ROF Problem

[jdp72]

I recently had my Force 4 converted with eyes by one of the MT's, and I have come across a problem on 2 occassions spanning 2 weeks apart.

2 weeks ago this happened:

After shooting about 1,000 rounds my Angel started acting funny and would only shoot like after every 3 or 4 trigger pulls. I thought that the eyes were covered with paint or something, although I did not see any broken paint... So I hold the trigger down to manually overide the eyes and play on.

After the game I take the loader off and replace the batteries and take off the eyes to give them a good cleaning. I then put everything together and go to the chrono to shoot it. Same problem...shoots like every 3-4 trigger pulls. I'm baffled...

I go to my Impulse backup (my Speed is currently with Eric at All-Star to get tuned up for the season)... Play the rest of the day trouble free... And my buddy asks what happened to the Angel... I tell him and he asks if he can have a shot at trying to figure it out... I put the loader back on, gas it up and we go to the chrono and it shoots strings of paint again.

I forget about what happened 2 weeks ago and then yesterday the same exact thing happens right around 1/2 a case of paint... This time frustration sets in, and a buddy who shoots a DM5 (remembering what happened 2 weeks ago) says that's why I don't shoot Angel's...and the bashing sets in. I never once had a problem with the sensi with either the Speed or the Force4... Not sure what is going on. I degas and go back to the Impulse...

Before I leave for the day I gas up the Angel and load it full of paint, and it shoots strings again... WTF do you guys think is happening??? Absolutely ZERO ball breaks or chops and nothing in the manual, that I can see, to explain this phenomonon...

[bigfootimp]

Sounds like your toe adjustment may be off a little bit and doesn't always activate the board. Try turning your toe screw in a little bit and see if that fixes the problem.

[jdp72]

Sorry... I should re-type my original post... While taking the eyes off to clean them I moved the vernier trigger wheels so that the trigger would move it's full range and I visually checked to make sure the trigger was in fact being activated.

Does anyone else have any suggestions? Hopefully Ken or an MT? I'll probably give Eric a call later in the week when I find time during work hours.

[rix123]

...re-check the TOE screw setting. If the v-wheels are set to allow the full range of fore/aft movement, then the TOE adjustment copuld be the problem. During a trigger pull-release-pull sequence, in the release sequence it MUST travel forward enough to reset the opto board so the next pull will cause the marker to fire.

..try adjusting the TOE screw OUTWARDS about about ONE to ONE-HALF 'flat' of the hex wrench. That should be enough to fix your problem if it is not completely resetting.

..if not, sending it back to the MT who fly'ed it could not hurt you...but, you may have just thrown the adjustment off when "moved the venier wheels.."

[jdp72]

I might not have been clear before... I saw the FULL range of the switch on the Fly board move when I had the grip off. This will probably warrant a call to Eric at All Star since he performed the conversion.

[jdp72]

What really has me baffled is that the marker shot perfect (albeit comparatively slow) when the eyes were turned off...and would act crazy with the eyes on. I would think that if there was gunk on the eyes it would be fooled into thinking there was always paint present, so I should have been able to fire just fine (with risk of chopping of course)...but that was not the case. The eyes were fine, and the LaserEye feature is pretty nice in that regard...and you can just pop open the rotorbreach for a quick check.

Hopefully I don't ever come across this with my Flied Speed.

[jdp72]

Still having the same problem, and left Eric a few emails but he never responded. I guess I'll hit up the WDP booth at the Chicago Open this weekend and hopefully a Tech there can help me out.

[paintreliever]

I would think that if there was gunk on the eyes it would be fooled into thinking there was always paint present, so I should have been able to fire just fine (with risk of chopping of course)...but that was not the case.
thats because the eyes have some programming in them that senses when a ball is moving..its hard to explain sense that im not in the mood to think, but im sure someone on here can futher explain it..sorry for being lazy :boobies:

[Vantage_TeS]

The eyes are programmed to not see each other, let one shot off, then they have to see each other again to reset for the next shot.

[jdp72]

Sorry, I'm lost...

Are you saying this could explain the phenomon that I am going through?

The eyes are clean, and I've got another set of eyes that I've put in with the same results... Just played this weekend at Badlandz (Crete, IL) and one of the Russian Legion guys was trying to help me out. They were practicing or playing against Aftershock before the Chicago Open.

Basically, he damned WDP to hell and said that's why his team decided to go with Timmy's after using Speeds for a season.

I couldn't say much in defense with a non-functioning Force4 Fly sitting there in my hands.

Hopefully there will be a MT present this Saturday at the Open... Anybody else from AOG going to be around there this weekend? HEP are you coming back up north this year???

[paintreliever]

i dont know what is wrong with your angel, but when you find out please tell, i havnt heard of this before..

[jdp72]

The eyes are programmed to not see each other, let one shot off, then they have to see each other again to reset for the next shot.


Well I met up with Sean and Eric at the Open and they told me that the problem was due to the eyes not being EXACTLY lined up. They said that during the ball drop test it only passed some of the time, which supposedly explains my phenonomon that I am going through. Not sure how the eyes could have shifted, but the marker (of course) shots strings of paint again... He sort of explained how maybe one of the eyes may have shifted while playing or something.

In any event, hopefully it's fixed...and the bonus is I got my Fly board flashed with the latest/greatest software update.

My next question is, how do I ensure that the eyes are always correctly lined up? Does anyone have a system that I can use when taking apart and putting back together the marker???

Thanks.

[paintreliever]

maybe you didnt snap them in all the way..they were probly loose because they werent fulling snapped in..

[jdp72]

What does "snap" in mean? How will I know? Will there be an audible click? Or I'll feel something snap in when I put the eyes back in or something? I used the marker without touching anything and went straight to the field the first time and this happened... So maybe during the shipping process it jarred something? But then again the marker shot just fine in the beginning, which of course was installed by the MT.

Sorry I am sounding so paranoid now, but once a marker fails me on a few occassions I am always hesitant to use it during a big game situation... My Flied Speed on the other hand has never once troubled me, nor has my Ratpulse.

[rix123]

...NO, the eyes don't "click" in..it is simply a matter of 'alignment'. in most cases you do not have to remove the eyes when you clean the marker. you can use an old tooth brush to clean out the eye area by sticking it in from the breech side quite easily, combined with use of a spray bottle or a compressed air source.

...when reassembling after removing eyes, just make sure the eyes are fully seated BEFORE you put eye covers on and tighten them down...then do the eye test after reassembly. if necessary you can always loosen/remove eye covers and reseat eyes if they fail testing...

...me personally, I don't remove them unless it is necessary...that old "don't fix what ain't broke" mentality...

[paintreliever]

mine click....maybe its just me...

[Talon]

Mine sort of click as well. Not so much an audible click, but you can tell when they are going into their respective slots aligned and in position. Once reassembled, do an eye test, if it doesn't pass 10 out of 10, reseat the eyes. If it does, go mow some muppets.

[jdp72]

i dont know what is wrong with your angel, but when you find out please tell, i havnt heard of this before..


Here is another going through the same thing I am going through...

http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?p=407189#post407189

I am still having problems with both my converted angels not shooting correctly. They are both passing the eye test, so the eyes are in right. It just seems like purely random events... Not sure what to make of it.

[BoB]

Unfortunately, it may be as simple as the eye ribbon socket is bad or loose. I would recommending it in for a full diagnostic.

[jdp72]

Unfortunately, it may be as simple as the eye ribbon socket is bad or loose. I would recommending it in for a full diagnostic.


Sean from All-Star looked at both of them at the Chicago Open, wonder why he didn't do a full diagnostic then when he had them.

As for the eye ribbon socket, I don't think it's that...

[BoB]

Low battery, bad eye ribbon, trigger adjustment or bad board. Based on what you have written, the board seems to be the last thing.