New Angelforce G7/fly Valve

[KEN CRANE]

ANGELFORCE.TV THE NEW FORCE IN PAINTBALL

http://www.angel-owners.com/force/force.jpg

Attention, Attention…..WDP/ANGELFORCE.TV is now releasing the NEW Force Flow Valve which was created with the help of the WDP Master Techs. This is a brand new high performance exhaust valve and stem for your G7 or G7 Fly. Through extensive testing we have come up with an extremely efficient combination of valve and guide. The NEW reverse style seal face and exhaust body actually change the “air flow” pattern for a much more efficient use of air. This valve is made to be extremely light as well, using aluminum instead of stainless steel which in turn reduces the weight by one third. The design of the face seal in combination with the reverse seal surface causes a low pressure on one side and a higher pressure on the other. This utilizes physics to speed the air into the bolt area much more quickly. The aluminum valve is fitted with a stainless steel insert for the stem to ride in to assure extra long valve guide life. Extensive tests have shown a 20FPS jump in velocity without changing any input pressures! This equals more shots for the same amount of air you are currently using.

This valve combo retails for $65.00 and they are super hot right now so order yours soon from any of the following Master Tech Warranty Centers while intial supplies last!




WWW.PERFORMANCEANGEL.COM http://www.performanceangel.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=349&cat=82&page=1
WWW.IMPACTPAINTBALL.COM
WWW.FIXMYANGEL.COM http://secure.fixmyangel.com/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&products_id=558&osCsid=0e60f818e0dcec230e28efce7a45017e
WWW.ANGELPARTS.COM
WWW.ANGELSERVICECENTER.COM
AND FOR CANADA
WWW.BADLANDSPAINTBALL.COM http://www.badlandspaintball.com/gunaccess/angel.html

[akpaintballer13]

You said for the g7 and g7 fly.
Will they be available for the a4 fly's and the 05 speeds soon.
Or are they available now for the a4 fly.
Matthew

[lefty21]

In lay terms, is this just an up for better air efficency or does it have other benefits?

[KEN CRANE]

ANGELFORCE.TV THE NEW FORCE IN PAINTBALL

http://www.angel-owners.com/force/force.jpg

Attention, Attention…..WDP/ANGELFORCE.TV is now releasing the NEW Force Flow Valve which was created with the help of the WDP Master Techs. This is a brand new high performance exhaust valve and stem for your G7 or G7 Fly. Through extensive testing we have come up with an extremely efficient combination of valve and guide. The NEW reverse style seal face and exhaust body actually change the “air flow” pattern for a much more efficient use of air. This valve is made to be extremely light as well, using aluminum instead of stainless steel which in turn reduces the weight by one third. The design of the face seal in combination with the reverse seal surface causes a low pressure on one side and a higher pressure on the other. This utilizes physics to speed the air into the bolt area much more quickly. The aluminum valve is fitted with a stainless steel insert for the stem to ride in to assure extra long valve guide life. Extensive tests have shown a 20FPS jump in velocity without changing any input pressures! This equals more shots for the same amount of air you are currently using.

This valve combo retails for $65.00 and they are super hot right now so order yours soon from any of the following Master Tech Warranty Centers while intial supplies last!




http://www.performanceangel.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=349&cat=82&page=1
WWW.IMPACTPAINTBALL.COM
WWW.FIXMYANGEL.COM
WWW.ANGELPARTS.COM
WWW.ANGELSERVICECENTER.COM
AND FOR CANADA
WWW.BADLANDSPAINTBALL.COM

IF I MAY NOW TELL, SOME TOP SECRET TESTER HERE AT AOG HAS BEEN TESTING HIS FOR ABOUT 2 MONTHS NOW WITH ZERO ISSUES. HMM STARTS WITH TRIG AND ENDS WITH NOMITRY....HES SUCH A LUCKY GUY AND HE LIVES SOOO CLOSE.ALSO THESE VALVES ARE IN ALL OUR PRO TEAMS AND MOST OF OUR NPPL TEAMS NOW FOR ABOUT A MONTH WITH GREAT RESULTS.REMEMBER THE SAYING "RACE ON SUNDAY SELL ON MONDAY" WE USE THE MOST DEMANDING FORMS OF TESTING TO PROOVE THIS STUFF.

[akpaintballer13]

Will it be available for the A4 Fly Ken.
HMMMMMMM
oh yea p.s Thanks for the solenoid

[Jetwing@Impactpaintball]

pics would be nice

[KEN CRANE]

In lay terms, is this just an up for better air efficency or does it have other benefits?


it is way lighter,it will have a replaceable seal face if it were to be damaged,it moves faster and smoother becuse of the ss insert and i will go on the line in my personal testing that it WILL allow a lower dwell time due to the better flow in a shorter period of time.i will post some good pictures an a few. you will see the recessed seal surface rather than the raised style most commonly used in all of our valves as well most other manufactures.the air is allowed to actualy flow in a smoother transition from the valve chamber into the body of the valve.as most of you know we are pretty anal about putting our name on something and this is a work of art. its really cool to have the relationship with wdp as we do so this kind of stuff is brought to you. no gimmick here meat and potatoes for sure!

[KEN CRANE]

Will it be available for the A4 Fly Ken.
HMMMMMMM
oh yea p.s Thanks for the solenoid


nope sorry g7/g7fly

[akpaintballer13]

Nooooooooooooooooo

[1 Evil Package]

so this means my dark g7 with find a new upgrade now :cool:

[firemedic30]

Sounds sweet!

[Trigga Nometry]

Sounds sweet!Oh and it is SWEET! I am the lucky bastard that got to break the hell out of it time and time again to see how well it would hold up.

At first, when Ken told me what the new valve was supposed to do I thought...WHAT?!?!?! I thought the Angel Force guys had lost it because at first glance, the design does not appear to be all that different than the stock valve and valve stem assembly until you take a closer look at it.

But I can attest that it is way lighter than the stock valve and YES the flow through the valve in increased over the stock because you instantly see an increase in velocity. I have had it for about two months now. You can even see when you move the stem yourself that it moves with so much less resistance (it open and closes the valve easier) than the stock valve. That SS insert in the valve, works wonders.

I did what Ken suggested. Set up my G7 Fly with the stock valve and took a bunch of readings at about 280 fps velocity. I then swapped out the stock valve with the new Angel Force Flow valve. I changed nothing and to my utter shock, the velocity went up about 15-20fps without changing anything but the valve. I did not change the minireg pressure, dwell, or anything.

The design and flow characteristics are really ingenious. The flow is increased even though the openings (gas galleries) and the same size.

So, YES, this baby works.

[JeffW]

I just ordered one from FMA.

[Kermit Da Frog]

I got one of these valve & seal combo from WDP a couple weeks back. My guess is that is was by mistake now that I read this. I put it in a customers brand new marker that had a ding in the valve face. So far, he is very pleased with its performance. It looks like the MT's have provided another great product for us Angel people. I look forward to getting one once my stock one needs a replacement.

Thanks MT's

[smasher41]

question,

is the valve stem asembly changed, other than the lip that seals against the valve.
if so what was changed? and is it able to be disassembled ( to change spring tension)
is the seal itself replaceable or does it require the entrire assembly to be replaced? if it was needed what would be replacement cost.

looking at my g7 fly it almost seems as if the hammer does make contact with the valve body (markings on hammer face), if this was the case, wouldnt the alumnium valve body mushroom in the body?

thanks.

[golobulus]

how is the installation process?

[Kermit Da Frog]

SMASHER:

Look at the photos above your questions about the valve will be answered. The whole valve body is swapped out with a lighter one with the new design that allows the plastic part to seat on the concaved face of the valve body instead of a small lip that normal protrudes outward from the face. I can't answer the other parts of your question as the part is not in my marker so I cant look at it to see what is going on as this part gets use. My guess is this part will stand up to the rigors of use or the MT's wouldn't sell it in this form. One of the MT's will prob come on and answer the rest of your questions and make fun of what I have said.... Just kidding, they seem like a great group of guys...

Happy Trails

Golobulus:
As for as installing the part in your marker, its cake if you can follow directions in your angel manual and are not afraid to take apart your marker. The install is upfront, no hidden tricks, just be careful and take your time. All will be well.

Latet

[JTNORCAL]

will it fit the gat?

[Trigga Nometry]

will it fit the gat?YES it will work on The Gat because The Gat uses the same valve and valve stem as the G7.

[KEN CRANE]

question,

is the valve stem asembly changed, other than the lip that seals against the valve.
if so what was changed? and is it able to be disassembled ( to change spring tension)
is the seal itself replaceable or does it require the entrire assembly to be replaced? if it was needed what would be replacement cost.

looking at my g7 fly it almost seems as if the hammer does make contact with the valve body (markings on hammer face), if this was the case, wouldnt the alumnium valve body mushroom in the body?

thanks.

the valve will not mushroom as the stem is still steel. the assembley is not repairable with the exception of the seal face.the hammer doesnt come any where near the actual valve body except where it contacts the end of the stem. we have been testing these for months now and there have been no issues. when we say months i need to clarify their are probably 100 in the field right now most are in guns that no one even knows we have installed them.

[SANO 212]

Ken just keeps finding ways to make me spend my money...my fiancee is going to kill me! I guess I need to go run out and get a G7 since this won't fit in my A4 Fly = (

Ken - will this valve be on the newer G7 that are leaving the factory today or will this just be an aftermarket product?

[1 Evil Package]

I believe its an aftermarket part since MT's made it not WDP, but maybe the MT's will be selling them in the g7/Flys they sell on their site. :notsure:

[KEN CRANE]

Ken just keeps finding ways to make me spend my money...my fiancee is going to kill me! I guess I need to go run out and get a G7 since this won't fit in my A4 Fly = (

Ken - will this valve be on the newer G7 that are leaving the factory today or will this just be an aftermarket product?

THEY WILL GO INTO WHAT WE CALL "ROLLING" CHANGE. ANYTHING G7 FLY/SPEED 06/GAT AFTER NOV 1 PRODUCTION SHOULD HAVE THIS IN IT ALREADY.NO WAY OF TELLING IF IT HAS IT OTHER THAN THAT.

[smasher41]

the valve will not mushroom as the stem is still steel. the assembley is not repairable with the exception of the seal face.the hammer doesnt come any where near the actual valve body except where it contacts the end of the stem. we have been testing these for months now and there have been no issues. when we say months i need to clarify their are probably 100 in the field right now most are in guns that no one even knows we have installed them.

after looking at my g7 i realise there is a lip of the body between the hammer and the valve, so only the face part with the ss insert could be contacted.


thanks for the anwser.

[ishmaleraper]

THEY WILL GO INTO WHAT WE CALL "ROLLING" CHANGE. ANYTHING G7 FLY/SPEED 06/GAT AFTER NOV 1 PRODUCTION SHOULD HAVE THIS IN IT ALREADY.NO WAY OF TELLING IF IT HAS IT OTHER THAN THAT.


does the same apply for the gat?:notsure:

[three fut nuthin]

yo ken,
are the MT's gonna release a valve for pre-g7 markers?

A4, Speed, Fly, 05 Speed?

[KEN CRANE]

does the same apply for the gat?:notsure:
ANYTHING G7 FLY/SPEED 06/GAT AFTER NOV 1

[ishmaleraper]

awsome thnx

[Presto333]

so was this the reason the review of Jim's valve was asked to be removed from 68 caliber?

[KEN CRANE]

so was this the reason the review of Jim's valve was asked to be removed from 68 caliber?

NOPE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. THATS THE NEXT UPGRADE.

[KEN CRANE]

going fast

[KEN CRANE]

up up up

[connor07]

Got to see the new valve and stem, they are nice! Now if I only had a G7 :scratchhe

[DarkCataclysm]

Ken

You mensioned that we could lower the dwell some.
In the pro guns you have been prototyping this valve in, what setting have seemed to work best?

Please list the Dwell and LPR and input pressure that you found to be the best with the MT valve, I know every gun is a tad different and some are more tempermental than others but I was curious enough to ask since my valve just arrived today.

[Trigga Nometry]

Ken

You mensioned that we could lower the dwell some.
In the pro guns you have been prototyping this valve in, what setting have seemed to work best?

Please list the Dwell and LPR and input pressure that you found to be the best with the MT valve, I know every gun is a tad different and some are more tempermental than others but I was curious enough to ask since my valve just arrived today.I am certainly not Ken but I can tell you what my settings have been using the new Angel Force Flow Valve.

Angel G7 Fly
LPR of 45psi
Dwell of 8
minireg set to about 200psi or so shooting Reballs

I have a really bad paint to barrel match because the Reballs are measuring about 0.66" caliber.

When I shot these settings using real paint, they worked too but I had to lower the minireg pressure a little to shoot at 285fps. I also have zero shootdown even in the Tadao's full auto and response mode.

Needless to say, the flow is amazing.

[lefty21]

Sound like some magical settings...lol. Can't wait till mine comes in.

[DarkCataclysm]

45 psi with a dwell of 8 is impressive, you wouldn't think a little change to the valve would do so much!

How much longer till the MT G7 hammer comes out and what is it going to be made of?
The suspense is KILLING me. G7s are going to shoot so slick after the MTs put out the hammer.

I know Evolve is making a G7 kit but I am not sure on the details of what it is going to be comprised of.

[tigersfury]

Hey Ken,

I'm ordered my 06 speed from my local shop yesterday. They said it should be in transit from the WDP warehouse this week. Is there any way to tell if my speed has this upgrade already by serial number or not?

[BoB]

The easiest way would be to pull the exhaust valve out when it arrives and then you will know.

[XLPaintball]

I installed mine today and I was very disappointed. It made no difference what so ever over the chrono. :(

[ishmaleraper]

on my gat (i just got it) im runnin the dwell at 7 and the lpr at i believe 65 (whatever the stock settings are) i havent had a chance to adjust the lpr yet cuz im waitin til i break it in, i assume 2-3 cases is enough, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG, i dont wanna mess with it if its not broken in yet! but as far as i can tell these settings are doin ok, considering im only gettin barrel breaks and im shooting 2 month old paint... the barrel breaks suck tho...

[KEN CRANE]

I installed mine today and I was very disappointed. It made no difference what so ever over the chrono. :(


but we spoke today and suggested some new settings to try so we will here from him this weekend. dwell 8-9 lpr 50

[XLPaintball]

but we spoke today and suggested some new settings to try so we will here from him this weekend. dwell 8-9 lpr 50

without doing anything to the lpr, I lowered the dwell to 8 and it was very inconsistant over the chrono. it also used 500 psi per pod consistantly. :(

[KEN CRANE]

got some more in ready to go!

[uniquenewyork15]

im debating....

[sauve nickk]

without doing anything to the lpr, I lowered the dwell to 8 and it was very inconsistant over the chrono. it also used 500 psi per pod consistantly. :(
that's bugging me.

[XLPaintball]

that's bugging me.

my gun is on the way to Ken this week to let him have a crack at it. I will post the results. Ken even offered his UPS account number. Now that is service!:cheers:

[warpedx]

I will be ordering one of these. I'm sure any marker problems can be corrected by tuning the gun to the new part(s). Ken will no doubt get your G7 shooting right XL.

[Kermit Da Frog]

Ken, will you let all of us know the out come of XLPaintball's marker?

[lefty21]

Performance Angel's customer service is, bar none, the best service that I've expereienced in any retail business in MY LIFE! PERIOD PERIOD PERIOD...Ken is professional, down to earth, and gets your gear up a running to the best of its abilities...

Enough about that, I purchased the valve and haven't had the chance to install it, but, like it was mentioned above, I'm sure some tuning will do the trick...Also, Ken, when you do post, perhaps it would be helpful to post the parameters etc....that should be used with the valve.

[KEN CRANE]

Performance Angel's customer service is, bar none, the best service that I've expereienced in any retail business in MY LIFE! PERIOD PERIOD PERIOD...Ken is professional, down to earth, and gets your gear up a running to the best of its abilities...

Enough about that, I purchased the valve and haven't had the chance to install it, but, like it was mentioned above, I'm sure some tuning will do the trick...Also, Ken, when you do post, perhaps it would be helpful to post the parameters etc....that should be used with the valve.

THANKS FOR THE PROPS BUT I WANT TO MAKE SOMETHING PERFECTLY CLEAR HERE. WE KNOW WITH FACTS BACKED BY THE MOST EXTENCIVE TESTING NEXT TO THE BOARDS THAT THIS VALVE WILL HAVE NO NEGITIVE EFFECTS ON YOUR GUN. EVEN IF IT IS SET UP SO POORLY IT WILL NOT HARM A THING. IF YOUR GUN IS PROPERLY TUNED AND WORKING EVEN SLIGHTLY WELL THIS VALVE WILL OUT PERFORM THE STOCK VALVE. BOB GETS REAL PISSED AT ME WHEN I MAKE STATMENTS LIKE THIS AS I LEAVE US OPEN TO OTHERS THAT TRY AND TAKE IT DOWN. BUT I WILL STAND BEHIND WHAT I HAVE SAID IN WORDS AND THE 100 OR SO I PERSONALY HAVE INSTALLED SINCE THE SUMMER. IF THERE WE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT THIS VALVE WOULD NOT BE GOING INTO PRODUCTION.I HAVE ASKED XL TO SEND HIS GUN TO ME USING MY UPS NUMBER AS IT IS THE EASIEST WAY TO GET IT TO ME ASAP. PLEASE THIS ISNT AN OPEN INVITATION FOR FREE SHIPPING SORRY LOL. AS SOON AS I GET HIS GUN I WILL WORK ON IT AND LET YOU KNOW WHAT I HAVE FOUND. ALSO WE ARE BACK IN FULL SWING FROM MY DAYS OFF SO IT WILL TAKE A FEW TO GET CAUGHT BACK UP.

[XLPaintball]

i did not use his UPS account btw. it was a nice gesture though.

[smasher41]

haha, hey Ken if you UPS bill is outrageous, youll know someone sold the account # info.

dont get any ideas Xl, or youll never see your gat again :)

[Kermit Da Frog]

Can the replacement valve stems for the MT valve be ordered from WDP or do I have to get one from a MT site?

[XLPaintball]

I think Ken has some info, although he has not filled me in fully as to what exactly the problem was. Got a Tadao board installed too!

[XLPaintball]

Uhhhh.........Ken?

[firemedic30]

Kermit, the valve is from the MTs.

[KEN CRANE]

Can the replacement valve stems for the MT valve be ordered from WDP or do I have to get one from a MT site?

FROM US AT THE MOMENT

[Kermit Da Frog]

Kermit, the valve is from the MTs.

Firemedic:

The valve is from WDP according to my WDP Sales rep. The MT's are just buying them all. This should be pretty apperent to the world since it comes in the new markers directly from WDP. However that was not my question. My question is on the stem.

Thanks for getting back to me Ken. I asked about the stem for two reasons. The first being I have customers who use this part. I want to be able to get repair parts when they need them. The second is for my marker. I don't care about the slight loss of weight provided by switching to the new valve. However I am going to machine the lip off of the old valve and machine in the same negitive face as the MT valve is sporting. When I do this I will just need a stem.

I am thankful for the time you both of you take to reply to our questions. Firemedic, please don't take and of my response as rude or mean.

[firemedic30]

Not at all Kermit!!

I take correction very well....just ask my wife!! LOL!

[KEN CRANE]

Firemedic:

The valve is from WDP according to my WDP Sales rep. The MT's are just buying them all. This should be pretty apperent to the world since it comes in the new markers directly from WDP. However that was not my question. My question is on the stem.

Thanks for getting back to me Ken. I asked about the stem for two reasons. The first being I have customers who use this part. I want to be able to get repair parts when they need them. The second is for my marker. I don't care about the slight loss of weight provided by switching to the new valve. However I am going to machine the lip off of the old valve and machine in the same negitive face as the MT valve is sporting. When I do this I will just need a stem.

I am thankful for the time you both of you take to reply to our questions. Firemedic, please don't take and of my response as rude or mean.

the theory is fine on using the old ones but the new body has aprox. 20% more flow area as it is not only machined differently on the face but the actual internal milling is different.the stems are available as a seperate part number once the exsiting inventory is depleted of older ones. problem is that the stem is the expencive part of the kit.

[XLPaintball]

the theory is fine on using the old ones but the new body has aprox. 20% more flow area as it is not only machined differently on the face but the actual internal milling is different.the stems are available as a seperate part number once the exsiting inventory is depleted of older ones. problem is that the stem is the expencive part of the kit.

still waiting.......

[Kermit Da Frog]

Thanks for the info Ken.

[KEN CRANE]

still waiting.......


what did i miss here sorry

[XLPaintball]

what did i miss here sorry

can you give us an official verdict as to why my gun did not see any benefits from the MT valve prior to me sending it to you.

[JeffW]

can you give us an official verdict as to why my gun did not see any benefits from the MT valve prior to me sending it to you.

I spoke with Ken tonight and he told me that the guns he has checked so far regarding performance issues with the MT Valve is the reg pressures were out of wack. For example 400psi when it should be around 280psi. This in turn affects you lpr pressure and dwell, and can cause chopping, etc. He'll get mine right and I might even have the AF board installed. Yaaaa!

[XLPaintball]

Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! Ken you have email!!!!!:cry:

[Kermit Da Frog]

Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! Ken you have email!!!!!:cry:


Any verdict on your marker yet XL?

[XLPaintball]

Ken does have a verdict but I am not sure if I am at liberty to say and I dont have the marker yet to find out.

[Carapace]

Sounds like your reg just needed a little TLC, XL... ;)

[XLPaintball]

it has nothing to do with the reg.

[KEN CRANE]

it has nothing to do with the reg.


ok both xl's and jeff williams guns now radar over 310. xls gun gave me a crap load of trouble. but my good buddy bob moonie helped me with the answer. mainly their was crap in the air passage from polishing.i am sorry i cant further this but i am ass deep in the arsenal guns getting them ready for tommorows flight. talk more soon