Why WDP why.

[Spike701]

Ok this may be seen as a rant and maybe it is. I don't want to set any bad blood with it though so be lenient. :patriot:

Why did WDP decide to use a new kind of threading on the G7 Fly. I'm not mad about it because WDP makes very nice markers. But the new post that Ken made got me worried. They made an Arsenal allready with the new threads. Will these new threads be the new standard for all Angels?

It's not that I'm worried because I just recently bought a new barrel kit for my G7. But I utterly don't understand the reasoning to reinvent the wheel. There were allready barrel threadings that could have been used. So why make another kind of thread.

In the end it's better for us if there will be as less kind of marker threads as possible. Less kinds of threads will mean that the barrel producers need to make less kinds of barrels so that's lower costs for them and lower pricing for us.

I completely don't understand the reasoning of WDP for making a new kind of barrel threading.

[no3ffect]

Well simply because they needed one that fit their specifications to do what they wanted just because they're are other barrels out there doesnt mean that those barrels will work for what they want to do.

[EEE]

that's suck big time. I'm always upgrading to a different Angel ever year and I have 4 barrels (retail $450) which I have used often. now with the thought of buying another set of barrel just becuase? THAT SUCK

[KEN CRANE]

Ok this may be seen as a rant and maybe it is. I don't want to set any bad blood with it though so be lenient. :patriot:

Why did WDP decide to use a new kind of threading on the G7 Fly. I'm not mad about it because WDP makes very nice markers. But the new post that Ken made got me worried. They made an Arsenal allready with the new threads. Will these new threads be the new standard for all Angels?

It's not that I'm worried because I just recently bought a new barrel kit for my G7. But I utterly don't understand the reasoning to reinvent the wheel. There were allready barrel threadings that could have been used. So why make another kind of thread.

In the end it's better for us if there will be as less kind of marker threads as possible. Less kinds of threads will mean that the barrel producers need to make less kinds of barrels so that's lower costs for them and lower pricing for us.

I completely don't understand the reasoning of WDP for making a new kind of barrel threading.

ok this deserves a reasonable answer as it seems to be the only negitive issue around the fly.
look at the front of the gun. in order to reduce the profile,change the style and make the gun shorter the front of the gun had to be redesigned. if and when you get a chance to physicaly hold a fly look at the amount and room at the barrel section. it has been shortened and the diamater around the barrel thread area had to be reduced from course to fine threading. this was the only way to achive this. THIS WILL BE THE FUTURE THREAD PATTERN FOR ALL ANGELS .
it is here to stay. wdp looked into other thread paterns but it would only muddy the waters and this unfortunatly is the best way to acheive the new styling. yes it will suck if you have a barrel kit and want to use it for the fly. but the overall style,look,and functionality of this change will be a good thing. remember it isnt always the most popular choice to change a proven thing but whom ever stands still will have sore legs.i am sorry if it isnt the information some wanted to hear but i will say this much. the fly is awsome and the future is real bright with wdp.

also the comments "why not use cocker threads"
chevy wont use ford wheel paterns,ford wont use dodge patterns ect. no cocker threads,not for a wdp marker. but lol maybe they will use ours.

[leperchaun]

hey ken arn't you guys going to make an adapter so you can use the barells that you already have?? i thoght that i saw trigga post it in his thread about the fly. Is this true or not because i love the fly but i didn't want to spend another 200 on a stiffi switch kitif and when they make one for the fly threads

[Spike701]

Thanks for the answer Ken.

[firemedic30]

Just a small point, the Arsenal does NOT have new threads!

[Trigga Nometry]

Just a small point, the Arsenal does NOT have new threads!The NEWER Arsenal G7 does along with the new Fly trigger.

http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=47164

[firemedic30]

Yeah, I just saw that!!!! DAMN!!! I just got my Arsenal too!!!

[napnap]

Now, I'm all for putting new barrel threads on the G7 Fly. Yes, it will suck to have to buy new barrels, but if it makes the gun lighter and tighter, it will be worth it.

My big beef is that it didn't use cocker threads. Cocker threads would have done the same thing as the new threads do. From Ken's post, it sounds like the only reason WDP didn't use cocker threads was because of pride. Nothing else. Cockers were the first to use vertical feed and to have ACEs. WDP didn't mind using these. Whats the big deal with using their threads?

Why would cocker threads be better?
First, cocker barrels are readily available. EVERYONE makes them. Does anybody make the new Angel threads yet? Not to my knowledge. I've heard that WDP sent barrel makers the specs, but I guarantee it will take a while for the majority of barrel makers to start stocking the new threads. Why? There's just not enough demand yet for them to be worth the hassle. Most people will be stuck using the stock barrel for a while. Even though it is a nice barrel, people want variety.
Next, there should be a universal paintball barrel thread. Companies are making a ton of money off of selling you the same barrel for different markers. It would be nice to have to by one barrel and be able to use it for all guns. Since cocker threads are used by the majority of top-end guns, WDP should have followed suit.
Third, Cocker barrels would be cheaper because they're readily available. I haven't owned a cocker in years, but I have two cocker barrels sitting in my closet. I'm sure I'm not the only one. If you don't own any- go on e-bay. There's tons of them there for a fraction of the MSRP. You won't find any new Angel threads up there at those prices for a long time.

A barrel adapter doesn't cut it for me. You lose the whole reason for changing the threads- making it lighter and tighter. Also, adapters need to be huge bored to fit all barrels. This hurts efficiency and accuracy. They also have a second seam in them the could potentially cause barrel breaks.

One of the reasons I have loved WDP over the years is that I've considered them a leader in the paintball community. However, they really dropped the ball here. I love the new G7 fly. The only thing that is holding me back from buying one is the barrel threads.

[Spike701]

Napnap I agree with you, and I also fear that it was just plain old pride that they decided not to pick cocker threads.

[FATBACK]

chevy wont use ford wheel paterns,ford wont use dodge patterns ect.
Actually from the mid-late 60's to the late 80's ford passenger car 5-lug was the same as dodge passenger car 5-lug (except drum brake A-bodies) and AMC passenger 5-lug..............also dodge truck and ford truck used the same "wide-5" pattern for many years :clown:

[Necrophobia420]

Actually from the mid-late 60's to the late 80's ford passenger car 5-lug was the same as dodge passenger car 5-lug (except drum brake A-bodies) and AMC passenger 5-lug..............also dodge truck and ford truck used the same "wide-5" pattern for many years :clown:Wow. Now THAT is a burn if I've ever heard one.

[Trigga Nometry]

Are we really getting anywhere will all this? We know how both sides of the issue feel. The decision has been made and certianly looks like it is final. Not much else you can do about it. Either support the change or don't.

Even if a sense of pride was the issue, a company is not allowed to have pride? It is their decision to make isn't it?

Do you have a right to be angry and voice how you feel? Sure. You really have a right to complain if you personally own stock in the company's decision. I don't think anyone here does.

[EEE]

all and all it's only $$$$$$$$, I'm a Angel for life...

[RyanR]

just out of curiosity, could WDP mill a stock G7 to have the FLY threads?

[K4S]

Im glad ken verified that this is the new angel threading for all future angels. Im a little upset since i have a barrel kit that cost me an arm and a leg but i can understand how this change is for the better.

...and im still debating on whether getting a fly or not :x So tempting but i dont want to be a gun whore heh.

[ITO]

I am a little bothered they did not elect to standardize the threads to something like cocker.

[Hep]

Why in the hell would they use a so called standard "cocker" thread for? Its not a cocker nor a stacked tube gun like every other ripp off marker out there. They keep it real and dont follow which is what the industry needs. Leaders not followers. If you dont like it then you know what you dont have to buy it. Simple thinking. But almost everyone on here that complains will have this marker and the new barrel threading sooner or later. ha ha Deal with it. I cannot deny I love the look of it and hence the reason Im selling my Force 4 now. The others that say no one will make a barrel anytime soon are nuts. There is plenty opprotunity right now to be one of only few to offer this new barrel threading. So to say the barrel makers will just set back and not make one is completely out of their mind. Thats a whole new revenue and that makes sence.
Cuz if it dont make dollars it dont make cents.
Hep

[FATBACK]

Why in the hell would they use a so called standard "cocker" thread for? Its not a cocker nor a stacked tube gun like every other ripp off marker out there. They keep it real and dont follow which is what the industry needs. Leaders not followers. If you dont like it then you know what you dont have to buy it. Simple thinking. But almost everyone on here that complains will have this marker and the new barrel threading sooner or later. ha ha Deal with it. I cannot deny I love the look of it and hence the reason Im selling my Force 4 now. The others that say no one will make a barrel anytime soon are nuts. There is plenty opprotunity right now to be one of only few to offer this new barrel threading. So to say the barrel makers will just set back and not make one is completely out of their mind. Thats a whole new revenue and that makes sence.
Cuz if it dont make dollars it dont make cents.
Hep

QFT

[Furby]

I'd like to see the barrels laid next to each other for a comparo...I got a feeling the new Angel threads are smaller than 'cocker threads...

[Trigga Nometry]

I'd like to see the barrels laid next to each other for a comparo...I got a feeling the new Angel threads are smaller than 'cocker threads...http://www.angel-owners.com/showpost.php?p=431057&postcount=2

[ITO]

Ken- Thank you for responding to my concerns. I would like to take your analogy though and point a small thing out, all the automakers do standardize items like batteries, and tires. They are not in the business of making these items just like Angel is not into the business of making barrels.

Napnap- You not only hit the nail on the head, you drove the damn thing through the board to the other side. You stated EXACTLY what I wanted to say.

Necorphoia420- This is not a flame war or a place to take make points with posts. This IS a place to discuss issue with the G7 and Ken IS a person how has contacts with Angel has some inside knowledge and willing to talk to him. Please please, don’t turn this into an “us-against-him” discussion. There are no “burns” here, and if someone does make a good counter point we are all intelligent enough to see it without comments pointing it out as a burn.

Trigga- As a someone who has run a business I can tell you NO decision is final and they will listen if enough people say something about this. There are plenty of examples of manufactures that don’t listen to their customers…take Apple for example. It’s a better computer with limited applications, and a shrinking market share.

Hep- They are not keeping it real or being leaders, they are ignoring the wishes of a majority of thier loyal customers and unless someone can show me how, there is no good reason not to standardize. Its good for the customers, and the industry.

[Trigga Nometry]

ITO - I wish I had something that I could feel as an appropriate response to continue the debate with you but all your points, as usually, are taken very well stated, as are Napnap's. When the heck are you not going to give me a reason to respect your opinion? lol

This has got to be one of the best open debates on a controversial issue (at least for Angel owner's it is) I have read in a real long time. Cool.

[no3ffect]

Okay look they didnt use the autococker threads simply because they were to long for they style the wanted to achieve on the the fly. Why would they use cocker threads if it doesnt even work for what they are trying to do?

[leperchaun]

hey ken arn't you guys going to make an adapter so you can use the barells that you already have?? i thoght that i saw trigga post it in his thread about the fly. Is this true or not


hey dude if you dont like the new threads just buy the adapter that trigga was talking about in the thread he made about the fly g7.

[Ragin Cajun]

It seems as if using the new threads enables WDP to carve the front of the gun more. Now Im all for weight reduction, but the difference it would have made to go with cocker threads instead of the new threads would have been minimal at best. WDP would have owed noone anything because a thread pattern isnt something that can be patented. The only reason I can see this change is for A fresher new look and somehwat a new beginning in the minds of those at WDP. KInd of like...new gun, new trigger, new software, new threads. I hate to say it but WDP is killing their marker resale and as customer I would like to keep the resale on my gun as high as possibel. But with a new version coming out every month it seems impossible. I will definately think twice before I buy another angel. They are nice guns, but their following is small. If flooding the market with new versions of each gun is their answer to world domination they may need to rethink their tactics. Just my .02

[crazy man]

good point cajun
kinda makes me think twice about what angel to get...
this whole thread does

[Trigga Nometry]

hey ken arn't you guys going to make an adapter so you can use the barells that you already have?? i thoght that i saw trigga post it in his thread about the fly. Is this true or not


hey dude if you dont like the new threads just buy the adapter that trigga was talking about in the thread he made about the fly g7.I am pretty sure some of the MT's are in SD this weekend so he may not be answering this right away.

Unless the facts have changed, he did specifically tell me that adapters are being made. But that is all he mentioned to me. He mentioned it to me when I went to pick up his G7 Fly.

[leperchaun]

i know trigga i was just trying to get that point across... the whole stop your bitchin and if you dont like it dont get the gun or get an adapter point

[Peter314]

I talked to the guys from WDP last week and they wanted to go with cocker threads but it didn't fit. The outer diameter is too thick and it is a little longer than what they wanted. If you guys haven't noticed they are actually Tippmann A5 threads. The G7 Fly barrel is slightly shorter though. But the Tippmann A5 Barrel does fit just fine. WDP is also the European Distributor for Tippmann. That may also be a reason why they went with those threads.

[crazy man]

holy hell... ya know someones gonna put a flatline on a fly
and make a vid...

[sirekilla]

holy hell... ya know someones gonna put a flatline on a fly
and make a vid...
thats not coolbut now thinking of it the threads do look like a a-5 threads. hmmmm

[Spike701]

It wont fit cause the flatline isn't screwed in the threads of an A5. You completely remove the threadadapter from the A5 and you mount the flatline with it's own adapter.

[dusted]

yes a-5 barrel fits, tried it at san diego nppl this weekend

[paintmauler]

sorry didnt read every single post i was becoming lazy. :doh:

[no3ffect]

Okay how many times do we have to say that the issue of pride isnt the freaking reason its been said mutiple times and has been confirmed multiple times that cocker threads just did not meet the specs required to do what was needed so there is no real reason to beat the whole cocker thing into the ground.

[ITO]

Wow, Tippmann threads?

Well that could be considered a 'more' standard thread pattern, and it does not hurt that have tones of A5 Barrel kits.

[crazy man]

thats not coolbut now thinking of it the threads do look like a a-5 threads. hmmmm

i would rather it be a-5 threads than cocker threads :cheers:

lets just hope tippman doesn't pull a smartparts and file a lawsuit :angry:

[Spike701]

Uhm a company can't sue a company for using a specific thread pattern. Because most of the threads that they use were allready in use before paintball was invented. Examples of threads UNP, Metric etc.

[paintmauler]

well considering tippman gets nothing out of it since they dont really make aftermarket barrels that people buy ahem....u could also mayb argue that it will make them ahppy b.c companies will want to carry more tippman threaded barrels, but then again it doesn't help their company really, only the people who make aftermarket barrels.

[Jim-Fallout]

Maybe they did it so we could use the apex barrell now? :drools:

[ITO]

...WDP is also the European Distributor for Tippmann. That may also be a reason why they went with those threads....
I think these two sentences just about says it all.



.

[crazy man]

eh i was jus poking fun at smartparts and thier multiple lawsuits...because their plan to foil wdp's sucess as a better company than them...backfired on 'em
(not really... i dont know what im talking about, other than the fact that wdp made sp look like fools recently...) :cheers: :drink:

[A4Flyguy]

I talked to the guys from WDP last week and they wanted to go with cocker threads but it didn't fit. The outer diameter is too thick and it is a little longer than what they wanted. If you guys haven't noticed they are actually Tippmann A5 threads. The G7 Fly barrel is slightly shorter though. But the Tippmann A5 Barrel does fit just fine. WDP is also the European Distributor for Tippmann. That may also be a reason why they went with those threads.

I have one of the new G7 Flys. It was a difficult decision to buy it because of the barrels. BUT, do you think that the major barrel producers wouldnt produce a compatible barrel for one of the most recognized lines of markers in the world. I knew it was A5 thread, and I have ttried A5 barrels, however I dont know if the freak back for A5 will fit due to the tight tolerances of the fly body which wraps around the barrel. With a few ohone calls, DYE and Stiffi are in final production for complete lines to be reduced within a month.

dont sweat it guys, its the future of Angels. So u gotta buy another freak back, or sell your existing kit to buy another, just do what you have to. I compared this new fly to everything on the wall, and there is no DM5, or Ego that compared to the quality of this new Angel. And I got it on Angel day to boot, so I paid 1175 for it. Gloss black to blue fade.

[xxmjumpman23xx]

I agree with cajun, I am SOOOO FRIKIN TIRED of WDP releasing a new gun every frikin few months, they release like 4 guns a year, smart parts has stuck with the shocker, dye has one dm every year, the ego has been around a while, but yet wdp changes wayy to much, they charge 1400 for a gun and then 3 months later the retail drops down dramatically because the newer "better" angel has come out. :stooges: :angry:

[redhotee]

sweet now wdp has 2 threads that suck.

my first gun was an a5 and the bearal would shoot off evrey 5 games. hell we even put locktight on it and it still came off. and regular angel threads bother me as some aftermarket bearals dont fit at all. my ul wouldent fit into my ir3 and my freak is to small and my stock needs to be pounded in with a rubber mallet.

as for cocker threading being to long well change the gun soon 90% of guns will be cocker threaded. and i doubt the that the gun has been made so much shorter that u can move the place where u screw it in back what ever % of an inch it is

[FATBACK]

smart parts has stuck with the shocker, dye has one dm every year, the ego has been around a while

There are 2 dye guns (DM5 and DMC) plus shocktechs version if you wnat to split hairs, a thousand private label shockers and now, what? 4 egos? stock/xsv/mantis/nexus...dont even start on timmies..........if you're worried about resale, buy something you think will hold its value .............or just wait "3 months" and buy the angel that was cool then.......like renting movies instead of going to them :stooges:

[sirekilla]

There are 2 dye guns (DM5 and DMC) plus shocktechs version if you wnat to split hairs, a thousand private label shockers and now, what? 4 egos? stock/xsv/mantis/nexus...dont even start on timmies..........if you're worried about resale, buy something you think will hold its value .............or just wait "3 months" and buy the angel that was cool then.......like renting movies instead of going to them :stooges:
if your counting pl guns than this year we have...g7,arsenal g7, joy g7, fly g7, arsenal fly g7, joy g7 fly(soon i heard), cobra g7, dark g7.

wow thats like 9 guns this year. my thing is if the g7 was so great why did the fly co e out som soon? I like them improving products but I dont like the fact that they are always making new guns every couple of months and droping the prices way way down. wdp please just make 1 gun a year

[FATBACK]

if your counting pl guns than this year we have...g7,arsenal g7, joy g7, fly g7, arsenal fly g7, joy g7 fly(soon i heard), cobra g7, dark g7.

wow thats like 9 guns this year. my thing is if the g7 was so great why did the fly co e out som soon? I like them improving products but I dont like the fact that they are always making new guns every couple of months and droping the prices way way down. wdp please just make 1 gun a year

The cobra and the dark are'nt "wdp" guns.................and it only matters if you have to have the latest and greatest, i just got a great deal on a used g7 .45 so price drops dont bother me, i usually keep my guns for awhile.............

[ITO]

The thread change is a big deal, and according to Bob, they are NOT A5 threads. So this means if you want to stick with Angel all your old barrels will be obsolete.

[pimpsta]

yep wat he said

[JonnyQwest]

I was lucky enough to buy the pre-flied arsenal g7. All the bennies and looks but no new threads. I love it. (although one more inch off the front and that cool new milling in the front would have been nice but I don't think it's worth it for the new threads). New looks and new profile at the cost of new threads. I guess that is the choice to be made. All the G7s run the same. They just look a little different. You decide.

[Ragin Cajun]

If I wanted an extra inch off of the front of my gun I would buy a 14" barrel instead of a 16". Wdp floods the market, or tries to, with not really new guns but new versions of the same gun. I liked my G7 but I will never go back to an angel because of resale. I want my gun to be worth something if I ever do get rid of it. Whats killing WDP is the extra weight of the marker and inferior software and PRICE. The market is leaning towards lighter, faster markers. I believe that WDP hurt themselves a couple years back when they wanted to be different and opted for the COPS system. Users realized that it didnt work well and new markers with eyes rose to the top. Once WDP did see the need and demand for eyes they were to slow in producing a real eyes system for the angel. Instead, installers used epoxy to attach the eyes to the gun. What an eyesore. Angels are good guns. Always have been. Their workmanship is great, but I believe they are to little, to late.

[tman-89]

come on guys, WDP is just like any other company; they are trying to make money. So what if they pump out a couple of guns every year? Good for them. They are keeping the market fresh. The fact is that in order to keep up with the consumer's needs, WDP will continue to do this. yes, they care about the person who bought an angel 3 months ago thinking they were getting the newest and hottest thing out there, but they also care about the person who's looking to buy an angel now. Money is the ultimate driving force behind these kind of things, and WDP is doing whats best (in their mind) for the company. Now, do I agree with this? not necessarily. I now have a gun thats not even a year old, and probably has a resale value of a peanut (compared to what newer guns are reselling at). No, its not good for me that WDP is pumping out guns every few months or so, but its good that more and more people are coming to the Angel family because of the large range of options.

[xxmjumpman23xx]

come on guys, WDP is just like any other company; they are trying to make money. So what if they pump out a couple of guns every year? Good for them. They are keeping the market fresh. The fact is that in order to keep up with the consumer's needs, WDP will continue to do this. yes, they care about the person who bought an angel 3 months ago thinking they were getting the newest and hottest thing out there, but they also care about the person who's looking to buy an angel now. Money is the ultimate driving force behind these kind of things, and WDP is doing whats best (in their mind) for the company. Now, do I agree with this? not necessarily. I now have a gun thats not even a year old, and probably has a resale value of a peanut (compared to what newer guns are reselling at). No, its not good for me that WDP is pumping out guns every few months or so, but its good that more and more people are coming to the Angel family because of the large range of options.


They need 2 guns a year max, i mean come one, every gun since '03 has had the capability to shoot 31 bps, its just new looks different internals etc, WDP shouldnt have come out with the fly I mean come on the new angels are due out in March then the fly too will become obsolete, just my opinion i still love WDP for life :cheers:

[ITO]

I don’t care how many new markers they make a year...big-whoop-tee-doo. I just want an industry standard barrel thread so when they come out with a g7 or g7.2 or g7fly or g7.2arsenly super duper fly swatter, or darth angel a8 whatever, that it does not make my rather sizeable investment in barrels OBSO-CRUNKING-LETE.

[ITO]

Time to tell the poeple that need to hear it instead of only spouting off here... I sent this today:

sales@wdp.tv

WDP Angel,

Recently I read at www.aog.com that there would be a new thread size for the G7 Fly and all future Angel markers and this thread size would not conform to any existing industry barrel thread size. If this is true, it is extremely disappointing, and I feel it is a disservice to your loyal customer base, as well as a poor business decision.

Brand Loyalty is something most manufactures work hard to obtain, and to some extent WDP has been successful at, but it will only get you so far then you had better back it up with some Customer Loyalty. We as your customer base have individually invested thousands of dollars in markers and barrels, only now to find out our barrels will become obsolete. This would not be so bad if you had chosen to show us some consideration for our loyalty by using another industry standard thread pattern like Cocker threads, so this won’t happen again.

Instead it looks like you have decided to re-invent the wheel. Why? With all thread patterns in the industry already surely one of them would have been able to meet your design criteria needs and a switch to Cocker threads would have opened up a whole new market group to you. Think about it every barrel manufacturer already has barrels and stock with the Cocker thread pattern and any other high-end marker owners would be able to switch to Angel fairly painlessly while keeping all there old barrels.

Please look at your customer base’s best interest and reconsider your decision to switch to this barrel and make our existing barrel investments worthless.

If nothing I said here dissuades you then consider this, my next high-end marker purchase will have cocker threads. You may make the best markers on the market, but if I have to buy all new barrels, they won’t be for a company that takes my money for granted.

Respectfully,

ITO

[A4Flyguy]

Time to tell the poeple that need to hear it instead of only spouting off here... I sent this today:


::applause::

nicely written. i have been worried about this barrel issue since I got my G7 Fly last friday. I hope something happens. I also heard a rumor that SP cant create a new freak back because there isnt enough space within the body for the bulky freak backs to be used. I hope they are wroong.. I have 3 tips and 3 different threaded backs for my freak already

[Ragin Cajun]

I believe alot of campanies will have to completely make a new barrel to fit the fly ust because of clearance issues. Their stock backs will be to bulky to fit in the tight space. Bad move by WDP IMHO.

[K4S]

Time to tell the poeple that need to hear it instead of only spouting off here... I sent this today:


Very nicely written. I couldnt have phrased it any better. And right now i am enjoying my g7 as much as possible but at this point i feel robbed after spending a lot of $$$ on a titanium barrel kit. I spent a lot of money on barrels because i intended to stick with angels for a long time since i first got an ir3 when they were released. Since i know WDP will not change their barrel threading i'm going to wait for the barrel adapter and unless its awesome my next high end marker is going to have cocker threads as well.

[ITO]

....and thier response:


Hi ITO, Thanks for the e-mail.

The decision to change barrel thread has already taken place and was not taken lightly I can assure you. Our original design plan was to be able to reduce the size and weight of the Angel and at the same time also go to cocker threads during this size reduction process, however when our design team started to look at the removal of material from the body of the marker it soon became apparent that we would not be able to achieve what we wanted to if we changed to cocker threads, in fact we would not have been able to reduce the weight of the Angel at all if we had done this as we would have had to actually add material in some areas to incorporate cocker threads. The reason we wanted to reduce weight and size in the first place was because we had listened to what our customers were saying at tournaments, on various forums, in conversations, and e-mail correspondence with us, they wanted a smaller and lighter Angel. We understand people may have already got barrel kits with the old thread pattern and we also knew that no after market barrels would be available in this thread size. We did not want our customers not to have an alternative barrel option available at launch so we informed the barrel manufacturers such as DYE, Custom Products, Stiff, etc of this thread change several months in advance so they could have product available at the time of the guns launch so our customers should they require could purchase barrels of differing length and bore size without any delay ( DYE and Custom Products had product available at launch) , we also informed our own techs of this change as we knew that they would be wanting to produce a thread convertor to allow older style Angel barrels to be used on the new thread pattern by way of a convertor ( I think Ken/Performanceangel.com and Robert/fixmyangel.com actually have these arriving shortly if they don't already have them).
As a manufacturer you constantly try to improve your product. If things can be improved by change, then surely change is the correct way forward? The old barrel thread was dictating the size of the Angel to our designers. They were restricted due to the lead in shank on the original barrel thread as it dictated the length of the front section of the gun to us and no matter what we did with the guns internals, we could not reduce the length of the gun from the feed neck forwards. Changing the barrel thread to its new thread pattern has allowed us to remove material from the body of the marker, resulting in a reduction in both size and weight, and has also opend up new areas for our design team to work in that they did not have access to before. It was a necessary stage in the development and evolution of the Angel that will allow us to progress and develop the product further.

If you have any other questions on this matter please feel free to contact me I will be happy to answer them.

All the best,
Frazer Colley.

[FATBACK]

Nice reply by Frazer and at least he replied back.....he stated their reasons and if anything its something they didnt do on a whim ssssooooo i'm willing to cut them some slack, besides everyone will forget about this by next year...i wonder if the tippy guys went throught this with the a-5/98 barrel threading?..........and for some players that feel they have to buy a cocker threaded gun for their next high-end purchase so they can use some old barrels laying around or save $30 bucks buying a used cocker kit, well more power to ya.......i'll just have to buy a new barrel kit when the time comes that a new angel needs to be in my gear bag...a small price to pay for having the best marker produced IMO :cheers:

[Trigga Nometry]

While it might not be what some Angel owners wanted to hear, at least you now heard it from Frazer (WDP).

My guess is that email from Frazer has been sent out......A LOT!

[ITO]

What Frazer is overlooking is that the same pro tourney players that are telling him they want a lighter maker, are often sponsored and don’t have to pay for all new barrels out of their pockets.

[spy 1]

When will the barrel adapter be available ??

[ITO]

I have read in several places that YES it will be available.

[spy 1]

But WHEN will they be available at the commanders cup ?

[Deanomatic]

by that letter .. most of the big barrel companies knew ahead of time..

but so far only CP sells em..

heh weee :P dag nabbit.. i wanted a stiffi(no pun intended)

[dusted]

i believe if u call dye directly they have the ultralight also

[hgroberts]

cool beans

[headiebean]

man, i was thinking of getting a g7, because the new fly looks too much like a dragon timmy for me. but i dont know what to get.

on the one hand, i like the first generation g7 the best,

but on the other hand, if this new barrel pattern is the way of the future, i might get a fly.

maaan, wdp make things interesting, dont they? :hititraw:

[FRED-D]

Yes!!! Wdp Needs To Make A Back End Adapter....so That We Can Still Use The Old Angel Barrels That We Invested On....most Of Us Here Are All Angel's Fan And We'll Be Forever..so Please Wdp, Here Our Voices On This. The New Threading Is Ok To Me..just Please Make That Back End Adapter.tnx Wdp.....KEEP MAKING US HAPPY AND WE'LL DO THE SAME IN RETURN...

[xxmjumpman23xx]

AWWW comne on the new fly is just plain sexy, i dont think it looks like a dragon timmy at all, and yea this will be the new thread for all future angels, just get the fly!

[SD-G-force]

i love my fly O_O