Lucky Air Assist valve for G7's

[stratplaya06]

Just came across this today, and I couldn't find anything else on the site about it.

http://www.buyluckypaintball.com/servlet/Detail?no=204

Seems pretty cool, but I really want to know how it compares to the MT valve that is currently in my dark.

[BoB]

Very new item. Our first batch should be here by weeks end. We will keep you updated.

[warpedx]

Do you plan on testing them? Just curious how the durability of the hammer will be. I'm interested in this valve.

[BoB]

Yes

[Trigga Nometry]

Wow! That looks pretty cool!

Is that the new Evolve kit for the G7 that was first talked about months ago? I know that Lucky is a distributor for Evolve.

[Heebs]

From what I have read about Lucky Products for other markers... dont expect much. Hopefully his QC is better.

[Trigga Nometry]

Now that I read it again, I am kind skeptical because I see no claim for any improvements over the stock parts other than the rather ambiguous description of:

Only the Air Assist valve is the proper execution of balanced valve poppets that give real performance results.

[peegee]

I have had this valve in my g7 fly for a couple of months now and i must say its some of our best work yet...

has all the benifits the Newton had but without the tuning and the volumiser on the outside this thing truly is just "plug and play"

we have had this thing shooting paint at serious rates of fire with no problems.

i will try and get some vids done asap..

when i came back to Evolve (now lucky) i scrapped the G7 newton in favour of moving to this platform.

peegee

[Trigga Nometry]

peegee - What are the specific benefits? I know that with the MT High Flo valve I was able to slightly reduce my minireg pressure without having to increase my dwell and yet get the same velocity as I did when I had the stock G7 valve in my G7 Fly.

What can we expect to see with this new valve kit? I see that the dwell, LPR, and minireg pressure are no different than my current settings on my G7 Fly. What does this have to offer us?

[peegee]

Mini reg pressure goes up to sweet spot of 280. lpr runs at 50- 60 and dwell is dependent on gun setup and board. i run a lucky board and spitfire chip with a true dwell of 7.

the hammer reduces all kick and the way the valve snaps shut gives uber consistant shot to shot.

It really does mke the g7 fly a beast....

peegee

[Trigga Nometry]

Mini reg pressure goes up to sweet spot of 280. lpr runs at 50- 60 and dwell is dependent on gun setup and board. i run a lucky board and spitfire chip with a true dwell of 7.

the hammer reduces all kick and the way the valve snaps shut gives uber consistant shot to shot.

It really does mke the g7 fly a beast....

peegeeThanks for the reply peegee, it is much appreciated.

[RevBubba]

IS this adaptable for the A4 Fly?

Darn I finally got my Newton working well and now a new valve.

[Trigga Nometry]

It states on the site that it is only for G7 Valved Angels.

[peegee]

Yup G7 Only..

peegee

[warpedx]

I think I shall have to get one of these. I like the concept of the valve.

[Shades]

From what I have read about Lucky Products for other markers... dont expect much. Hopefully his QC is better.

This is a slightly negative post isn’t it; have you or do you personally use any Lucky product?

Lucky products are a big step in the right direction, great quality at a very low price. There products work and work well.

[Devs]

Two of my teammates had the Lucky AAV in their egos. One worked flawlessly and made a huge improvement on the gun. The second one didn't fit properly and wasn't usable. Got a replacement AAV and has worked well since. I wouldn't say that the QC on the Ego AAV is as bad as everyone says, but could use some improvement.

[silverbeast5000]

looks cool i'm real interested to see some results from testing and whatnot.

[lrdbsalt]

boy we need moogle to give us a review. haha

[warpedx]

Bob, you get these in yet? Waiting for the official opinion here.

[BoB]

Not here yet but as soon as they arrive, they are going into 3 guns for testing.

[boostmonkey]

This valve is very interesting. It appears Lucky is using an opposing piston to counteract the force of the pressure behind the valve holding it closed. This will make the initial valve opening much easier. Less inertia will be used overcoming the force from the air pressure holding it closed, so I believe their claims about less kick.

The Newton Evolve valve accomplishes the same thing in a different method with the secondary piston in the Evolve volumizer. The difference is that the opposing piston in the Lucky valve is nearly the full diameter of the main valve seat, so the air pressure force holding the valve closed will be almost entirely cancelled, not just reduced.


The other interesting thing I see is that the opposing piston will slow down the valve's speed both opening and closing. For the valve to open air must be drawn through the small orifice drilled in the valve stem into the chamber behind the piston. For the valve to close air must be expelled from the chamber through the orifice in the valve stem. This "extra work" moving the valve stem will be done by the ram when opening the valve and by the valve spring when closing. It may have the effect of mechanically increasing the valve dwell. If that allows you to electronically decrease the solenoid dwell, that would be fun for everybody.

I imagine the diameter of this orifice and friction from the additional o-rings were critical variables in Lucky's design.

Recapitulation: I can't wait to see the results. I think it could be great or it could suck. I have always thought the G7's integrated very short valve spring is, well, ...odd. I know Lucky says it is for the G7, but is the G7's valve bore diameter in the body the same as other angels? It might be possible to retrofit it to other guns.

[warpedx]

I believe the bore size is the same, but the exhaust hole size is different, not sure on the positioning relative to the front and back of the gun.
I'm not a big fan of the tiny valve spring either.

[Speedy_in_Blue]

im 05'ing a 03 Speed right now, and part of my project was to see if a G7 valve could be made to work. I may look into using this as an alternative.

[boostmonkey]

im 05'ing a 03 Speed right now, and part of my project was to see if a G7 valve could be made to work. I may look into using this as an alternative.

G7 Lucky valving an 05'd 03 Speed? I love it! :drink: Who says there are no tinkerers among high end marker owners? :evilgrin:

[Speedy_in_Blue]

I have a extra Valve here from a G7 here I think, not sure, if not ill prolly pick one of these up.

[warpedx]

So.......any word on how these guys are working?

[BoB]

Sorry. Just tried two this weekend, not ready to make a review yet. I want to try with the stock LPR and then I will give a report. Tried to send one to boostmonkey but he ignores me.

[hodge1]

I would not ignore you. :snag:

[boostmonkey]

Sorry. Just tried two this weekend, not ready to make a review yet. I want to try with the stock LPR and then I will give a report. Tried to send one to boostmonkey but he ignores me.

Oh shoot, wait a minute, I certainly didn't mean to ignore you. I am sorry Bob. :sad: Seriously, if you have tried to get a hold of me I didn't get it. I don't know if it was my fault or not. My email address is the.mineman@gmail.com

[RangerJoe]

Bad man boost bad man :pat: :niener:

[warpedx]

Any luck with these guys yet?

[Brad7]

Yes, I am wonderin the same thing. Any one have one yet? Reviews?

Thanks

[MVpaintball]

Im getting one on my new(to me) GAT from Bob. I want to hear some real world info on this. I'll post about it when I get it, but I wont be able to compare/contrast it with the MT valve.
edit- I was able to compare it to the MT valve, check the post below

[MVpaintball]

OK, today I was able to shoot a stock GAT and a GAT with the Lucky AAV in it. Wow the Lucky valve really takes the kick out. I have a AKA LPR on the gun with the Lucky AAV on it and I am able to shoot dwell 8, LPR 50psi and the gun only vibrates. It feels like a shocker. Great product, I have yet to really tinker with the settings, I might be able to drop dwell/LPR even more, or both.
With the stock gun, there really wasnt much kick, but you can feel the hammer moving back and forth during high ROF(PSP ramping w/ stock board). With the gun that had the Lucky valve, the gun barely moves, and it just kinda vibrates in place when ramping. I could definately feel the difference between the two. I felt like the Lucky valve was cycling quicker too, but I didnt know if that had something to do with the aftermarket LPR
With the cheap price g7 are going for, adding $70 into that price will give you a kick-ass gun.
I give it my thumbs up

[Brad7]

With the cheap price g7 are going for, adding $70 into that price will give you a kick-ass gun.
I give it my thumbs up

Don't you mean a "kickless-ass" gun. Haha.

[thatguy!]

So, boost, are you trying to get it to work on your Fly?

[boostmonkey]

Not currently. I thought I was buying an 06 Speed to try it on, but it looks like the seller is trying to rip me off. He has had my money order but I don't have an 06 Speed. I am very angry/worried in fact.

I am NEVER buying anything online via money order again.

[RangerJoe]

you bought an 06 speed form someboday?and he didnt give it to you?

[hodge1]

Boost, I hope you get your gun. That is my worst nightmare and absolutely pissesme off to even think about. Let us know if you get it.

[Brad7]

Well, since you paid with money order it will be easier to locate the person and file a suit, compared to a money transfer via Western Union. I hope you get it though!

[Viper-Mayhem]

Sorry to hear that BoostM. I was wondering how that 06 was working for you.

[thatguy!]

Not currently. I thought I was buying an 06 Speed to try it on, but it looks like the seller is trying to rip me off. He has had my money order but I don't have an 06 Speed. I am very angry/worried in fact.

I am NEVER buying anything online via money order again.

Suck.

Well, if and when you do get it, you will have a new platform to improve upon. :flowers:

[boostmonkey]

I didn't mean to completely hijack this thread, but thanks for the concern everybody. I'll let you guys know how it works out. Right now it looks like the only way I can get my money back is going to be to sue this guy. He hasn't shipped the gun and he has not been returning my phone calls or emails.

[Mavrick]

A good way to light a fire under his ass is to contact his local police dept. and file a complaint. If you sent the MO via USPS then contact them as well. Get the documentation that you need to support your claims and then produce that as you file complaints. They will be intouch with him and advise him of his rights. I should say riot act. Interstate mail fraud and internet fraud are both pretty nasty smacks for grand larceny.
I'm sure he will see it your way quickly when the heat is on.... as my sig says!

[MVpaintball]

Today I shot both guns with paint in PSP modes, there is definately more kick with paint as we all know. The stock gun climbed as usual, but what suprised me was that the gun with the AAV climbed a bit as well, I guess its just how the gun works. The stock gun had more kick for sure, but the up'd gun was literally like a shocker without paint, but then it has barrel rise with paint, not much and I could easily keep it on target, but it was there. I had slightly better groupings with the AAV too

By the way, I wouldnt have been able to set my LPR without one of Boostmonkeys LPR Gauges. It was cool seeing it recharge so quickly on the gauge. I hope everything works out

[NitroBall]

what settings did you have for both guns ?

LPR
Dwell
Mini reg psi
Shooting @ FPS

[MVpaintball]

OK, I didnt have a chrono available since I was just shooting in my backyard, but I know that if Im standing in a certain spot, then hitting certain trees roughly equates to FPS. Like you know the difference in shot arc & range between 270 and 300, thats what I mean. If I shoot on a flat trajectory, I can guesstimate FPS based on how far the ball goes, based on times when I had a chrono around.
I also dont have a inline gauge, so no way to check that
the up'd gun was shooting:
around 295-300 FPS
50 LPR
8 Dwell

the stock gun was shooting:
around 270-280 FPS
55 LPR (and looked like a lil shootdown)
Dwell 9

Edit- Today I reduced the LPR psi down, from 50 to 45, and it worked awesome. I didnt change anything else, just reduced the pressure.

[boostmonkey]

Good news everybody: MY SPEED ARRIVED TODAY! :) Thank heavens. I was so worried about it. I was already talking with a lawfirm about what I could do. I don't understand why the seller has been ignoring my emails, phone calls, & PMs for the last 2 weeks. But he did ship it. I left a couple of threatening voicemails last week, maybe that did the trick. Everything seems to be in good working condition.

I was only able to run 2 hoppers through the speed today before I ran out of air but it seems to work well. It doesn't shoot nearly as smooth as my A4 Fly currently. So with MVpaintball's good reviews of the Lucky AAV, I am going to go that route with my Speed. I'll post more after I have something to review.

[Viper-Mayhem]

Today I shot both guns with paint in PSP modes, there is definately more kick with paint as we all know. The stock gun climbed as usual, but what suprised me was that the gun with the AAV climbed a bit as well, I guess its just how the gun works. The stock gun had more kick for sure, but the up'd gun was literally like a shocker without paint, but then it has barrel rise with paint, not much and I could easily keep it on target, but it was there. I had slightly better groupings with the AAV too

By the way, I wouldnt have been able to set my LPR without one of Boostmonkeys LPR Gauges. It was cool seeing it recharge so quickly on the gauge. I hope everything works out

I know that some barrels have better porting than others which would account for how much air is being blown off by the time the paint reaches the end/tip. What I'm getting at is when you dry fire the marker with the AVV and there is a reduction of movement(kick) but somewhat returns when you fire paint, wouldn't you conclude that the barrel could have something to cause this?

[Brad7]

Is the efficiency the same compared with the MT valve? Or is one better?

Thanks!

[MVpaintball]

boost- Glad to hear it worked out

viper-both guns had stock GAT barrels(16" DYE UL, .692 I think)

Matt7- Didnt check air usage

Edit- Today I reduced the LPR psi down, from 50 to 45, and it worked awesome. I didnt change anything else, just reduced the pressure and no sign of drop off.

Editing the Edit- I developed a leak with those settings and went back to LPR50, dwell9, with a slightly lower inline

[for2nato]

was your leak from the minireg?

[MVpaintball]

yes and no. I developed a leak from the cupseal oring, but it just needed to be regreased with some hatersauce.
Then when I was taking the gun apart trying to fix that, I scuffed one of the orings on the LPR, causing a leak from the little hole above the minireg. I realized that it had to be one of the two middle orings(on the AKA LPR I have there are 4 outside orings, dont know how the stock is), so I was able to replace the middle 2 orings with 2 old green bolt orings I had from my Dragun The One. The oring AKA had on there wasnt as thick, the oring I put on was almost an exact match for a tank oring, just not urethane. It made for a much tighter fit going in, I feel its actually better than the stock oring.

And when I had the leak, I asked BOB for a little help, he said to put my settings back to dwell9 and LPR50 So even though dwell8, LPR45 worked, Im going to stick with what a MT says, plus I have the inline lower this way

Gotta love getting rained out at work, now I get to spend all day thinking about PB on sunday

[NitroBall]

Then when I was taking the gun apart trying to fix that, I scuffed one of the orings on the LPR, causing a leak from the little hole above the minireg. I realized that it had to be one of the two middle orings(on the AKA LPR I have there are 4 outside orings, dont know how the stock is), so I was able to replace the middle 2 orings with 2 old green bolt orings I had from my Dragun The One. The oring AKA had on there wasnt as thick, the oring I put on was almost an exact match for a tank oring, just not urethane. It made for a much tighter fit going in, I feel its actually better than the stock oring.

Installed my JDS LPR lastnight, i also had a leak which looks like it was comming through the hole where the original locking pin was.
Seems the original o'rings that came with the LPR are not a tight enough fit, though i used plenty of grease, even the standard o'rings from the stock LPR are not tight enough, ,so im going to use some tank o'rings.
Anyone recomend some better o'rings the same size, but a little thicker ?
Using the tank o rings takes some going to push them in.

[hodge1]

Can't recommend better o-ring yet, but I will say that I hooked Boostmonkey's LPR guage up and found out that my AKA lpr also leaks. I changed the orings and it still leaked. If you all figure out where the leak is, please let me know.

[Trigga Nometry]

Are you guys getting the leaks near the top of the minireg housing after you remove and install the LPRs?

[NitroBall]

Are you guys getting the leaks near the top of the minireg housing after you remove and install the LPRs?


yes Trigg, thats where its comming out of, at pressure of what the bottle is giving out.
I cant be a 100% sure it is the O'rings, still trying to find some more bottle orings to put on the LPR.
But i do know, it comes out between the top of mini reg housing an the body.

[NitroBall]

update...

first time i installed the JDS the 3rd o ring(counting from front of marker) blew, and pushing all the grease off the top of the mini reg housing through the gap between the mini reg housing and the body.
Have now replaced all the o rings on the JDS with bottle o rings, and put plenty of grease on the funny shaped o ring thats on top of the mini reg.

Gassed and pressured up, a small amount of grease appeared through the top of mini reg, but nothing major, and no leaks. Degassed and regassed up again, looks like a small amount of grease wanted to come out , but nothing major again, no leaks.

Seems to be holding.

[Trigga Nometry]

yes Trigg, thats where its comming out of, at pressure of what the bottle is giving out.
I cant be a 100% sure it is the O'rings, still trying to find some more bottle orings to put on the LPR.
But i do know, it comes out between the top of mini reg housing an the body.This is going to sound weird but what I found was that the o-ring (no really o-shaped lol) that is between the minireg housing and the body tends to shift. When I superglued that o-ring to the minireg housing, right in place, the leak went away. If it shifts at all, you'll get leaking.

[NitroBall]

This is going to sound weird but what I found was that the o-ring (no really o-shaped lol) that is between the minireg housing and the body tends to shift.

I do believe thats what happened on my marker.
When the oring blew on the JDS LPR ,the first time i installed it. All i did was replace that oring.
The funny shaped oring that sits on the top of the nini reg must have shifted by the force of the oring leak from the JDS.
After replacing all the orings on the JDS, i also took apart the mini reg housing, and relubed.
After that all was fine.

when screwing the mini reg housing back on , without the locking pin in place, you can easily move the mini reg housing about when screwing it back on. The funny shaped oring can be shifted out of place without knowing.
Just needs a little more care .

[hodge1]

How is this hammer holding up? Any chipping or damage to the face? Has it ever come unscrewed?

[11 Bravo]

How is this hammer holding up? Any chipping or damage to the face? Has it ever come unscrewed?


I just got mine today. So I cant say for sure how it will hold up, but it seems to be made of a good hard plastic. The valve pin is also made of the same material. So I dont see why the hammer would have any wear problems.

[11 Bravo]

Wow! This valve works as advertised. NOOOO kick. Just a little vibration.
This was well worth the money. I wish I had come across this earlier.

[boostmonkey]

My initial experiences with the Lucky Air Assist Valve on my 06 Speed are not that great, but I still think it has potential if it’s setup right. I installed the plastic hammer and valve and initially setup the LPR at 40 psi, dwell 10ms, minireg at 250 psi, and a large volumizer. I had to turn up the minireg to reach 280 fps with reball in a .693 barrel. I didn’t recheck the minireg pressure though. The kick was reduced, but not as much as I had hoped. Comparing it to Technix2002’s Evolved A4 Fly the Fly shot much smoother.

We left the Lucky hammer installed and swapped the stock (mastertech) valve back in. The velocity dropped to 220 fps. I adjusted the minireg to almost maximum (~300 psi) and the LPR to 48 psi and got the velocity back up around 275.

Not being happy with the results I stopped for the night. The Lucky hammer is a scant 4 grams to the stock 25 grams. With that low of mass and this supposedly easy opening “pressure balanced” valve I would expect to be able to reduce the kick to almost nothing. I think the problem is the valve spring.

The valve spring that was included with the kit is a monster. It is actually hard to push/turn the volumizer (or endcap) back on. The wire size is probably about 0.050” or bigger and it is 1/2” longer than it needs to be. Interestingly, it is also too big around. The spring is about 7/16” O.D. and is loose around the valve and spring support. A 3/8” O.D. spring fits perfectly. I bought an assortment of 3/8” OD compression springs of lengths from 1.25” to 2.125” and wire sizes from 0.025” to 0.045” Installed at the stock depth, (Hodge1’s new volumizer adapter is adjustable) a spring about 1.75” long of 0.031” wire feels about right. Enough force to close the valve, but not much more. I have to borrow a chrono again to do some more testing (I REALLY wish I had a chrono), but once I do I’ll let everyone know what I find out. Hopefully I’ll be able to turn that LPR down a tad and the HPR down a lot.

[hodge1]

Thanks for the update. Keep them coming.

[Viper-Mayhem]

Boost, I look forward to the reports for your experiments as I would waiting to see the outcome of the next NPPL Division Championships. I beleive that your type of explantions make it possible for light tinkerer's to have confidence in doing the same modifications. Please keep them coming. Thanks, V-M.
PS. I hope to try yours out at the next Ohio-AOG Team Event

[11 Bravo]

Huh, sorry to see that you had bad results Boostmonkey.
I initially set mine up like Peegee described. It worked perfectly and eliminated most of the kick. Also had no problem with chrono. I have since tried it with a volumizer. I tried it with the adapter and it made an additional difference. I then removed the adapter and now have just that green piece resting against the volumizer and holding the spring in place. This has lowered the spring tension and allowed me to lower the hpr (CP) down to around 215 to 220 psi. I have not touched the lpr it is still set at 58 psi. With this final set up I have been able to lower the dwell to 7.
To summarize I have this set up:

Volumizer without lucky adapter (black disk)
Hpr 215
lpr 58
Dwell 7

= no kick :)

[BoB]

I would try again without reball.

[NitroBall]

would you not have to up the LPR to compensate for the difference in weight of the new lucky hammer ?

Just like a little kid pushing open a door , compared to an adult pushing open the same door. The little kid would have to move faster towards the door in order to have the same effect as the adult opening the door.

I sure i read somewhere that lucky recomended the LPR between 60/65 psi ?

Will be visiting lucky/evolve next week down @ nuneaton uk. Will ask them what settings they have been sucessful with.

[warpedx]

The little kid would have to move faster towards the door

I just had a visual of a little kid running face first into a closed door. LOL
If I remember right, Lucky wanted the lpr at 60 or 65 psi. The valve spring does seem a bit strong, hopefully you will have good luck with your spring kit.

[Technix2002]

Hey NitroBall, yes very good point indeed.... However that is the reason behind Boostmonkey using a lighter spring in the valve area: less force to open the valve = lower operating ram pressures to move less mass (delrin hammer), and as a side effect of this: less force hitting the ball in the chamber (theoretically).

[DarkCataclysm]

too bad they don't just sell the hammer, someone should try using the hammer paired with MT Valve kit and post the results.. should be able to run lower lpr then lucky kit and should produce less kick then stock or lucky kit

[boostmonkey]

I already did. See post above.

[boostmonkey]

<grumble> I put the lucky AAV kit back in today and spent at least a couple hours trying to get it to stop leaking. It seems to be leaking past the small o-ring on the end of the valve stem and I cannot get it to stop. I will probably have to call Lucky on Monday. </grumble>

[JDemonpbt]

Let me know how this really does work out for you BoostMonkey. If you can get your new 06 speed shooting as smooth as your Fly did with this, I might really have to look into this for my Dark G7. Like you said it Did have alot more kick in it then your Fly, Somethings just not right about that.

[11 Bravo]

I decided I didnt like this valve after all. It blew extra air out from under the breach and had a cheap ping sound (spring). I removed it and put my MT valve back in. I am still using the plastic hammer though. Imo this combination is better. No kick or vibration and seems to be operate smoother.

[boostmonkey]

Good news! My Lucky AAV is fixed! John at Lucky Paintball sent me a replacement valve body and stem to fix the leaks I was having. I have waited to post anything until I had a chance to actually play with it.

Summary:
My Angel was shooting incredibly last weekend with the Lucky AAV installed. There were no leaks, way less recoil than stock, good consistency and ZERO ball breaks. Did I mention that it was 25 degrees outside?! :yikes: I love this gun!

Summary of my current setup:

06 Speed with Lucky Air Assist Valve kit (includes polymer hammer)
Lucky valve spring replaced with much softer 0.031" wire, 2.00" long, 3/8" O.D. spring
Fly volumizer with hodge1 volumizer adapter
STD Industries JDS LPR (with bulletnose cap!)
Stock barrel for now


Current Settings:

Halo V35 on setting "4"
Hopper speed set at "medium" (2 LEDs)
Dwell: 9ms
LPR: 55psi
Microreg (http://angelowners.com/showthread.php?t=60923&highlight=microreg): 220 psi
A1 "KISS Technology" bolt mod (http://angelowners.com/showthread.php?t=63000)
280 fps


-boost

[boostmonkey]

I'm glad I double checked the microreg pressure last night, It is actually 220 psi, not 250 psi as I originally thought. Post above edited to suit.

[Tally-Ho]

The G7 AAVs are available at www.luckyeurope.co.uk
The Angel Boards are being sold soon by Spitfire Paintball the guys who wrote and own the code for the Lucky boards. www.spitfirepaintball.com