Convince me to get an Angel

[thedoubleop]

Hey I got a 99 LED angel and i like it a lot but I feel that I need a new gun and I'm currently looking at DM5 and the (Cant say the name cuz they are an evil company bent on world destruction... Hint Hint, they don't get along with WDP so well) Can some one tell me about the features and all of the gun? my led has a freak on it and its not all that accurate :notsure: I was just wondering how the G7 is to stack up to the rest of the Top of the line markers, I'd rather shoot 15 bps and one ball an opponent out than dump a hopper on him and hit him once or twice... Thanks for your help everyone :cheers:

[Krazy American]

The G7 is going to whoop the DM5. If you have shot a Fly, the G7 is going to be better than that. I have shot DM5 and Fly. The Fly was much more accurate.

[dynastySSS]

lighter, more reliable, less matenice(sp), alot cooler looking, made by WDP lol, its just flat out better

[flyordie06]

Accuracy wise, the G7's ram is 30% smaller than previously which means less kick so you will be shooting off of a more level platform. Steady gun=rope of paint

[thedoubleop]

I just have to have something thats gonna paint where I want it when I want it :blasting: :owned:

By the way whats the price and when can i get one? I work at a Field So hopefully I can get my 10% discount LoL :stooges:

[Talon]

I don't think Orlando Paintball has an account with WDP, but I could be wrong. At least, there weren't any in there when I stopped by with my cousin, who is looking at getting into the sport finally. On the other hand, by working for a store/field, some professional courtesy might be extended by someone with an active WDP purchasing account, for that I'd find a MT, a tech, or a team that might be able to help you out.

The generations of Angels out now, like the Fly, Force Fly, 05 Speed, and soon to be G7, are hard to compare to an LED. Even though they are all made by WDP, the advancements have been so great I don't think they can compare.

It seems the problem we are at now, is that technology is about as pushed to the limit as it can get for a little while and most of the high end tournament markers (New Generations of Angels listed above, the DM5, etc) are very similar when it comes to overall performance. I personally feel that WDP's craftsmanship, dedication, style, innovation, and comfort are what set Angels apart from everything else. But when it comes down to speed, accuracy, and range the field is rather close.

Angel owner for life!

[thedoubleop]

Do you go to OP? LoL maybe let me shoot your Angel LoL :puzzled: :x:

[Major Morningwood]

I think for the difference, you couldn't go wrong with either the DM5 or the Angel. Yes this board is a bit biased, however if you have the money to blow then by all means get the G7. If not give it a few weeks after the G7 hits the market big and watch the price of the A4 Fly drop drastically. Probably going to be able to get an A4 fly for right under 1000.00. The speed 05 with probably go about 100 less than that. The G7 is really intended to compete with the A4. However, figure out what features you need most. Is LCD display important? BPS? Accuracy? Efficiency? Consistency? Maintenance? None of your markers you mentioned fit every one of those, not even the venerable nazi facist company smart parts. I own a speed 05 and have had my fair share of problems, however I have seen the same thing with A4's and even my DM4 I own is a paint blender sometimes. The big difference between the A4 fly and speed 05 is the fact the speed uses an LED and the Fly an LCD, however the trigger on the speed 05 uses an opto switch with a magnetic trigger return which is unrivaled by anything. This is the same trigger frame for the G7. The G7 takes a lot of the best features of both the A4 fly and speed 05 and adds a few more. The quick turn breach moves the bolt forward to alleviate the problems of balls rolling back, the sideways "noid" lowers the profile and adds some weight savings. The different valving is supposed to lower kick and help with consistency as does the new mini-reg. However, I love reading all these posts of people saying how good the G7 is going to be over (insert marker here). This thing has not even been released and people everywhere are acting like they are wearing people out at their local fields with them. Honestly, think about what is important to you. I have owned or shot just about every marker out there and I can tell you the following.

In order of best to worst
Accuracy
Autocockers
Smart Parts Shockers (Dare I say it)
Angels / DM4/ DM5 (ties)
Timmies

Consistency (Really depends on the quality of the reg)
DM4 / Shockers
Angels (They are getting better)
Timmies

Efficiency
Angels
Timmies
Shockers
DM4/5's

ROF
Angels
DM4/5's and Timmies (Tie)
Shockers (Unless ramping boards are used, the Nerve also offers a higher ROF)

The valving seems to make all the difference in the quality of most of these categories. The angel is by and large the ROF leader and for efficiency it can't be beat. As to the accuracy I have tried several different barrels and barrel kits and from my IR3 to my 05 speed accuracy is still weak, so it is still yet to be seen just how more accurate the G7 will be. A spool valve will always yield better accuracy as is the case with DYE and Smart Parts at a huge tradeoff in the efficiency department. I don't believe you could go wrong with any of the new angels, or any of the new markers currently released. They are all equal in many of their features. I would just wait a little while before jumping the gun (no pun intended) and picking one of the newest G7's because a lot of the same hype was spreading the net on the 05 speed and many people are having problems. Not bashing WDP, as DYE has their fair share of problems with the DM4/5, and don't get me started on the problems with timmies. Nevertheless, when it comes time to do maintenance or repairs, no other marker can come close to the ease of disassembly that the angels offer, they really shine in this department. Good luck on your choice.

[thedoubleop]

I'm looking for a Problem free gun with no problems (Or very few) I Want Accuracy over BPS, whats the point of dumping a hopper and hitting a person less than 10 times, My friend has a Thunder Vision Impulse and He One Balls, he doesn't dump or anything he plays mid and drops players left and right it has to be the most accurate gun I have ever seen, his gun shoots fast but whats the point? he'll go like 4 games on one hopper... One time I was with him and he had 10 paintballs and got 4 people out that game... that says a lot 31 bps doesn't mean much besides I can shoot a case in two games... I will admit though it is fun to shoot fast and it scares the crap out of newbs lol I'm just looking that will make everyone just say "WOW" I duno I'm making this post to long BTW thanks on the post MAJOR :cheers:

[PBJeff]

Accuracy won't vary a lot from marker to marker provided they're set up correctly. By set up correcly i mean good quality paint, clean, proper paint barrel match, and consistant velocity.

[angel or die]

get an angel know the software cant get any better starting with the a4 you really cant get much better other than eyes

[Elren]

You way convince you to buy one. I say shoot a hopper. I shot an A4 last year during league and I said I will have one for this year. Now I have a Force Fly and I have no problems. I use an EvoII with my Air Armageddon and its a great setup. Not only do the things look beautiful but they almost shoot better than the look.

[angel or die]

I think for the difference, you couldn't go wrong with either the DM5 or the Angel. Yes this board is a bit biased, however if you have the money to blow then by all means get the G7. If not give it a few weeks after the G7 hits the market big and watch the price of the A4 Fly drop drastically. Probably going to be able to get an A4 fly for right under 1000.00. The speed 05 with probably go about 100 less than that. The G7 is really intended to compete with the A4. However, figure out what features you need most. Is LCD display important? BPS? Accuracy? Efficiency? Consistency? Maintenance? None of your markers you mentioned fit every one of those, not even the venerable nazi facist company smart parts. I own a speed 05 and have had my fair share of problems, however I have seen the same thing with A4's and even my DM4 I own is a paint blender sometimes. The big difference between the A4 fly and speed 05 is the fact the speed uses an LED and the Fly an LCD, however the trigger on the speed 05 uses an opto switch with a magnetic trigger return which is unrivaled by anything. This is the same trigger frame for the G7. The G7 takes a lot of the best features of both the A4 fly and speed 05 and adds a few more. The quick turn breach moves the bolt forward to alleviate the problems of balls rolling back, the sideways "noid" lowers the profile and adds some weight savings. The different valving is supposed to lower kick and help with consistency as does the new mini-reg. However, I love reading all these posts of people saying how good the G7 is going to be over (insert marker here). This thing has not even been released and people everywhere are acting like they are wearing people out at their local fields with them. Honestly, think about what is important to you. I have owned or shot just about every marker out there and I can tell you the following.

In order of best to worst
Accuracy
Autocockers
Smart Parts Shockers (Dare I say it)
Angels / DM4/ DM5 (ties)
Timmies

Consistency (Really depends on the quality of the reg)
DM4 / Shockers
Angels (They are getting better)
Timmies

Efficiency
Angels
Timmies
Shockers
DM4/5's

ROF
Angels
DM4/5's and Timmies (Tie)
Shockers (Unless ramping boards are used, the Nerve also offers a higher ROF)

The valving seems to make all the difference in the quality of most of these categories. The angel is by and large the ROF leader and for efficiency it can't be beat. As to the accuracy I have tried several different barrels and barrel kits and from my IR3 to my 05 speed accuracy is still weak, so it is still yet to be seen just how more accurate the G7 will be. A spool valve will always yield better accuracy as is the case with DYE and Smart Parts at a huge tradeoff in the efficiency department. I don't believe you could go wrong with any of the new angels, or any of the new markers currently released. They are all equal in many of their features. I would just wait a little while before jumping the gun (no pun intended) and picking one of the newest G7's because a lot of the same hype was spreading the net on the 05 speed and many people are having problems. Not bashing WDP, as DYE has their fair share of problems with the DM4/5, and don't get me started on the problems with timmies. Nevertheless, when it comes time to do maintenance or repairs, no other marker can come close to the ease of disassembly that the angels offer, they really shine in this department. Good luck on your choice.


autocockers are not more accurate than any other gu its paint to barrel match and less force put on the ball :yawn:

[Solmyr]

Wow, they should rename this site www.angelfantasyforum.com

When I was buying my high end marker I first bought a karnivor. I was not that satisfied with it the number one reason being that it had way to many moving parts which means there was a lot of things that can go wrong with it. So I searched for a new high end marker. I narrowed my choice down after 2 months of research! To these marker's FLY, Alias, DM4. I was open to ALL high end marker's.

To make a long story short I picked up a DM4 and here is why I did that and here is why I didn't pick up a FLY.

So, in my eye's here is what is wrong with the Angel's.

1) Not accurate at all! Angels have a tendency to lob balls! I have used 3 Angels they all did it. A friend of mine that play's tournament ball with me used to have a Speed, when he shot a karnivor he sold his speed in a weeks time and got his self a karnivor! He complained that his speed was very inaccurate, lobed shots and had weird electro problems (would turn off by it's self)

2) Angel's use the most inconstant regulators, plus to top that off they have the WORST recharge rate on the market that can be found on a marker! I mean a stock Dragun TES regulator is better! And to top it off you need to use a low pressure air source with a Angel! I mean why don't they use a regulator where the user can use high or low pressure output tanks? Only, reason I see is to keep a high end image. As in Angels can only use "special" low pressure because they are "real" high end professional paintball marker!

3) The infamous 90° handle! And if you want comfort you need to pay EXTRA for a 45° handle!? What is that about?

4) Velocity problems! OMG, I swear to God that in all of the many many tournaments I have judged that there was always at least 2-3 Angels that us Judges had to take out of the game due to velocity problems! These people just simply couldn't get there velocity under 300fps! NOTING they did helped!

5) Ball detents, ever wonder why people that use true force feed loaders (halo, reloader B) have trouble with there Angels chopping when using a halo B or reloader B? Well it's the detents! They just are not strong enough and or good enough! Plain and simple! If a DM4, Timmy, Cyborg, Shocker, Cocker's and even a ION can use a Halo B or reloader B on the fastest settings and not chop then why cant a Angel do the same? Answer is poor designed ball detents!

6) Electronics/software issue's. Every have your Angel just turn off on you? I beat that feels really good when it turns off on you for no reason when you go bunker someone! Just go to the Angel 05 speed part of this forum. Now, the funny thing is that this is something let's call it a chronic sickness that are characteristically to ALL Angel marker's! Even the FLY!

7) Really bad and sloppy trigger's (well accept for the 05 speed, and the G7)

8) Beam break eye's. Why is it that WDP just now are starting to use beam break eye's? The first WDP marker that used beam breaks eye's was the Fly. What took them forever to put beam break eye's into a Angel?

9) Kick, plain and simple when compared to a DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION the Angel has a kick (recoil) like a freaking mule! The reason to this is the way the Angel works! The ram in a Angel has to smack some type of pin that is used from what I can see to release air to move the ram back into place or release air into the barrel to move accelerate the paintball, when you have this you have kick! Also, the Angel has 4 moving parts! 1) solenoid 2) ram 3) Pin with spring 4) Bolt Which means that it will have a kick no matter what you do to it! The DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION have NO kick at all! The reason for this the that there is only 2 moving parts, 1) Solenoid 2) bolt.

10) Battery, what's wrong with normal batteries?

11) 31 BPS! HA, funny stuff! The reason is that no marker accept for the AKA viking and the new Q-vavle can do 30 bps! The reason for that is beacuse there is no noid that fits into a marker that can move a bolt to do more then full 23 cycles per second!

In closeing DM3/4/5/Proto shocker/ION and cocker's are the most accurate marker's on the market! The reason to this is because the markers I mentioned DO NOT HAVE A KICK AT ALL when fired! Everything else that has a kick is less accurate plus ball to barrel match which is a far second.
Consistency, cocker's then matrix. My karnivor did +-1 over the crono my DM4 is doing +- 2. Angels are lucky to get +-6.
Efficeny Cocker's, Angel = timmies, talon, Dm4 and all spool vavle markers
ROF all the same.

The DM4 is the easiest to maintain out of all of the high end markers. It has eye's, board, solenoid, bolt and 2 reg's. There are 3 things that can go wrong with a matrix.
1) O-rings 2) Not enough lube 3) Reg' not lubed. And you can learn to maintain and fix the matrix over the net.

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/angel.gif

[Solmyr]

autocockers are not more accurate than any other gu its paint to barrel match and less force put on the ball :yawn:

Sorry but you are wrong. Accuracy is far more then paint to barrel match.

1) Consistency
2) Kick (less is better)
3) Good paint
4) paint to barrel match

it's in that order...

[thedoubleop]

wow big post... Anyone have anything to say to that? The fate of a Potential Angel buyer is at stack lol :repost:

[Solmyr]

Look, I am not saying for you not to get a Angel (now when I read my post, maybe I am). But before you waste $1000+ on a marker first narrow your choices down, then find out everything about the markers that you have choosen. Then go out to the field and fire them play a game or two with them. Because $1000+ is a ton of money!
Oh, and I am pretty sure someone will reply to my post.

[JDemonpbt]

Okay heres my two cents, on why you should get an Angel over any other gun.
First: WDP, the Master Tech's, and All the great people here on AOG will always be there for you if/ or when you need tech support. No other company in paintball making markers will ever provide you with this kind of support.
Second: When it comes to accuracy, efficiency, and ROF. Its all bias. There are FACTS that will support which guns are better, but not all guns are made the same way, and therefore you must sacrifice some features to gain improvements in other areas. You must find a balance that YOU personnally feel comfortable with. Example: Higher ROF will equal less air efficiency because the valve will be open faster, allowing more air to escape.
Third: You stated about how you want a accurate gun, over an faster gun. Well alot of that is not the gun, but the shooter. There are factors involved in the gun's design to help in this area, but ultimately that is all the person shooting it. I personnally do think there are other guns out there (Example autococker) that shoot more accurate then an Angel, but remember that balance? I shoot more accuate letting off short burst of fire on my Angel, increasing my odds of a hit breaking on my target, then I do with a Autococker, but with a one shot only, the autococker beats the angel. The difference here to me, is whats the odds of my one shot from my Autococker breaking, versus my burst of 15bps from my angel. My odds of a ball breaking are greater. My accuracy is equal. So my balance in the Angel is better.
As for the new G7 goes. Well only time will tell. First thing you gotta remember, is "if it can be built, it can break" no gun ever will be perfectly flawless. So who's got the better service, if it does break. To help prevent this, FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURE'S RECOMMENDATIONS Clean it, lube and oil it, and just simply put, take care of it. Don't ever just play with it, and leave it be until next time.
Last reason for an Angel over any other gun: is the Angel is the only gun, that you can upgrade your board, via reprograming it. WDP owns an patent on reprogramable boards, all other company's have to swap out boards if you want to upgrade.

[angel or die]

Look, I am not saying for you not to get a Angel (now when I read my post, maybe I am). But before you waste $1000+ on a marker first narrow your choices down, then find out everything about the markers that you have choosen. Then go out to the field and fire them play a game or two with them. Because $1000+ is a ton of money!
Oh, and I am pretty sure someone will reply to my post.

your idiot your on a angel forum plus your accuracy chart blows it's so wrong you are gonna get banned for being stupid

[tgallo]

Wow, they should rename this site www.angelfantasyforum.com

3) The infamous 90° handle! And if you want comfort you need to pay EXTRA for a 45° handle!? What is that about?

6) Electronics/software issue's. Every have your Angel just turn off on you?

10) Battery, what's wrong with normal batteries?


I find the 90° WAY more comfortable. A 45° is meant for holding a pistol at arms length.

I have NEVER had any of the 5 Angels I have owned turn off on me.

I prefer the built in battery. In fact I was worried that they would drop it for the G7.

[thedoubleop]

Ok I agree with narrowing choices down, So I'm goin to need someone with a DM5/ G7/ Fly/Shocktech Shocker to go to Orlando Paintball this thursday night LOL AND TWO. PROVE TO ME THAT THERE IS AN ACCURATE ANGEL OUT THERE EVERYONE SAYS IT PAINT TO BARREL MATCH... SHOW ME A VIDEO OF PAINT HITTING PAINT!!! I am in no way trying to bash angel, I love them and I own one, but everyone is talking about oh its just your paint to barrel match, but someone show me a video of a angel shooting paint on paint accurate :repost:

[El Pirata]

show me a video of a angel shooting paint on paint accurate :repost:Show me a video of any marker shooting paint on paint from any distance aside from point blank. DO your own research on a product. You're on an Angel forum and most of your replies will be pro Angel. You'll get pro DM5 on a DM5 forum, you'll get pro Shocker on a Shocker forum, etc... READ what people are saying about their markers and go with the one YOU decide. It's your decision which marker to buy. My money is on an Angel you decide where you want to spend your money.

[Talon]

Do you go to OP? LoL maybe let me shoot your Angel LoL :puzzled: :x:

I haven't played at OP yet, but if you want to arrange a meeting there so you can give one of the newer generation Angels a shot, I've got no problem with that. Just let me know when and I'll see if that works for me. All I ask is you provide some good paint and an A.I.R. fill or two.

[thedoubleop]

Can you make it Thurs. Night? The night session at Orlando Paintball Runs 7-12(Midnight) But You could show up at 6 if ya want but no one will be there Day session runs 12(noon)-6pm But Yea I could get you air and paint :repost:

:cheers:

[Talon]

Can you make it Thurs. Night? The night session at Orlando Paintball Runs 7-12(Midnight) But You could show up at 6 if ya want but no one will be there Day session runs 12(noon)-6pm But Yea I could get you air and paint :repost:

:cheers:

I'll try, but I can't guarantee anything just yet. I'll know more tonight.

Just to address some of Solmyr points.I'm not trying to slam you or anything Solmyr, just offering a different point of view...

1) Not accurate at all! Angels have a tendency to lob balls! I have used 3 Angels they all did it. A friend of mine that play's tournament ball with me used to have a Speed, when he shot a karnivor he sold his speed in a weeks time and got his self a karnivor! He complained that his speed was very inaccurate, lobed shots and had weird electro problems (would turn off by it's self)

That can be a problem, but is easily correctable with proper setup and maintenance. If you're trying to shoot from the back side of 10-man field, or any other field for that matter, all the way over to the other back, then you're going to have to lob with any marker you use, no question about it. If you're taking shots that span half the field or less, and is within the reasonable range of the marker than you won't have that problem.

2) Angel's use the most inconstant regulators, plus to top that off they have the WORST recharge rate on the market that can be found on a marker! I mean a stock Dragun TES regulator is better! And to top it off you need to use a low pressure air source with a Angel! I mean why don't they use a regulator where the user can use high or low pressure output tanks? Only, reason I see is to keep a high end image. As in Angels can only use "special" low pressure because they are "real" high end professional paintball marker!

There is nothing wrong with a properly maintained mini-reg. Setting up the mini-reg for a high pressure set-up is possible and even explained in various threads on this board. The reason for the mini-reg being set for a low pressure air source helps with flow rate, consistency, and efficiency. There has also been a huge push by many marker companies to use/sell markers that are low pressure.

3) The infamous 90° handle! And if you want comfort you need to pay EXTRA for a 45° handle!? What is that about?

For the positions that we tend to carry the marker in when on the field, the space frame is actually much more comfort in the eyes of many users. For a while I had my Force Fly set up with a Lady Drop and a 45/45 Angel A.I.R. and the tank extended past the back of the marker by about an 1". You can't tell me you can play with it like that with a 45° grip.

4) Velocity problems! OMG, I swear to God that in all of the many many tournaments I have judged that there was always at least 2-3 Angels that us Judges had to take out of the game due to velocity problems! These people just simply couldn't get there velocity under 300fps! NOTING they did helped!

Once again, has to do with marker setup and how it is maintained.

5) Ball detents, ever wonder why people that use true force feed loaders (halo, reloader B) have trouble with there Angels chopping when using a halo B or reloader B? Well it's the detents! They just are not strong enough and or good enough! Plain and simple! If a DM4, Timmy, Cyborg, Shocker, Cocker's and even a ION can use a Halo B or reloader B on the fastest settings and not chop then why cant a Angel do the same? Answer is poor designed ball detents!

I've had no problems with my detents and my Halo. Neither has anyone else that I tech for. True, I haven't tried a Halo on an Angel with one detent, IR3s and before.

6) Electronics/software issue's. Every have your Angel just turn off on you? I beat that feels really good when it turns off on you for no reason when you go bunker someone! Just go to the Angel 05 speed part of this forum. Now, the funny thing is that this is something let's call it a chronic sickness that are characteristically to ALL Angel marker's! Even the FLY!

Never seen an Angel just turn off that wasn't a direct result of the owner not charging the battery.

7) Really bad and sloppy trigger's (well accept for the 05 speed, and the G7)

Kind of strange to hear, usually the complaint about Angel triggers is that they are too stiff, which is also easy to take care of given you know what you are doing. And even if you don't, as mentioned in a post before, the customer service at WDP and the MTs all over the country and at each event are always more than willing to take care of any trigger issues.

8) Beam break eye's. Why is it that WDP just now are starting to use beam break eye's? The first WDP marker that used beam breaks eye's was the Fly. What took them forever to put beam break eye's into a Angel?

The break beam eyes took so long in coming because WDP was trying to use a different system, that is in theory more efficient and more reliable than eyes that would never have any issues with paint shell color and take a lot more gunk to get to the point where it could no longer detect paint, that system was COPS/SENSI. Unfortunately, the system didn't didn't have the right programming logic and started to cause some issues. That is no neither here nor there, because every top end marker in the tournament circuit, whether it's the NPPL or PSP or the Millenium Circuit, has some sort of eye system.

9) Kick, plain and simple when compared to a DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION the Angel has a kick (recoil) like a freaking mule! The reason to this is the way the Angel works! The ram in a Angel has to smack some type of pin that is used from what I can see to release air to move the ram back into place or release air into the barrel to move accelerate the paintball, when you have this you have kick! Also, the Angel has 4 moving parts! 1) solenoid 2) ram 3) Pin with spring 4) Bolt Which means that it will have a kick no matter what you do to it! The DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION have NO kick at all! The reason for this the that there is only 2 moving parts, 1) Solenoid 2) bolt.

Once again, setup and tuning is the driver here. I play for the Palm Beach Vipers, sponsored by Dye last season, and almost exclusively using DM4s. This season, our main sponsor is Proto and our X-Ball team must exclusively use M5s. Both are great markers and handle exceptionally well, but almost every one of them I've picked up has more kick than my Force Fly. The situation, as mentioned before, has to do with marker setup. I still prefer my Angel Force Fly.

10) Battery, what's wrong with normal batteries?

Nothing, except cost. A single full charge on my Angel battery lasts longer than 2-3 separate 9vs that we need to use in the Proto Matrix.

11) 31 BPS! HA, funny stuff! The reason is that no marker accept for the AKA viking and the new Q-vavle can do 30 bps! The reason for that is beacuse there is no noid that fits into a marker that can move a bolt to do more then full 23 cycles per second!

Show me your source for that statistic. If that is true, than what is the point of this statement. If it's can't happen, than does that mean you hate WDP for slightly exaggerating the markers capabilities? If so, I guess your only option is to hate every company that has ever produced a paintball marker.

In closeing DM3/4/5/Proto shocker/ION and cocker's are the most accurate marker's on the market! The reason to this is because the markers I mentioned DO NOT HAVE A KICK AT ALL when fired! Everything else that has a kick is less accurate plus ball to barrel match which is a far second.

Now that's funny!

Consistency, cocker's then matrix. My karnivor did +-1 over the crono my DM4 is doing +- 2. Angels are lucky to get +-6.

Yet again, marker setup. My Force usually gets between +/- 1, sometimes +/- 2. If not, then I usually sit down with it and do a little tuning and get her humming again.

Efficeny Cocker's, Angel = timmies, talon, Dm4 and all spool vavle markers
ROF all the same.

Also funny!

The DM4 is the easiest to maintain out of all of the high end markers. It has eye's, board, solenoid, bolt and 2 reg's. There are 3 things that can go wrong with a matrix.
1) O-rings 2) Not enough lube 3) Reg' not lubed. And you can learn to maintain and fix the matrix over the net.

A little bit more involved there. This is coming from being an Angel Tech and a certified DM4/DM5/M5 Tech and one of the few guys that people who know me come to when it comes to get their babies rolling again.

Finally, in closing...

Setup is key, so is customer service and the ability to contact those who know what to do in the event something does go wrong.

You will never see a marker with consistant and proficient ball-on-ball accuracy and the issue with that is not always the marker, the barrel match, or the loader. Considering we are shooting incredibly lightweight spheres through the air, which coincidentally have incredibly poor aerodynamic properties and don't weigh enough to not let poor venting, clogged porting, misaligned seams, poorly distributed fill, extra mass (caused by debris, oil, leaked gelatin, paint from other broken balls) or even weather and pressure affect their flight.

You will also never find a marker that never breaks, never goes down, or never requires being maintained.

And wow, I'm spent...sorry for the length guys.

[thedoubleop]

WOW LoL So about Thursday LOL :cheers:

[thedoubleop]

Yea FYI talon LoL I work thurs. and Yea I'm the TALL white guy there LoL just Ask for Opie when you go to O.P. LoL but yea I'm living a Dream now that I'm a ref (I just got hired) Its like new doors are already opening up for me... I now know a guy on Miami Effects Feeder team, Jax Warriors, and I get to play with Brimstone smoke soon! LoL but man I need a new angel

[thedoubleop]

Ok one more Post LoL My 99 LED is kinda broke you see I bent my breech knob a long time ago and Umm I tryed to bend it back and ummm... it kinda broke off and the rod that it goes on was attached to it... So I need a new breech knob and the rod that goes with it if it can be replaced... :stooges:

[thedoubleop]

For some reason I feel like this is a bad Parody of Star wars... Stay with angels or Turn to the Dark side and get a SHocker? (Que the Star wars Music) "Luke I AM YO FATHER!" :fence:

[Talon]

Regarding the breech rod/knob, get your old one out of there and contact one of the MTs and tell them you need a new one. You might have a hard time getting a hold of them now though because of Huntington Beach, so you may have to wait. Unfortunately, I don't have any extra breech rods in my bag of tricks.

I can probably make it Thursday, at least for a little while anyway. I'll be driving a Maroone Camaro and probably wearing a dye hat, sleeveless shirt, and yellow Dye C4 pants. My name is Travis, but everyone either calls me Smirk or Talon.

[thedoubleop]

Regarding the breech rod/knob, get your old one out of there and contact one of the MTs and tell them you need a new one. You might have a hard time getting a hold of them now though because of Huntington Beach, so you may have to wait. Unfortunately, I don't have any extra breech rods in my bag of tricks.

I can probably make it Thursday, at least for a little while anyway. I'll be driving a Maroone Camaro and probably wearing a dye hat, sleeveless shirt, and yellow Dye C4 pants. My name is Travis, but everyone either calls me Smirk or Talon.

Cool I'll be sporting my Orlando Paintball Ref Shirt and if I don't have my shirt yet I'll be sporting my 04 Blue Proto jersey I'm the tallest guy there Blue eyes Blondish Hair and I like long walks on beaches lol..... Akward Silence, but Yea I'll look out for you I might be in the middle of reffing (Man I just have to keep braggin, I finally have my dream job)

[pimpinsaylor]

yea angels are much better

[AngelBoi]

Wow, they should rename this site www.angelfantasyforum.com

When I was buying my high end marker I first bought a karnivor. I was not that satisfied with it the number one reason being that it had way to many moving parts which means there was a lot of things that can go wrong with it. So I searched for a new high end marker. I narrowed my choice down after 2 months of research! To these marker's FLY, Alias, DM4. I was open to ALL high end marker's.

To make a long story short I picked up a DM4 and here is why I did that and here is why I didn't pick up a FLY.

So, in my eye's here is what is wrong with the Angel's.

1) Not accurate at all! Angels have a tendency to lob balls! I have used 3 Angels they all did it. A friend of mine that play's tournament ball with me used to have a Speed, when he shot a karnivor he sold his speed in a weeks time and got his self a karnivor! He complained that his speed was very inaccurate, lobed shots and had weird electro problems (would turn off by it's self)

2) Angel's use the most inconstant regulators, plus to top that off they have the WORST recharge rate on the market that can be found on a marker! I mean a stock Dragun TES regulator is better! And to top it off you need to use a low pressure air source with a Angel! I mean why don't they use a regulator where the user can use high or low pressure output tanks? Only, reason I see is to keep a high end image. As in Angels can only use "special" low pressure because they are "real" high end professional paintball marker!

3) The infamous 90° handle! And if you want comfort you need to pay EXTRA for a 45° handle!? What is that about?

4) Velocity problems! OMG, I swear to God that in all of the many many tournaments I have judged that there was always at least 2-3 Angels that us Judges had to take out of the game due to velocity problems! These people just simply couldn't get there velocity under 300fps! NOTING they did helped!

5) Ball detents, ever wonder why people that use true force feed loaders (halo, reloader B) have trouble with there Angels chopping when using a halo B or reloader B? Well it's the detents! They just are not strong enough and or good enough! Plain and simple! If a DM4, Timmy, Cyborg, Shocker, Cocker's and even a ION can use a Halo B or reloader B on the fastest settings and not chop then why cant a Angel do the same? Answer is poor designed ball detents!

6) Electronics/software issue's. Every have your Angel just turn off on you? I beat that feels really good when it turns off on you for no reason when you go bunker someone! Just go to the Angel 05 speed part of this forum. Now, the funny thing is that this is something let's call it a chronic sickness that are characteristically to ALL Angel marker's! Even the FLY!

7) Really bad and sloppy trigger's (well accept for the 05 speed, and the G7)

8) Beam break eye's. Why is it that WDP just now are starting to use beam break eye's? The first WDP marker that used beam breaks eye's was the Fly. What took them forever to put beam break eye's into a Angel?

9) Kick, plain and simple when compared to a DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION the Angel has a kick (recoil) like a freaking mule! The reason to this is the way the Angel works! The ram in a Angel has to smack some type of pin that is used from what I can see to release air to move the ram back into place or release air into the barrel to move accelerate the paintball, when you have this you have kick! Also, the Angel has 4 moving parts! 1) solenoid 2) ram 3) Pin with spring 4) Bolt Which means that it will have a kick no matter what you do to it! The DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION have NO kick at all! The reason for this the that there is only 2 moving parts, 1) Solenoid 2) bolt.

10) Battery, what's wrong with normal batteries?

11) 31 BPS! HA, funny stuff! The reason is that no marker accept for the AKA viking and the new Q-vavle can do 30 bps! The reason for that is beacuse there is no noid that fits into a marker that can move a bolt to do more then full 23 cycles per second!

In closeing DM3/4/5/Proto shocker/ION and cocker's are the most accurate marker's on the market! The reason to this is because the markers I mentioned DO NOT HAVE A KICK AT ALL when fired! Everything else that has a kick is less accurate plus ball to barrel match which is a far second.
Consistency, cocker's then matrix. My karnivor did +-1 over the crono my DM4 is doing +- 2. Angels are lucky to get +-6.
Efficeny Cocker's, Angel = timmies, talon, Dm4 and all spool vavle markers
ROF all the same.

The DM4 is the easiest to maintain out of all of the high end markers. It has eye's, board, solenoid, bolt and 2 reg's. There are 3 things that can go wrong with a matrix.
1) O-rings 2) Not enough lube 3) Reg' not lubed. And you can learn to maintain and fix the matrix over the net.

ok, if u post this on the Angel Owners you will get flamed. And dont go around saying this place is too biased. You are freakin in the presence of MT's. Show them some respect.

You said angels are inconsistent, slow, have velocity problems...

11) 31 BPS! HA, funny stuff! The reason is that no marker accept for the AKA viking and the new Q-vavle can do 30 bps! The reason for that is beacuse there is no noid that fits into a marker that can move a bolt to do more then full 23 cycles per second!

umm..

http://www.qloader.com/movies/zak_vetter_31_bps.mov

It sounds like you have never shot an angel, saying things like "all the people" you are around with have problems. My angel has a 5 fps spread. Period.

4) Velocity problems! OMG, I swear to God that in all of the many many tournaments I have judged that there was always at least 2-3 Angels that us Judges had to take out of the game due to velocity problems! These people just simply couldn't get there velocity under 300fps! NOTING they did helped!

If youd ask me it sounds like they are using HP tanks. Angels dont just shoot over 300fps. You have control over stopping that. There are things called "velocity adjuster" and "LPR Pressure" and "Dwell"

9) Kick, plain and simple when compared to a DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION the Angel has a kick (recoil) like a freaking mule! The reason to this is the way the Angel works! The ram in a Angel has to smack some type of pin that is used from what I can see to release air to move the ram back into place or release air into the barrel to move accelerate the paintball, when you have this you have kick! Also, the Angel has 4 moving parts! 1) solenoid 2) ram 3) Pin with spring 4) Bolt Which means that it will have a kick no matter what you do to it! The DM3/4/5/Proto Shocker/ION have NO kick at all! The reason for this the that there is only 2 moving parts, 1) Solenoid 2) bolt.

Ok, first off, no paintball guns have KICK, they have barrel push up. Try shooting a .357 mag and say that angels have kick. Angels only have push up when your pressure:dwell ratio is too high. End of story. If the pressure is low, like all angels can do, then you have no "kick."

The DM4 is the easiest to maintain out of all of the high end markers. It has eye's, board, solenoid, bolt and 2 reg's. There are 3 things that can go wrong with a matrix.
1) O-rings 2) Not enough lube 3) Reg' not lubed. And you can learn to maintain and fix the matrix over the net

Ok, first off on this one, ALOT more things can go wrong than 3 on a matrix. LOL, "only three things can go wrong"....Unfortnately, paintball guns cant be perfectly perfect. Thats why theres angels, taking you as close as possible to perfect. How about...hmm...the solenoid blows? how about the ram slips? How about the valve stem gets scratched? idiot...

5) Ball detents, ever wonder why people that use true force feed loaders (halo, reloader B) have trouble with there Angels chopping when using a halo B or reloader B? Well it's the detents! They just are not strong enough and or good enough! Plain and simple! If a DM4, Timmy, Cyborg, Shocker, Cocker's and even a ION can use a Halo B or reloader B on the fastest settings and not chop then why cant a Angel do the same? Answer is poor designed ball detents!

umm..ok. Ever heard of "spring streching"? It fixed everything for a few months.

1) Not accurate at all! Angels have a tendency to lob balls! I have used 3 Angels they all did it. A friend of mine that play's tournament ball with me used to have a Speed, when he shot a karnivor he sold his speed in a weeks time and got his self a karnivor! He complained that his speed was very inaccurate, lobed shots and had weird electro problems (would turn off by it's self)

Its against the laws of physics for angels to lob balls and timmys to not. The ball is struck with the same force, with air pushing it out of the barrel...one gun wont make a ball lob more than another.
Angels only turn off when you leave them on and dont touch them for...20 minutes i think? It could be shorter...if it turned of, 1 word- BATTERY.

7) Really bad and sloppy trigger's (well accept for the 05 speed, and the G7)

The triggers are designed to have the least resistance possible, and if you dont happen to like the feel of a light trigger, go away, and dont shoot one.

2) Angel's use the most inconstant regulators, plus to top that off they have the WORST recharge rate on the market that can be found on a marker! I mean a stock Dragun TES regulator is better! And to top it off you need to use a low pressure air source with a Angel! I mean why don't they use a regulator where the user can use high or low pressure output tanks? Only, reason I see is to keep a high end image. As in Angels can only use "special" low pressure because they are "real" high end professional paintball marker!

^^^ this is false as well. The reason they reccomend using a low pressure tank is because the reg will wear out faster with HP. Besides, if you use LP you get much better efficiency. I get about 1100 on a 45/45.


In closeing DM3/4/5/Proto shocker/ION and cocker's are the most accurate marker's on the market! The reason to this is because the markers I mentioned DO NOT HAVE A KICK AT ALL when fired! Everything else that has a kick is less accurate plus ball to barrel match which is a far second.
Consistency, cocker's then matrix. My karnivor did +-1 over the crono my DM4 is doing +- 2. Angels are lucky to get +-6.
Efficeny Cocker's, Angel = timmies, talon, Dm4 and all spool vavle markers
ROF all the same.

K first off on this one, my angel is, as i stated before, getting a 5 spread (-+2 or 3) It can do better on a goo day.
Also like i stated before, all guns will kick if the setup is messed up.
And, all guns will be accurate if the paint to barrel match is good. The bolt strike technique has minimal effect.

The DM4 is the easiest to maintain out of all of the high end markers. It has eye's, board, solenoid, bolt and 2 reg's. There are 3 things that can go wrong with a matrix.
1) O-rings 2) Not enough lube 3) Reg' not lubed. And you can learn to maintain and fix the matrix over the net.

Ok, i can get alot off of this one too. I wanna come back to this paragaraph.

My setup, with the tank, has 3 stages of regulators. First the tank reg, then the minireg, then the LPR. So, your just making youself look like an idiot saying that "DUDE, TIMMY'S HAVE 2 REGS!!!"

Oh ya, and saying you can figure out how to fix a matrix on the net.... angels can be too.

www.wdp.tv

and not to mention all of the Master Techs here at your fingertips...AOG rules over all the other forums!

and on a higher humorous end note,
To make a long story short...
too late

Stop flaming angels and go over to the dye forums.

pwned.

[Talon]

Oh ya, and saying you can figure out how to fix a matrix on the net.... angels can be too.

www.wdp.tv

Not to mention all of the resources available to us here at AOG...Master Techs available to answer questions at almost any time of day, all the downloadable manuals, etc.

[AngelBoi]

Not to mention all of the resources available to us here at AOG...Master Techs available to answer questions at almost any time of day, all the downloadable manuals, etc.

absolutely!

[TheAngel_Guy]

dude, that guy was such an @$$. nice job of pwnage!

[AngelBoi]

that took about 15 minutes to write...lol

do u think he'll come back in defense?

p.s. thanks angel guy

[thedoubleop]

Man and to think I almost considered a Shocker... Having an Angel is like a Life style,


A4L

[Emmit]

wow...totally missed this.

AOG does not allow comparison threads. Ask all you want about any Angel marker, but don't compare them.