You've Just Been Jimified (Jim's new valve and hammer)

[three fut nuthin]

You’ve Just Been Jimified! (Review of Jim of Impact Paintball’s new Valve and Hammer prototype)

Setup used for testing:
04 Angel Speed
WDP Longest volumizer
A4 softface bolt
Stock Infinity barrel
Sensi Level 1
Dwell: 10
MROF: All lights
Prototype valve and hammer set to 45 psi
Empire Reloader B
WDP Angel AIR 68/4500 adjustable set to 350 input pressure
Paint: Xball Silver

Price: TBA
Impact Paintball located in New Jersey, owned by Mark Coasta and Jim Florek, has been around since the beginning of Angel Teching. They have been in the game forever. They released the legendary Impact Angel’s, and are known for some of the best Angel Teching in the country. Now, they have been working on a “super valve and hammer” if you will.

So I sent my Speed up to New Jersey for a week to let Jim work “his magic” on the Speed so I could see what he was bragging about so much. First of all, I would like to complement the AMAZING customer service provided by Impact. They contacted me the day my marker arrived, and the day it left with a tracking number, making it very easy to keep tabs on what was going on. While my Speed was with Impact Paintball, Jim installed a new aluminum valve along with an aluminum hammer. He oiled them up, and it was ready to rip.

When I was shooting my Speed over the red chrono stock, I was getting around 850 balls off a fill with my 4500. I also experienced a good bit of kick in the marker. I had my input pressure set to 450 on the AIR reg. 5 Shots over the chrono read velocities of: 278,260,271,280,274. I experienced minor chopping, but the sensi is truly amazing.

Upon receiving my newly “Jimified” Speed, at first glance I could right away see the difference. Opening up the breech I could see a shinny aluminum hammer. Along with the stock valve, the stock brass hammer had been replaced. When compared to the Evolve this setup is half the weight, I know hard to believe right? But true!

After bringing my freshly Jimified Speed to the local field I noticed a huge performance difference. The new settings are LPR: 40-45 and Dwell: 10. I aired up my tank, and put approximately 350 PSI (not this is a full 100 PSI difference) into my beast. After taking 5 shots over the red chrono I got a velocity outcome of: 279, 278, 279, 277, 278. The ref next to me who also has a Speed was slowly picking up his jaw and putting it back into place. We were both awe struck at how great it shot.
I unloaded the rest of that hopper onto a 5-inch disk at approximately 25 yards. The disks are setup like a windmill, but facing the shooter, and I had the wheel spinning like a bike tire! Thanks to the 0 kick promised by Jim, the shots were DEAD ON, ball on ball. I let a friend use it in a game, and the ref and I both saw two balls hit each other in the air, on multiple occasions. Looking inside the breech area, and down the barrel at the end of the day, not ONE ball had broken. Impressive isn’t it? I was thoroughly impressed.
The Main purpose of this hammer and valve setup was to reduce kick down to 0, and provide lower, more consistent operating pressure. It did all of the above; it was what I expected, and then some! Incredible product from even more incredible people.

Below is the ram/hammer assebmly. Valve pictures to come

[a bag of it]

I let a friend use it in a game, and the ref and I both saw two balls hit each other in the air, on multiple occasions.

that is physically impossible with the consistency that you claim to be getting

[Presto333]

that is physically impossible with the consistency that you claim to be getting

ever watch any kind of racing? Notice how one car will drive right behind the other. The front car will take all the drag/wind resistance/other elements, while the car behind it accelerates at an exponential amount over the front car and passes it. Well this is the same physics, just with little round balls of paint and no engine...

[Presto333]

I was bored so here's pictures. I realize the balls aren't going to be this close together, but you can get the basics. Ball1 goes through all the resistance and creates an almost tunnel like area for Ball2 to go through, and as you shoot faster and faster there is less resistance for every ball after that (hence the exponential increase) until eventually you get 2 balls hitting eachother. In a perfect world you would have to shoot 3600bps+ for balls to finally colide (300fps, 12 inches in a foot, u get the point) but in a real world with wind resistance and other variable factors, colliding balls is in fact possible...

[a bag of it]

I was bored so here's pictures. I realize the balls aren't going to be this close together, but you can get the basics. Ball1 goes through all the resistance and creates an almost tunnel like area for Ball2 to go through, and as you shoot faster and faster there is less resistance for every ball after that (hence the exponential increase) until eventually you get 2 balls hitting eachother. In a perfect world you would have to shoot 3600bps+ for balls to finally colide (300fps, 12 inches in a foot, u get the point) but in a real world with wind resistance and other variable factors, colliding balls is in fact possible...

I thought about that, but I wouldn't think that it could effect it enough for a collision

[Presto333]

i don't know for sure if that is the cause of it, just seems to me to be the most reasonable cause, but i know it happens cause i have seen it happen.

[warpedx]

Damn those little red dots of resistance!
Consistancy sounds good, how's the air effieciancy? And any signs of shootdown?

[PakmanRevd]

Damn those little red dots of resistance!


Hahahahahahha

[Hep]

Presto you pic sucks put your opinion is well taken. lol good analogy

[Presto333]

psh, thats pro photoshop skillz right therr

[esandov]

Ninja Preston...your my boy...but I just dont believe it until I see it.
I am awful at math (and spelling) crap I cant read that good either...I'm f'ed.

Anyhow... If you take the velocity of a ball (300fps) and multiply it by inches (12)....dont you get a velocity of 3600 inches per second? If you divide that by ROF say of 40bps wouldn't it give you a ball spacing of theoretically 90 inches betwen balls? (I seriously did not take calc or physics) I mean I dont know the actual equation but wouldnt that be like 7.5 ft between balls? And a pellet of .68 cal at 7.5 ft could create that drag window so that the next ball could drift and catch up?

Can someone with better understanding of this stuff explain how it works, I am interested in knowing.

As for the valve, well there is no doubt that if it is MOTU Jim made, its like made of the same stuff predator weapons are made of (Predator 2), but I dont understand the statement that its half the weight of the Evolve. I cant picture a hammer made of aluminum that weights less than 10g or 6g for that matter. I am not a hater, as a matter of fact everyone that knows me knows that I am a Jimpact Zealot. But some of these statements amount to those guys selling cure-all-elixers. But if you know Jim, hes shady and shiesty all at once, so maybe he got hit hands on experimental defense weapons material. Hes crazy with a dremmel too.

Jim made me a believer when he worked on my gun.....but this I have to see a pic and a vid.

[5enses]

I'm siding with esandov on this one. Without going into heavy mathematical or physical formulas (not that I can), here is my basic explanation. The following points do not individually prove anything, but are all used to fomulate my opinion, so read them all if you're interested.

Point 1.
I think it's safe to state that with better (i.e. +/-1 fps) shot-to-shot consistency, if collisions were to occur, they would occur farther from the barrel rather than closer. With worse (i.e. +/-15 fps) shot-to-shot consistency, collisions would occur closer to the barrel rather than farther away. In other words, if collisions were to occur while your marker was firing at high rates of fire with very consistent shot-to-shot velocities, collisions would occur reasonably farther away, not within 10-30 feet from the barrel. Of course the exception would be if the air you breathe was thick as mud.

Point 2.
If Point 1 is true, then as each ball flies farther from the barrel, the velocity lessens and the laws of gravity show more effect (gravity has the same constant affect throughout the entire trajectory of the ball but is easily seen more towards the end of the paintball's flight path). However, if 2 consecutive paintballs are travelling at different velocities, due to air resistance against the first one, wouldn't the first one drop sooner due to lower velocities? If so, how would the second one collide with the first if the trajectories are different? (Yes, trajectories would be different if the velocities are different).

Point 3.
Velocities measured over typical paintball chronographs do not necessarily reflect consistency during high rates of fire. Firing single shots with long periods of time between (i.e. 1/2 second) over the chronograph give the marker's air passages plenty of time to recharge to reproduce the same previous shot. High rates of fire can starve these passages, causing inconsistencies between shots. What you get over a chrono is not what happens during high rates of fire.

The above points are not a comment on Jim's product, as I have no personal experience with it. This is purely founded on what appears to be a healthy discussion. :fence:

[thefreak]

my 2 cents....

the only other factor that everyone is not thinking about is the paintball.....it is not perfectly round nor is everyone identical to the other. where one might fit the barrel match extremely well the next one in the line might be extremely tight. regardless of the math equations you are trying to figure out there are to many variables in the paintball to actually get the right answer from my view point.
just adding my thoughts.....

[fife]

that is physically impossible with the consistency that you claim to be getting

"A bag of it" is right it is "nearly" impossible, but only based on the velocity data that was written. However, the most important piece of information that is missing, is the velocity of the first and second ball that collided. The velocity that was written was probably recorded as individual test fires. When the balls collided he certainly was shooting in excess of 20+ bps which is difficult to measure accurately. I would also bet that at 20+ bps the velocity is not as consistant (until we stop using air to propel a paintball). Others pointed out some of the physics above.

The fact of the matter is paintballs will and do collide in mid air, but usually more so in the barrel (for reasons stated above by the others). We actually video taped mid air collisions back in February of this year when testing Richmonds Riot Feed loader.

[KEN CRANE]

i can make this discussion real basic. balls will and do collide. it has nothing to do with punching the hole into the air like racing or physics or anything else that complicated. it all has to do with your lpr/mini reg/ram ect. if for any reason the recharge rate (lpr) drops below a threshold and does not recharge the lpr fast enough drop off will occur. if you have drop off in between good shots balls will collide. their is no math formula that can calculate this as it is not a constant or rhythmical .( had to throw the big words in to sound somewhat important) thog aka tk has seen me do this after testing a converted gun (ir3s and speed 04s are known to do this) as the lprs are slow then add the added ability to cycle faster with eyes bam you have balls smashing into each other. at a point of around 22 bps the balls are at aprox 8 inches apart (can be as close as 6) you will see 1 slow ball and bam a collision happens.somewhere i have pictures showing this effect.

[TheDragonJedi]

ever watch any kind of racing? Notice how one car will drive right behind the other. The front car will take all the drag/wind resistance/other elements, while the car behind it accelerates at an exponential amount over the front car and passes it. Well this is the same physics, just with little round balls of paint and no engine...

yeah drafting and bump-drafting. I use this principle every day on the highway. I usually just get behind a semi and go wit the flo. major difference in gas mileage when you draft cause your vehicle aint doing much work.

though I've yet to come across the red dots of resistance.:puzzled:

[Jetwing@Impactpaintball]

... their is no math formula that can calculate this as it is not a consistant or rythematic...

i believe the word you're looking for is arithmetic... =)

[KEN CRANE]

Originally Posted by KEN CRANE
... their is no math formula that can calculate this as it is not a consistant or rythematic...


i believe the word you're looking for is arithmetic... =)

no its not sorry...
Entry Word: arithmeticFunction: noun Text:
the act or process of performing mathematical operations to find a value <she's terrible in writing but fantastic at arithmetic > -- see CALCULATION

this is the proper use of the word

Main Entry: rhyth·mic
Pronunciation: 'ri[th]-mik
Variant(s): or rhyth·mi·cal /-mi-k&l/
Function: adjective
1 : marked by or moving in pronounced rhythm
2 : of, relating to, or involving rhythm
- rhyth·mi·cal·ly /-mi-k(&-)lE/ ad

If I spelled it correctly it might be more effective....but thank you anyway
___

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Last edited by KEN CRANE : Today at 03:50 PM.

[three fut nuthin]

thakn you ken, big help. So what do yall over all think of the review/parts? Would you buy it?

[KEN CRANE]

thakn you ken, big help. So what do yall over all think of the review/parts? Would you buy it?

this puts me in a tough position. this is not new as we have been working all summer on the correct weight and spring to make sure the spring does not sack out prematurely and the hammer weight is sufficent to hit the valve and fully open it.i am not aware of what jim has worked out here but angelforce has a new style exaust valve and hammer assembly in testing with angelparts.com. testing should be done shortly and then we can advise better.i can only comment on what we as a group have been working on.

[three fut nuthin]

ah, ok. What about the rest of yall? Thanks for all the help in the thread also Ken.

[three fut nuthin]

and so far, nothing has gone wrong. ive put almost 2 cases through it. Would yall buy this when it came out? it is truly amazing, so light

[KEN CRANE]

ever watch any kind of racing? Notice how one car will drive right behind the other. The front car will take all the drag/wind resistance/other elements, while the car behind it accelerates at an exponential amount over the front car and passes it. Well this is the same physics, just with little round balls of paint and no engine...

what happens there is the lead car punches a hole into the air.(legend has it dale earnhart sr could see air this is why he was so dangerous) the following cars continue the flow of air over the car or following cars depending how close they drive.(inches in most cases) this not only allows the cars behind the lead one to drive in "clean" air it does not allow the vortex to pull the lead car backwards. drafting...now to further this drafting lesson, when the 2nd car or any car caught in the draft pulls out of the draft spot it causes the car in front to get sucked backwards allowing the next car to be able to "slingshot" past and "hang the others out". just some super speedway mumbo jumbo.

assandrov its all your fault now.....

[Presto333]

ah i c, i figured it might work on a smaller scale too with paintballs, but it seems like your LPR explanation would be more likely.

[esandov]

Can I become an MT Hater? I mean for christ sake...Ken, must you have an answer for all? My feelings will now be expressed in smilies.

Prest:ph34r:............me:headoff:.............ke n's explanation:nerd:....



me after kens esplanation:night:.......me after coping with it:fanboy:.

[KEN CRANE]

Can I become an MT Hater? I mean for christ sake...Ken, must you have an answer for all? My feelings will now be expressed in smilies.

Prest:ph34r:............me:headoff:.............ke n's explanation:nerd:....



me after kens esplanation:night:.......me after coping with it:fanboy:.


u callin me a geek.... aww my feeling are hurt.:evilgrin: :evilgrin: unfortunatly racing is my first passion so i couldnt help myself. ill go hide for a few days now

[Trigga Nometry]

Ken needs a "I'm not tailgating, I'm drafting" bumper sticker on his ride lol.

[Elren]

I'm interested, is this for the regular populous or just for a select few. Anyone how the results compare to the evolve kit?

[tgallo]

my cat's breath smells like cat food

[KEN CRANE]

my cat's breath smells like cat food


tony i took you for a dog kind of guy.:notsure:

[Jim@ImpactPaintball]

also...if a ball slightly larger than average (per bag) goes through your barrel, it will go drastically slower than the rest....if the next ball behind the "larger" one is smaller...it will leave the barrel at a faster velocity...which can and has caused balls to shoot their friends out of the air...

[Deanomatic]

maybe some of the balls just wanna hug the ones in front ? or the front ones take a break and then the tailgating ones crash into them ?

:P

[Jim@ImpactPaintball]

ive been doing these for a while now...there are alot of people who love it...

[no3ffect]

What guns do you offer it for and how much does it cost?

[three fut nuthin]

like ym review jim:notsure: :boink:

[Luzrd]

my cat's breath smells like cat food

great quote from a legendary mind! = }

now what were we talking bout in here?

[tgallo]

tony i took you for a dog kind of guy.:notsure:

dogs...cats....whatever...they're both good sauteed onions

[Jim@ImpactPaintball]

What guns do you offer it for and how much does it cost?

i have to check the inventory and get back to you man...ill try to PM you tomorrow about it.

[PakmanRevd]

So, seeing as this is a topic, lets stick to it.

Good review bro.. Jim let me know the price, I may wanna get it put on this 04 I have sitting here.. Then get that thing sold..

[Paintballjc]

I may wanna get it put on this 04 I have sitting here.. Then get that thing sold..
You have been trying to sell that stupid thing for over a year lol

[PakmanRevd]

You have been trying to sell that stupid thing for over a year lol

It doesn't wanna sell.. haha

[three fut nuthin]

maybe thats telling you somthing paki? newho...who would buy this product?

[angel4life1]

i would definately buy it. If you can pm me jim if you have any i will buy one.

[PakmanRevd]

Just wanna bring up that this WAS posted on www.68caliber.com and was taken down due to MT's request. Does that mean we should expect something from the MT's soon?

[sk8boardereman]

yo jim is this that super light wieght hammer?

[three fut nuthin]

hey sk8boardman yes, this is the super light hammer.

[sk8boardereman]

good. im not one to care for numbers but my gun was shooting real nice when i put this thing in.

[three fut nuthin]

yeah,i put the hammer and valve in. AMAZING!

[Presto333]

just looked at the pics, that thing looks sweet!!

[Trance.]

JJ can I have it

[three fut nuthin]

pics are up!

Preston..yeah its secks

Dave...no still <3 you tho

[yooler]

yay!... you told me to post my opnion... i guess it seems kool i mean can you compare this to the cobra valve or anything?

[three fut nuthin]

no, just stock. Compare cobra to the stock, then the results from that to te results from Jim's to stock and wah lah!

[yooler]

was your gun properly tunned and everything stock?

[Trance.]

I think I know how it works...


:bouncer:

[yooler]

uh oh

[three fut nuthin]

well, its nice to know dave has a brain

[PakmanRevd]

I got a chance to see how this thing works and the idea is pretty much genious.

Good job Jim. <3

[Jetwing@Impactpaintball]

wow... whoever came up with that valve idea is a genious =)

[three fut nuthin]

hmm i wonder who's idea that was...it is truly amazing. Yall will love it!!

[paintreliever]

when will you have pics of the valve?

[three fut nuthin]

When im aloud :notsure: :tongue: :duh: :pointandl :smiley:

cool smileys today

[three fut nuthin]

Video will be here saturday

[yooler]

heh better hope my barrel gets there.

[three fut nuthin]

that i do!!! you guys will be socked after this video. w00t

[SANO 212]

Jim - any updates to the valve hammer kits being available yet?

[RaistlinsLegacy]

seriously... i really want to see this in action, kind of pissed the force valve is only for the newer markers...

[three fut nuthin]

haha man Raist since when you bveen back? aint seen you here in years!! Vids are coming!!! but this is just as amazing as the vorce valves and its for all the older Angels.

[camebacktoangels1]

yes very intrested.... trying to keep myself updated...

[SANO 212]

I'm waiting to for the release of this kit...drooling over here. Is this a straight forward install with low level of difficulty?

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

I would get it as long as there is a vid and an offical site to buy it from.

[PakmanRevd]

I would get it as long as there is a vid and an offical site to buy it from.

It's Jim, he's a tech at Impact Paintball, one of the underminded Angel Force centers. I'd trust Jim with any/all of my gear.

[three fut nuthin]

Vids coming. The instalation takes maybe 20 minutes. Depends on how well you are with Angels. If your not the one to attempt ityourself, im sure Jim would install it for you.

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

It's Jim, he's a tech at Impact Paintball, one of the underminded Angel Force centers. I'd trust Jim with any/all of my gear.
Ya I am just a cautious person by nature, however I do have full confidence in his abilities as a MT. I just want to see a video and a site to get the upgrade.

[Jim@ImpactPaintball]

im not an MT! and i dont jimify anything lol, please...my head is getting bigger by the second

[three fut nuthin]

Video was taken, but it is pathetic. I was using the worlds worst paint. it was all warped and crap. All i could afford due to tourny fee's next weekend. I got barrel beraks like MAD and it would just be a discrase to post such a good product with crappy paint and video's. SO i will be delaying the video, again, till next weekend when im shooting Draxxus. im terribly sorry for the wait

[SANO 212]

let's all pool some cash together for this kid so he can shoot some decent paint to get this video out already...

now where is the coin slot on this thing???

[three fut nuthin]

Right above the CD drive...

Note: this is 100% paint fualt. NOTHING to do w/ the parts from jim. If you want to see it you can IM me : Mad Caddie Ska

[SANO 212]

dropping in coins as we speak - just checked out the vid in the other post - nice! looking forward to Jim bringing this product out for all of us to use...

[AlmightyRuler]

I can't wait.

[three fut nuthin]

w00t thing is amazing. using it in a tourny sunday.

[AlmightyRuler]

Release date?

[three fut nuthin]

not yet. im sorry. ill let you know right when i know though.

[SD-G-force]

is this valve better than the new one that just came out that ken posted?

[three fut nuthin]

Kens is for G7/06's. This is only for 03,04,05,A4,A4 Fly. So depends on what you shoot to wich will be better hehe.

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

Kens is for G7/06's. This is only for 03,04,05,A4,A4 Fly. So depends on what you shoot to wich will be better hehe.
Ya I personally go for the 04 speeds lol.

[three fut nuthin]

yeah, i love mine.

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

yeah, i love mine.
:cheers:

[SANO 212]

just for my understanding, this upgrade would remove the possible need for an evolve kit correct?

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

just for my understanding, this upgrade would remove the possible need for an evolve kit correct?
yes

[three fut nuthin]

yeah. Only thing evolve has on this is external(sp) adjustablity. This is LIGHTER than evolve so i mean really i would take that over the adjustablity any day.

[lefty21]

OK...Should we expect this after the New Year? How much will it cost? (Not sure if that was asked) Will it be a "drop-in" upgrade or will we have to send our guns in? when is it coming out? (Did I ask that already?)

Sign me up for two...he he he

[three fut nuthin]

No bloody idea when its coming out or how much itll cost. Jim said he had t work some things out. And yes, as far as i would assume it could be a drop im if u wanted.

[SANO 212]

when is Jim giving us an idea to as when this product will be available???

[three fut nuthin]

he hasnt told me anything yet.

[budda]

I am gonna send mine in to him. he has other stuff to do do mine anyway. once it is done i will post pics and a video maybe.

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

Ya I will most likely get it once it comes out.

[three fut nuthin]

yeah, still no idea when its going to be available to yall.

[SpeedFreak05]

it doesnt come with the ram too does it, so basically the valve and the hammer connect to your ram in ur gun.....sry if im wrong correct me im new to this stuff

[three fut nuthin]

right.

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

right.
read pm bro!!

[three fut nuthin]

read, and responded (i think) newho...used it again this weekend, still no problems and im still amazed.

[muppetmowerpb]

Honestly I think this is great. When wdp makes a new gun every 6 months they forget about the customer and expect us to buy a brand new marker. It is exelant that jim is improving the older platforms. dont let wdp/mt's silence you jim, keep on going for the good of the user. i <3 Jim

[Squishy OWNS YOU!!]

Honestly I think this is great. When wdp makes a new gun every 6 months they forget about the customer and expect us to buy a brand new marker. It is exelant that jim is improving the older platforms. dont let wdp/mt's silence you jim, keep on going for the good of the user. i <3 Jim
I kinda of agree even though I love the MTs but I beileve that they need to upgrade the models for the fact that use with having the older models as our primary because we have so much money invested in those makers with upgrades (I hate using the work "invest" and paintball in the same sentence).

[three fut nuthin]

agreed with both of yall. Jim does fantastic work. He just had his hands on my Halo...now its a Jalo and imo blows the MT Ihalo outta the water. Good Work again!

[WDP ir3 2k3]

agreed with both of yall. Jim does fantastic work. He just had his hands on my Halo...now its a Jalo and imo blows the MT Ihalo outta the water. Good Work again!


I beat you love the jalo. When i frist got mine i was like OMG thats so fast. And + it dont matter what coler the paint is. When i ues mine for reball it likes to jam tho. But got to give it to jim for the nice work:cheers:

[lefty21]

agreed with both of yall. Jim does fantastic work. He just had his hands on my Halo...now its a Jalo and imo blows the MT Ihalo outta the water. Good Work again!

Seems like you're trying to pit one against the other...I am sure all MTs do exceptional work...I've personally gone with Jim and Ken and they BOTH do good work and have good custy service. ITs nice to be an advocate, but you shouldn't implicity or explicitly put another down....:notsure: