Docnlk]

I always thought their were two types of people in this game,
1. people who buy stuff first, try it, and let people know how it worked for them.
2. People who wait for the #1's of the world to relay information and then make a decision.
but now, after the announcement of the speed, I noticed a distinct #3. Those who believe everything that is said about something, and trick themselves into believing they know how well, or poor something works without ever touching it.
Angel owners web group, being the well classed and educated people we all are (owning angels can be proof of that. lol) should not be #3's. It's the 14th, the guns ship today, and by the end of next weekend, there will be a bevy of information from actual useage. Why don't people wait till then to do the trashing or otherwise. Everybody might learn something.

[garycarrot]

Anyone had a go of one yet!!!!! Cause it looks good to me.

[Emmit]

Eric just posted in one of the other threads that they are in the process of clearing customs to come into the US....other than that the only people that have any would be people that bought them in Vegas, and noone here seems to be owning up to it.....guess you guys across the pond might have to wait til the event in Germany to see it.....

[Benfrain]

WDP are not releasing any until this coming weekend. The official european launch is at the Max masters...

LPS will be able to release their stock (my marker included!) on the Saturday morning so I am hoping by some kind of mirracle I manage to get it from London to me in time for a tournament leg I have on Sunday...

If all goes well, I will post a review once I've given it a thorough going over...

[Emmit]

6-12 cases......damn man.....you actually gonna play paintball or just shoot at targets all day....

[Foosheezee]

They have not cleared customs, will be at wdp usa by fri. they are not taking pre orders so it is a bitch for dealers, hope my shop will get three by next week

[C.Carles-AOG]

Who's not taking pre-orders? I believe the sponsors are.

[j_gets]

No, he's saying that WDP isn't taking pre-orders for shops to buy speeds from WDP.


J

[Docnlk]

well, let's hope they ship a lot of them, cuz I just ordered mine, and I need it for a tourney by the 26th. *Crossing Fingers*

[C.Carles-AOG]

Cutting it close aren't we Doc?

[matthepepe]

unless by chance they come into the stores today, which i doubt, but its possible, your gonna be cutting it real close.

[Docnlk]

yeah, I know, but I still have my 2k2 lcd that rips, so I'll be fine. I saw in a post from mos that they were pretty sure they would be out, like in our hands, by midweek. I know mos shipping is pretty fast, at least to my house, because we have one of the biggest ups hubs right here in town, so I pray that it will get here.

[Hindean]

Originally posted by matthepepe
unless by chance they come into the stores today, which i doubt, but its possible, your gonna be cutting it real close.

We started receiving ours yesterday and started shipping them out to our retail customers,
So other stores in the US should also be getting them from WDP very very soon.
they are definitly worth the wait, (as is all products from WDP :)

[C.Carles-AOG]

Thanks for the update Hindean.

[Docnlk]

rock on, thanks hindean.

[matthepepe]

Originally posted by Hindean
We started receiving ours yesterday and started shipping them out to our retail customers,
So other stores in the US should also be getting them from WDP very very soon.
they are definitly worth the wait, (as is all products from WDP :)

once again i was wrong, lol, thanks for the update im sure people will be happy to know this.

[Lil'_Matt]

That's too bad...they should have a red

[Docnlk]

Originally posted by Lil'_Matt
That's too bad...they should have a red

I would assume you are talking about color options? Just wasn't something mentioned in this post much. Red would be cool, or my personal favorite... green, but I don't think green dust would look to good, and dust seems the trend.

[IMPerfection]

man now I'm torn between a RAT Impulse with upgrades and a black dust Speed.... crap

[C.Carles-AOG]

So when can we expect it??? Looking forward to it Jason.

[D7Productions]

I'm keeping my LCD. Ive never had problems with it. I honestly can't shoot around even 20bps, and dont know anyone who can, so 30bps isn't that necessary for me. I know it sells, and I know it makes it more sensitive. But I dont need it. As for the low pressure operation, I don't chop anyway, and I play tourneys where I refill after every game, so it's not a big deal for me. I like having the LCD screen too, but dont need any stupid options like IR3 text messaging. I'm sure many will agree with me, and after reading this forum, many more will disagree. It's just my opinion.

[Trevor]

Can any dealer give me a wieght on the speed?

[Roy]

I like the externialy adjustible triger.. A god send for those who cant stop tinkering !

[TeTra PuNk0120]

I've been telling people for a LONG time that WDP is goin to come out with a LED.......but OMG I DIDNT THINK IT WAS GUNNA OWN THIS MUCH!!! i was thinking they were gunna take a lcd slap an led frame on it and sell it for 500-600....but NOO wdp makes another ownage gun!

[3speed0]

sic i gotta get me one

[RyanR]

Originally posted by IMPerfection
man now I'm torn between a RAT Impulse with upgrades and a black dust Speed.... crap

If you havent already decided, im guna tell you to get the speed. lol
This gun is just sick, a low pressur angel with 30 bps. I wouldnt even consider buying a rat, but hey get whatever ya want :bouncer:

[ronrob]

i was at the psp here in vegas this week end the had a ocean green set up as a demo wouldn't comment if the where producing this color

[Putt]

The speed rocks! Not sure if you can use a halo but you can use an egg. We shot a case of evil paint though it and broke one ball! Using the pipe barrel. And yes we did lay the hammer down. Speed is named right. The only thing that i am not to thrilled about is the trigger. Not sure what kind of mods are coming down but right now the trigger is little long. I still think I am going to plop down a grand and get one of these bad boys.

[sre4life]

This is my frist Angel and I have to say I am a SPEED junkie!

[Kriptic]

the dual ball detent allows you to use halos or eggs... if you get an egg... slap on that Y board... i guess speeds were designed wit halos in mind...

[moesizlack]

Just got mine in yesterday. I love it to death. It jsut absolutley rips!

[monkeeman777]

speed easily replaced the speed ( = im hoping to sell my lcd and get 1 soon

[thegreatego]

y did u revive this thread, its dead, let it go