Evolve Newton Valve Lite

[jdp72]

I heard that Evolve has discontinued making the Newton valves for the pre-G7 platforms. Is this true?

Also, now that the Newton Valve has been out for some time now, looking back...is this a mod that you would have done all over again? Or is it just not worth the hassle?

Thanks.

[Trigga Nometry]

I haven't read anywhere that they are going to discontinue the pre-G7 kits so I have no idea on that.

As far as the Lit kit in general - it is awesome when you have it running properly. You just need to have it either installed by someone that knows what they are doing (like one of the MTs). Stay away from the Evolve LPR Adjusting Cap. It works, but really not that well. Many, many people have had problems with it.

[jdp72]

I haven't read anywhere that they are going to discontinue the pre-G7 kits so I have no idea on that.

I got word back from Lucky Paintball, I guess they are the US Distributors for Evolve or something, and he says they are DISCONTINUED. No reason given... So I'm wondering if they think there is no longer a demand, and/or if they were having problems with it.

[boostmonkey]

There might just be a sufficient number of them in stock in various places and there is no reason to produce any more.

I have shot A4 Flys with the Evolve kit and I have a very similar DIY kit on my A4 Fly also and I 100% RECOMMEND getting an Evolve kit. It is the end of kick. You will love it. My Fly has way less kick than any non-Evolved Angel I have shot including the A1.

Trigga is right, don't bother with the Evolve LPR adjuster. If you want external adjustabillity, get the JDS.

You can tune it yourself. But you need to set aside 2 cases of paint, at lest several hours of time, and you need to read pretty much everything in the Evolve forum here. Your first time or two playing on the field with it should be for "test & tune" NOT a major tourney. ;) OR send it to an MT :)

[RangerJoe]

Forgot about like 5 filled tanks lol and you should get a Boost Gauge :)

[jdp72]

Trigga is right, don't bother with the Evolve LPR adjuster. If you want external adjustabillity, get the JDS.

What is a JDS and where can I buy one?

[thatguy!]

http://www.stdindustry.com/store.htm

It is seks.

[jdp72]

You can tune it yourself. But you need to set aside 2 cases of paint, at lest several hours of time, and you need to read pretty much everything in the Evolve forum here. Your first time or two playing on the field with it should be for "test & tune" NOT a major tourney. ;) OR send it to an MT :)


Man this is sounding like a lot of work tweaking it... 2 cases of paint? I don't understand why it's so hard, which I'm sure it is...but it sounds like you install all the stuff (<1hr), set the LPR in the correct range and then shoot over the chrono until you hit a consistent 285-290. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of steps, but what all stuff could there be to tweak? This is beginning to sound like a lot more hassle than it's worth... I am adverse to having an MT do it, just on the principle that if something goes down I would like to know how to fix/correct it.

I'm looking at the money... $100 for the lite kit, $60 for the JDS(I know it's optional but I've always hated trying to dial in the LPR with those darn shims, and you can never get increments between 1-8psi)...plus if I did it to one I would have to do it to the other. That is money I could put to an Angel1.

I guess I need some assurances that this is an upgrade that allows me to just install it, tweak it, and just play weekly... I work and have a family and I don't have the time to keep messing with something. Right now both of my Angels are 100% maintenance free. I literally just wipe off the paint from hits, put it in the bag, and other than a battery from time to time, it powers up and shoots week after week reliably and consistently. Although I would love to have no-kick, but not at the expense of a lot more work. What do you guys think?

[RangerJoe]

BoB installed teh Kit and Ram for only $40....plus about 30 for shipping(assurance and normal shipping fee)

[jdp72]

BoB installed teh Kit and Ram for only $40....plus about 30 for shipping(assurance and normal shipping fee)

Have you had any problems with your marker, or do you perform your own tune ups? And if so, how often and at what point do you consider sending in to an MT is worth the time and money that you spend not having your marker to use? If it is only once a year for a tune up, then $70 doesn't sound so bad, but if it is 3-4 times a year then it hardly seems worth it.

Just trying to get a feel of how maintenance free this thing is going to be for me in the long run (long run = 2 years before I get another Angel). The feeling I get is that the Newton valve is a PIA to work on and tune.

[RangerJoe]

I bought this last may....shipped it to him for initial installation....havnt had big problems....just had to switch to a bigger o-ring and get new rod...im not sure how old you are..but im 14 and it wasnt that big of a thing for me....yea it is a pain at times but whens it right the kit is a beast.

[jdp72]

Yeah I'm quite a bit older than 14. All 3 of my kids are a lot closer to your age than you are to mine...

On a whim I just ended up buying the kit...maybe the fear of it no longer being available later played into it. So I thought it best to buy them it before Bob ran out...which I think he already has. Not sure when I will have time to install it, a matter of fact I can't see how much less kick my markers can have at this point...but I'm definitely willing to find out. I hope I'm not disappointed. I ended up buying the JDS as well.

I'll probably end up buying the latest and greatest Angel next season or something...

[boostmonkey]

Are you putting the evolve kit & JDS on the flied force 4 or the flied speed? When tuned properly it WILL reduce kick, trust me. To almost nothing. Post up when you install it and we'll help recommend settings.

[Talon]

I currently run an Evolve Lite and JDS LPR on my Force Fly...and I wouldn't have it any other way at this point. As far as tuning the Evolve Lite, it's not bad at all. If memory serves, the only thing to adjust on the actual Lite kit is the grub screw on the front to reduce blowback. Unfortunately, adjusting that will require some adjustment with your LPR as well, but since you also have the JDS LPR that shouldn't be a problem.

I purchased a pressure gauge and the required connectors to attach the gauge to the M5 grub screw hole in the back of the marker, just behind the faceplate so I could monitor the LPR pressure during tuning. I found the parts at www.LubeUSA.com. Give them a call and they'll get you hooked up with the gauge, M5x1 connector and a connector to go between the two to adapt the threads. Find the LPR pressure you want and set it on the JDS, run some shots through it and make sure you are where you need to be as far as paintball velocity. Take off your hopper and drop two paintballs into the feedneck. Fire it once and observe the behavior of the top ball. If it jumps out of the feedneck, turn the grub screw clockwise, try some clearing shots and then adjust your input pressure or LPR as necessary to get you to the speed you want to be shooting. Repeat until satisfied.

[RangerJoe]

.....isnt that the same as boost's gauge? and thats good claification on how to tune it...;)

[jdp72]

Are you putting the evolve kit & JDS on the flied force 4 or the flied speed? When tuned properly it WILL reduce kick, trust me. To almost nothing. Post up when you install it and we'll help recommend settings.

I am getting the evolve and the JDS in both the Force4 and the Speed. I know it's not the best way to go about it, I could have probably sold both markers now and saved the money on all the upgrades and just bought 2 used A1's after Christmas, or something...

I will most definitely post up for advice when it all comes in. I will do it slowly one at a time...that way I always have a fully operational marker to use.

THANKS!

[jdp72]

I purchased a pressure gauge and the required connectors to attach the gauge to the M5 grub screw hole in the back of the marker, just behind the faceplate so I could monitor the LPR pressure during tuning. I found the parts at www.LubeUSA.com. Give them a call and they'll get you hooked up with the gauge, M5x1 connector and a connector to go between the two to adapt the threads.

I'm having a problem navigating through their site, I'll probably just call them for all the parts... Or I wonder if Boost has any more for sale?

[Technix2002]

I'm having a problem navigating through their site, I'll probably just call them for all the parts... Or I wonder if Boost has any more for sale?

http://angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=57776

You should either E-mail him at the.mineman@gmail.com or PM him to find out if he has any in stock.

[jdp72]

Ok I got most of my stuff...the JDS and long and short hammer Evolve kits, now I am just wait'in on Boost's valve that I just ordered.

A few questions while I am waiting around for that...

Is the only difference between the A4 and Speed Evolve kit the hammer length? I noticed that everything is the same except the red hammer is longer for the Speed. Question 2, I noted that the rod valve pin thing is different... Not sure which goes on which, or if it makes a difference. They both are the same length, just one has threads on both ends, and the other doesn't. I'll attach pics so you know what I am talking about.

I also splurged a bit and bought the Evolve Ram kit (also pictured)...hopefully it's the same ram assembly for both markers. A question with that. Do I have to take the plastic clear spacer between the stock hammer and ram assembly off and put it in between the Newton delrin hammer and ram assembly (I was hoping that by buying the ram assembly I would avoid taking the stock hammer and ram apart).

Anyways, any more tips or things to buy before I start tearing 2 very functional markers apart?

[BoB]

Hammer is the only difference. Two different production runs of the valve. Yes, you want to use the ram bumper.

[jdp72]

Hammer is the only difference. Two different production runs of the valve. Yes, you want to use the ram bumper.

Is neither superior in performance to the other? I would imagine changes would be made due to manufacturing efficiencies, manufacturing cost efficiencies, or performance enhancements, or a combination or all of the above...

[boostmonkey]

Oh no, the last part you are waiting on is from me?! I got your Paypal payment tonight, I will get it shipped out to you tomorrow.

To take the hammer off the ram shaft (to get the bumper off) I have had good success with using 2 pieces of automotive heater hose. I find a piece of heater hose that is just the right size to slide over the ram & hammer (I have things like this "in stock" in my garage). I cut a short section to go over the ram and one around the hammer. I put the ram in a bench vices and tighten it gently. I use vice grips around the hose on the hammer and it twists right off. Don't forget to remove the set screw!

[jdp72]

Oh no, the last part you are waiting on is from me?! I got your Paypal payment tonight, I will get it shipped out to you tomorrow.

LOL! Hey the pressure's on boost for that LPR gauge (not sure why I said valve up there)!

I'll probably use your method...but I always remember to easily break up stubborn loc-tite you put the parts to be seperated in boiling water for like a minute.

Here is an example:
http://www.kamworld.net/paintball/ImpulseFAQ_Technical.html#T25

[Talon]

Yes. The gauge I have is very similar if not the same as the one Boost was offering. If I remember right though, when I needed one he either didn't have them available yet or was currently out. The company I work for actually does a lot of business with Lube USA and they hooked me up which is probably the main reason I chose to not order from Boost, sorry dude.

[RangerJoe]

I'll probably use your method...but I always remember to easily break up stubborn loc-tite you put the parts to be seperated in boiling water for like a minute.

Here is an example:
http://www.kamworld.net/paintball/ImpulseFAQ_Technical.html#T25
I guess it would work but I would never do it....dont know just a lil scared i guess lol i managed to blemish the ram and most people did when they installed it...but BoB being the guy he is, he lighlty sanded and buffed them out.

[ikya97]

Just wanted to get some feedback on whether I should get this for my 05 speed? I have the JDS LPR, large WDP Volumnizer on exhaust valve side, stock board (s/w ver 2) and powerlite barrel kit. My LPR is set at 45 and input is 200-250 range. I would like to reduce kick and sound if thats possible but really want to reduce the kick.

Thanks

BTW, these things are very hard...but froogle helps.

[RangerJoe]

how do you have lpr set at 45? mines at 45 at i have the lite kit.....

[ikya97]

To Range,

The LPR for STD was factory set to 65 and I have shot a couple of cases of paint thru it. I made a gauge to check my LPR from the back of the marker....removed 5m slug screw in the back and thats how I made the adjustment.

[RangerJoe]

no i know to to..i have a std too....(lol)and the gauge. but thats kinda low....

[jdp72]

Ok what I thought would be the hard part was pretty easy...which was taking the hammer off the ram shaft.

Now I can't remember how the rubber bumper goes on. There is a flat side and a bumpy side... I think the bumpy side goes up against the new delrin hammer. Can someone confirm with me.

JDS was pretty simple to put on...although I can't get the back grub screw off to put Boost's LPR gauge on.

[BoB]

smooth/flatside goes against the hammer

[jdp72]

smooth/flatside goes against the hammer

Thanks Bob, good thing I asked.

I guess I spoke to soon about taking the stock hammer off. Now I can't take it off on my Speed.

Darn loc-tite works too well! Neither rear grub screws, to put on Boost's LPR gauge will budge, nor will this stock hammer budge off my Speed. I am about to try the boiling thing...Bob any tips from an MT's perspective on how to get these things off? I am more concerned with the grub screws... I've got 3 bent and twisted 2.5 mm allen keys. I tried heating the screws with a lighter...still won't budge.

[BoB]

MAPP gas

[jdp72]

MAPP gas

Bob if you are serious then that is what I am going to do next... These darn things will not budge after 2 minutes with those mini-torches.

It says on the loc-tite website that it takes 325F and above for standard loc-tite and 500F for the permanent stuff. It says to use a heat gun or propane torch.

I will strip down the marker bodies sometime this week and hopefully the heat does not hurt the marker body or the anodizing in any way...

How long should I heat the grub screw with MAPP gas?

[BoB]

Just a few seconds and remember to turn clock wise first then counter

[BoB]

I recommend placing the ram in a glass of water, when you heat the hammer

[jdp72]

Bob:

Awesome water tip, would have never thought of that on my own. I was thinking of trying to shield it with something (thought about wood until I remembered it was a combustible, LOL!).

[jdp72]

Just a few seconds and remember to turn clock wise first then counter

MAPP gas worked like a champ on the Speed hammer and Speed grub screw, gave it about 5 seconds a piece. The 5 seconds may have even been too long, it gave the stainless steel hammer a blue/brown haze...and cracked someone's coffee mug at work, LOL!

The MAPP did nothing on the Force 4, even after 45 seconds (I was too scared to go any longer). After years of sitting in place it was like it was welded in place. Gave the body to the company welder and he zapped it for a few seconds with acetylene... SUCCESS! Was able to finally move the screw, albeit it was still darn near impossible to turn the allen wrench. The shop guy couldn't believe how much trouble I had with it. If the acetylene didn't work he was going to drill it out and use an EZ-out. He figured who ever put it on there must have used some sort of epoxy and didn't think it was ever meant to be removed.

In any event, now that the screw is out and I can get the gauge on...I'm a little gun shy to put any loc-tite on the grub screw. Should I be worried at all? Obviously I'll use the blue, NOT the red, green or any sort of epoxy. I was thinking of teflon tape, but the fear of a little piece of tape in my marker also makes me nervous.

Oh, and I put the JDS on, set it to 45 psi. Put the dwell on 10. Put the new newton volumiser, spring and valve stem in. I shot it, it started leaking like crazy, started screwing in the front volumiser spring, stopped leaking...but I heard a tiny HISSS... Put some Love Juice down into the valve and shot it through the marker... Still a tiny hiss...sounds like the velve stem is leaking every so slightly on the valve body. It's getting too late now so I put it away for tomorrow's project. I have 2 cases of paint and my personal big red chrony to use tomorrow. Hopefully I get the leak figured out and I can use it Thursday night during team practice.

THANKS!

[thatguy!]

Raise your input to 300 psi. This puts more pressure on the cup seal. Chrono and adjust the velocity with the screw in the evolve cap.

I use Blue on my grub screw with no difficulty.

[ikya97]

At this website:

http://www.compulsivepaintball.com/itemdesc.asp?product=Evolve+Newton+Valve+Lite+%2D+ Dust+Black++&ic=15932

can someone tell me which hammer goes in the 05 Speed?

Has anyone heard about the valve pin being to short? what is the correct length? Can I just a longer screw from like home depot or lowes to fix this?

[thatguy!]

All the kits use the same hammer. It's a 10g delrin/SS. The one on the right is a 6g, and they are not generally used (probably not even included) because they have a tendency to break.

If the complete length of the rod from tip to tip is 4.5 inches, you are where you need to be. My adjustment screw WAS too short (I couldn't get the velocity down unless my input was looow) so I found a new, longer one in the garage.

[jdp72]

Raise your input to 300 psi. This puts more pressure on the cup seal. Chrono and adjust the velocity with the screw in the evolve cap.

I bumped it up to 300 psi...I really hate that Angel gauge with that tiny window and the wheel with numbers and colors. It's hard to tell what the settings are...why didn't WDP just use a standard gauge? I tried to put a normal 0-300psi gauge on there, but I think it's non-standard NPT threaded...I could be wrong.

In any event, the tiny HISS still persists...I wonder if I got a bad valve rod thing? Also, what happens when the valve rod cup seal goes bad, which it eventually will? You used to be able to just replace the old valve pin and put a new one in...but now it seems you would have to replace the whole thing...sounds costly!

Anyways, I'll work on the HISS more tonight...hopefully I get it fixed.

[Trigga Nometry]

IIn any event, the tiny HISS still persists...I wonder if I got a bad valve rod thing? Also, what happens when the valve rod cup seal goes bad, which it eventually will? You used to be able to just replace the old valve pin and put a new one in...but now it seems you would have to replace the whole thing...sounds costly!

Anyways, I'll work on the HISS more tonight...hopefully I get it fixed.Bob posted this a while back that helped find the root cause of some Evolve Kit leaks:

All of my new ones are 11.43cm or 4.5 inches Pulled one out of my fly and it is the same length. Let us know what Evolve says and/or recommends.

Hope it helps

[jdp72]

Is Bob saying some of the Newton valve rods are too short or something?

I have 2 valve rod versions that are the same exact length...One that has threading on both ends and one that is just one complete piece. Please see my earlier post with pictures for more clarification.

I was looking at the cup seal part of kit and it does not look as clean or smooth as the WDP cup seal area of my other pins.

[Trigga Nometry]

Yes, Evolve had some stems that were too short and you had to contact Evolve for a replacement. The seal should be completely clean and smooth. At least the ones I have seen were all smooth. They do take the shape of the valve housing after using them for a while but that is normal.

[BoB]

Remove the valve guide, clean well, re-grease and re-install. Also, make sure to put grease on the evolve valve seal.

[jdp72]

I messed with it last night again...now it's affecting my sleep. I can't get the hiss to go away. I greased/relubed, everything. I put the stock parts back in and WAH-LAH the leak goes away. Put the Evolve parts in, and hisssssss. It is doing it on both Evolve valve rods, so it must be me, or I have EXTREMELY poor luck to have 2 faulty kits.

So at this point I've taken 2 very good markers and put the JDS and Evolve kit in and it shoots like crap. Actually the JDS regulator is awesome

Bob I'll probably be sending both of these markers in to you...unless I get a hold of Eric. For some reason I haven't seen Eric or his brother in a long while, I don't think they even showed up for the Chicago Open this year...

[boostmonkey]

I bumped it up to 300 psi...I really hate that Angel gauge with that tiny window and the wheel with numbers and colors. It's hard to tell what the settings are...why didn't WDP just use a standard gauge? I tried to put a normal 0-300psi gauge on there, but I think it's non-standard NPT threaded...I could be wrong.

In any event, the tiny HISS still persists...I wonder if I got a bad valve rod thing? Also, what happens when the valve rod cup seal goes bad, which it eventually will? You used to be able to just replace the old valve pin and put a new one in...but now it seems you would have to replace the whole thing...sounds costly!

Anyways, I'll work on the HISS more tonight...hopefully I get it fixed.

The gauge is probably BSP (british standard pipe) threaded. If so, it is not compatible with NPT gauges commonly found in the US.

These persistent leaks are crazy. Can you tell where the air is escaping? Do you hear it in the barrel or at the end of the Newton voumizer?

[jdp72]

The gauge is probably BSP (british standard pipe) threaded. If so, it is not compatible with NPT gauges commonly found in the US.

These persistent leaks are crazy. Can you tell where the air is escaping? Do you hear it in the barrel or at the end of the Newton voumizer?



I believe it's at the valve cupseal, which gets much louder when I open the breech area. If I put the stock stuff back in...no leaks.

[RangerJoe]

make sure the face of the cupseal is okay. same thing happned to me and i luckily had a spare from evolve(made them give me one,other one messed up) and the leak went away..

[jdp72]

make sure the face of the cupseal is okay. same thing happned to me and i luckily had a spare from evolve(made them give me one,other one messed up) and the leak went away..

As I mentioned before the cup seal area is definitely not as smooth as the stock valve pin cup seal. I bought these new so they should definitely be covered under warranty. How did you go about getting your replacement?

[RangerJoe]

well I kinda had to haggle(sp?) with the guy to get me a new one. Im pretty sure you cant replace the cup seal cuz its like glued molded on the rod. So email evolve saying the cupseal is messed up and explain the other probs(might have to convince him to send it to you)
Note- Srry i ddint read before I was in a rush to go somewhere and posted quick lol

[thatguy!]

Screw the valve adjustment screw all the way in and let it sit for a few minutes. Try it again.

[goodtunes1978]

hey just curious did you take the valve out when you had it torched too get the plug outta the back if not there may be a bad seal from heat

also when i first installed mine i got a small hiss as well i used soapy water and found that it was the samll seal in the volumizer and replaced it i havnt had any issues since

best of luck and also anyone out there that has accidentally gotten a long hammer when they wanted a short hammer i will be happy too trade i have bought 4 kits and wanted all long and instead got 2 short and 2 long but am in need of 2 more longs they have never been used

thx a ton john az

[ikya97]

Just wanted to post my results with evolve lite kit + JDS LPR:

Settings:
HPR ~ 230 PSI
LPR @ 45 PSI
Dwell @ 7
TR @ 1
Hopper @ 4 Lites
Stock Board w/Software ver 2 ---- lookiing to replace
Evolve Lite Bolt (doesn't change anything but it was cheap! $10)
LP Crossfire @ 450 - 500 PSI (have gauge on my XSV ASA)
Vleocity Hooper setting at 5
CP 2 piece barrel with .685 back
RPS Premium
WPN Weapons grade

Results:
Field limits FPS to 275. I was shooting 267-280 range overall between the 2 different paints. When I used the WPN my chrono would vary by +/- 7. The RPS would be +/-6. I shot about 2000 of WPN and 1400 of RPS. I would randomly pick times to chrono the mark as well. Overall, I'm finally happy with my 05 Speed for the first time in over 1 year. I prefer this over my shocker (evolve bolt, virture board, evolve PI reg, smart parts freak barrel kit) .