Jam Bolt in fly

[Snooky]

With the new jam bolt coming out was wondering if anyone with a fly had a chance to test the new one or atleast try the old one in a fly.

I have big problems with halo/reloader on my fly and looking at some final options before I decide whether or not to keep it for the season.

Anyone have any opinions on the bolt? please dont comment here about the halo/reloader issue... if you wish to do so post in the loader forum under the offical halo b thread.

Thanks

[Snooky]

Ordered one tonite, will post results when I recieve it and field test it.

[torturedklown]

I would stick with the stock bolt. I know you don't wanna hear it, but try the gun with stock bolt and egg and see the difference. I had HUGE problems w/ halo making my gun chop. That being said, if you want to use a Halo then good luck to ya, let us know how it works out for ya w/ the JAM bolt.

[corrupt123]

i have a JAM bolt, it never worked for some reason. just didnt cycle properly... dunno why, im thinking maybe the spring was compressing slightly as the hammer moved forward and back? dunno.

but it wont help with your reloader problem. angels dont like cheep paint, and the only solve to that is probably the netwon kit.

[trickytrix]

the fly and a halo/reloader are a perfect combo, with good size/quality paint. For example - cheap, small bore field blaze and reloader on fly = blender. I haven't had any troubles with my reloader on max speed with Zap Chronic, or Marballizer, or pretty much any decent paint that's bigger than .686 bore

[Snooky]

You can go here if you really wanna see the countless things I have tried to get my fly to work with a halo/reloader and see that I'm basically cursed: http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=34793

Anyway when you get to the stage where I am at with my fly you will try anything. Even if this doesn't resolve my issue then still can stick it in the backup LCD and have some kind of anti chop system.

I don't have a choice with the tournaments we goto as to which paint we shoot. This being the case I need a gun/loader combo that will work with all grades and quality of paint and so far the fly with the halo isn't it.

[trickytrix]

Well, I feel for ya', cause chopping sucks - but the fact is that the marker isn't your problem, the loader is. The HALO changed the game. I remember when they first came out, and I could finally walk the trigger on my matrix without creating a cheese factory, but the reality is that the HALO just puts too much force on the ball stack, and cheap paint can't cut it. Trust me, everyone on my team shoots a different marker, and they all chop at some point. If you don't want to risk a chop and are using less than average paint, my suggestion is to use a marker with eyes, and a revvy. Good luck!

[torturedklown]

<QUOTE>

trickytrix 2/20/05

"the fly and a halo/reloader are a perfect combo, with good size/quality paint. For example - cheap, small bore field blaze and reloader on fly = blender. I haven't had any troubles with my reloader on max speed with Zap Chronic, or Marballizer, or pretty much any decent paint that's bigger than .686 bore"
<END QUOTE>

The problem he's having is 99% loader regardless of paint. The Halo puts so much force on the stack of balls that it actually flattens out the ball in the breech just a hair, enough for the next ball to come in front of the bolt just enough to chop it. Maybe you were blessed with good luck with your halo/ reloader b Trix, I personally drop kicked mine across a field after getting destroyed cuz the GD thing crapped out on me and went with a Z board egg. (this was my 3rd Halo) Also, blaze works just fine in the fly, most of the events my team attends are Draxxus paint only, and I never had an issue with the paint. I dunno, maybe you got a bad batch or one of 100 different things happened, but I bet that if Snooky takes his gun as is and runs a Zboard egg on it he will have WAY better luck. (try me and see Snooky) :-)


just my $.02

[Owned13]

i use blaze w/ my reloader b all the time w/ my fly and i've gotten up to 26 bps and no chops, hollywoodsports park best field paint is blaze, sad but none the less havent had any problems with my reloader b

[trickytrix]

There are lots of factors involved with this problem - marker setup, LPR, dwell, blah blah - but the point remains, the problem is the HALO - that said, if you don't wanna chop as much, get a different loader. If you can get the HALO to work, you've got a potential higher ROF. Good Luck

[Snooky]

I can run a egg with my fly with zero problems. Always have.

It's kind of like a crusade now for me to get my halo working with it. I'm willing to give the jam bolt a whirl and maybe, just maybe it will stop the problems. If not, like I said I have a lcd that doesnt have eyes so worse thing that happens is it goes in there.

I haven't researched it for other markers but the dm5 and dm4 we have on my team have no problems at all with using reloaders/halos. It's only when we throw a halo on an angel that we begin to have problems be it a fly/speed/lcd. The alias we have on the team I see the kid has problems with but I dont think its due to a halo. Bad luck or marker... im starting to wonder.

[trickytrix]

Well, the problem with the HALO and the angel is rollback, and the new JAM RAS bolt is supposed to eliminate that from happening, so hopefully that will solve your problem. The angel is the only marker I've ever encountered that has rollback by design (not intentional I'm sure). We have to keep in mind that Angel's engineering has existed longer than the HALO, so I blame this problem 100% on the power of the HALO, but I'm not complaining, because I love that thing :) Personally my fly with reloader B at fastest setting only chops when the paint bore is less than .684, regardless of paint quality. I hope the new bolt works for you, and you can love your fly again :)

[torturedklown]

Snooky,

a word of advice, we sell JAM bolts for other guns, if you are going to try it, make sure you break in the bolt's spring. Put the gun in a sick rebound mode and just shoot it with a swab or stick squeegie in the breech. after about 4000 shots it should be soft enough to run paint. Again, post us your results.

Good luck.
Pie

[Snooky]

Does the swab just have to be sitting there in the barrel or should there be pressure against it? Like aka put swab up agaisnt wall with it in barrel and jack up tr to 22 and let her rip? Or after thinking about it, you are supposed to put like a barrel swab actually right into the breech huh? Please just clarify this for me.

And I will definetly post my findings when I get this bolt. Day I get it plan to goto my local shop and break it in and then grab a bag of 500 and let it rip.

Trickytrix - Thanks for the help and appreciate the support.

[smasher41]

Snooky,

a word of advice, we sell JAM bolts for other guns, if you are going to try it, make sure you break in the bolt's spring. Put the gun in a sick rebound mode and just shoot it with a swab or stick squeegie in the breech. after about 4000 shots it should be soft enough to run paint. Again, post us your results.

Good luck.
Pie

Not only do you want to break in the spring, but also i reccomend cycling it after normally without blocking the bolt, this give the chance for the bolt to wear to the breach, if it is too thick it COULD drag the bolt a bit.
ive only seen it happen with timmies thusfar, but it is possible.

[torturedklown]

the swab should block the breech enough to compress the spring when it cycles.... almost as if you put it down the feedneck. I think we put them down the barrel and ptu a barrel sock on, but in the feedneck might work to. You just want to get it to compress everytime it's fired while breaking the bolt in.

[Snooky]

How many cycles would you suggest normal and how many would you suggest with compressing?

[torturedklown]

anywhere from 4000- 10000.... we usually kill 2 68/4500 tanks in the process

[KillerFlah]

anywhere from 4000- 10000.... we usually kill 2 68/4500 tanks in the process

When the break in period is over, would the jambolt stop on a half-fed paintball?

[torturedklown]

when the bolt is broken in you'll be able to put you pinky in front of it without pain. :-)
Ideally the bolt SHOULD stop on a ball. (I still advise staying with the stock bolt however)

[KillerFlah]

(I still advise staying with the stock bolt however)

I don't get it? You're saying JamBolt is a waste of $50? I'm willing to try anything...

My A4 Fly still couldn't work with my riotfeed and reloader B. I could only play with the V35 and Egg. I really wish I can rip (without chopping) using my riotfeed cause it's wicked fast - I mean fast!

[Snooky]

I recieved the bolt today in the mail. I ordered it saturday the 19th and says they shipped it out tuesday so took 2 days for shipping, I was impressed by this.

I had about 1.5k worth of air in my 68/45 so I shot that with my barrel swab with it touching the face of the bolt to start the break in period. Near the end I tried sticking my finger in there and I definetly think it will pinch balls when all the way broken in. There was some pressure but not much on my finger when shot.

I noticed significantly less of the second ball was pretruding into the breech then with the stock bolt so I'm hopefull that tommorow when I get to test this out that it will be a successful test and I will once again be happy with my fly.

Plan is tommorow to goto paintball shop and fire 2 68/45's with the bolt. First 1 completly to break in spring on bolt, the second fill's first half still for the spring and then last half to break it into the breech.

Anyway first impressions good.

[KillerFlah]

I could not get this jambolt off my mind -- so after initially not having a good impression of the guy I spoke with at Jam Enterprises, I called the second time and finally got some info. I ordered one and should get to me on Saturday. Can't wait to test. Hope this really helps in the chopping problem.

[torturedklown]

I don't get it? You're saying JamBolt is a waste of $50? I'm willing to try anything...

My A4 Fly still couldn't work with my riotfeed and reloader B. I could only play with the V35 and Egg. I really wish I can rip (without chopping) using my riotfeed cause it's wicked fast - I mean fast!


Nope, not saying it's a waste at all. The JAM bolt is a good piece of equipment, but it's unnecessary IMO. The stock bolt was engineered for max. performance.

What I'm saying is this... you want to be able to use your HALO on your Angel (understandable), but the halo is most likely compressing the ball in the breech and allowing the 2nd to hang in front of the bolt. (we've seen this happen alot) SO, the solution to this (if this is what's happening even after Snooky breaks in the bolt) is to run an egg. With a Z-board and a paddle mod, I just got mine to drop test at 21.1 BPS, and my fly registered it at 23bps w/ paint. No offense, but nobody (myself included) shoots anywhere near as fast as they think they do, if you lose 5-6 bps, who cares????? I bet normally in the course of a game you prolly won't pass 17-18 at the fastest. (or you carry 14 pods on the field with you) All I'm saying is that speed isn't everything, if you're equipment won't work together, concentrate on your game... make it so tight that it doesn't matter how fast you shoot. Just an example, I saw a guy in a tourney this past sunday... his gun went down and he had back to backs... the kid waited, and bunkered 3 guys with his backup... A SNIPER 2!!!!!!!

For those of you that have HALO's running on the fly, congrats, and no offense. My rec. still stands though, egg and Z board with stock bolt.

Just my $.02 for what it's worth.

Either way, good luck

[KillerFlah]

What I'm saying is this... you want to be able to use your HALO on your Angel (understandable), but the halo is most likely compressing the ball in the breech and allowing the 2nd to hang in front of the bolt. (we've seen this happen alot) SO, the solution to this (if this is what's happening even after Snooky breaks in the bolt) is to run an egg. With a Z-board and a paddle mod, I just got mine to drop test at 21.1 BPS, and my fly registered it at 23bps w/ paint. No offense, but nobody (myself included) shoots anywhere near as fast as they think they do, if you lose 5-6 bps, who cares????? I bet normally in the course of a game you prolly won't pass 17-18 at the fastest. (or you carry 14 pods on the field with you) All I'm saying is that speed isn't everything, if you're equipment won't work together, concentrate on your game... make it so tight that it doesn't matter how fast you shoot. Just an example, I saw a guy in a tourney this past sunday... his gun went down and he had back to backs... the kid waited, and bunkered 3 guys with his backup... A SNIPER 2!!!!!!!

For those of you that have HALO's running on the fly, congrats, and no offense. My rec. still stands though, egg and Z board with stock bolt.

Just my $.02 for what it's worth.

Either way, good luck

Perfectly understood but IMO, why would you settle and stop looking for options when Halos are supposed to be built for guns like angels...I simply cannot take it sitting down knowing MY A4 Fly can fire so much faster than it currenty can with my setup. What's $50 when I have shelled more than $1500 for this gun (of course including barrel kits, halos and MT Trigger)?

[torturedklown]

Ok man, like I said good luck. If you become one of those few people that have zero problems with the HALO then congrats.

As for "settling", I ask you this... would you rather your gun be capable of 1000 bps, but it can't go 2 HALO's full of paint without chopping and fouling the eyes, and making soup, and all the other nasty things a chop does... OR be able to shoot 18-21 consistantly without the worries or problems.

Again, to each his own, best of luck to you. :-)
Just to make sure, no hard feelings either way(I know that internet posts tend to lack the necessary context of conversation) :-)

[KillerFlah]

I think the new RAS jambolt will kick ass. I thought of something: if the rollback issue is not a major cause for chopping, why would WDP incorporate this in their new G7 product?

[torturedklown]

I think the new RAS jambolt will kick ass. I thought of something: if the rollback issue is not a major cause for chopping, why would WDP incorporate this in their new G7 product?


You can cut down the rollback issue by adjusting your ram. in the G7 the bolt moves forward enough that the breech doesn't open anymore... hin hint ;-)

[Trigga Nometry]

I thought of something: if the rollback issue is not a major cause for chopping, why would WDP incorporate this in their new G7 product?I was waiting for someone to point that out :evilgrin: .

[KillerFlah]

You can cut down the rollback issue by adjusting your ram. in the G7 the bolt moves forward enough that the breech doesn't open anymore... hin hint ;-)

Tried that. You can only adjust it so much until you can no longer open the breech. And even up to that point, the ball still rolls back a lot. Try it. Look into the breech after you drop a ball. And compare that to the (before and after) images found in this same thread...

Try this yourself. I actually was not really convinced of buying until I did the ball drop and looked at how far it rolls back. And dropped a second ball and pushed it hard - I could see a 1/4 of the second ball into the breech...

[Snooky]

Ok so as I said I was gonna try the bolt out today, here are my results.

I put 1750 shots through the fly to break in the spring and probally about 500 yesterday(didn't keep track). I then shot about 200 shots to break it into the breech. Package said 1000 shots so I thought I would do overkill as klown suggested. By the end I could walk the trigger on my finger and the bolt wasn't hurting my finger. So after doing that figured the bolt was broken in.

So I bought a bag of midnight, new shells as they were 2 colored, as I have had the most problems with the grade of paint around it's price. The v35 halo was on speed 3 or 4*can't remeber* and had my 3.6 on just tr2. So I first just tried single shots... 25 or so single shots and no problems, which I never had problems with single shots before so I was still somewhat unsure. So then I decided I would try to unload the rest of the hopper. Went through the whole hopper and had the tinyest bit of paint*way less then even a cu-tip would absorb* come out but I then realized that it was infact white paint and the fill I was shooting was blue. It was paint from inside the gun from the last tourney where I made a huge mess with the halo. So I go fill up another hopper of paint... no problems, no chops, nothing but sweetness. So I go fill up another hopper... once again no problems what-so-ever. So I go get the rest of the bag of paint and shoot that... still no problems.

*moments of aww*

So basically the jam bolt so far has lived up to what it said it would do... stop the chops. I did not get a chance to chrono the gun so I can't comment on the 30fps increase however that wasn't the selling point for me. Next time I goto a field I'll test that out just for reviewing purposes.

So far the $45 dollars is well spent. After I get to take it out for a whole day and it keeps up all day then I will completly back the product but I don't wanna go too wild till I get to shoot like 2k through it.

The bolt is kinda a pain to get in and out but its doable. That really was the only downfall to it.

[torturedklown]

Tried that. You can only adjust it so much until you can no longer open the breech. And even up to that point, the ball still rolls back a lot. Try it. Look into the breech after you drop a ball. And compare that to the (before and after) images found in this same thread...

Try this yourself. I actually was not really convinced of buying until I did the ball drop and looked at how far it rolls back. And dropped a second ball and pushed it hard - I could see a 1/4 of the second ball into the breech...


I will tell you how mine is set up, and try it for yourself. I moved my ram as far forward as it would go (until it leaked) then backed it off just enough to stop the leak. You can't open the breech, but MY GOD it's almost impossible to break paint. As for the "unable to open the breech" thing... how do shocker,DM4,DM5and proto guys clean their breaks. (buy a stick squeegie)

All I'm saying is that it turned my fly into a mean machine, good luck with yours.

btw, congrats snooky, glad it worked for you

[KillerFlah]

[QUOTE=Snooky]Ok so as I said I was gonna try the bolt out today, here are my results.
QUOTE]

This is what I want to hear.

[trickytrix]

Hey Snooky - did you have to adjust your ram to get the new bolt to fit?

[Snooky]

Tricky - I had to adjust it just a bit backwards because it was being a pain. Wasn't much but was just a tiny bit. Basically it made it so that the balls had no play between bolt and detent with the way its adjusted at the moment.

[trickytrix]

I figured I'd start by doing just that, moving it a little backwards to see how the bolt looks in the breech, then perhaps fine tuning. I could see potential head-aches re-setting the ram from the start with this bolt - probably should always start with the stock bolt if resetting from scratch, then fine tune for the RAS... just my thoughts

[KillerFlah]

Where can I buy one other than jambolts.com web site? My bro needs one. Jambolts has them backordered for a week...

[DustSilverAngel]

killerflah..
Check out the jam bolt site....
Colorado Residents - PLEASE contact your local stores to purchase JAM bolts!
maybe they will have them instock??

[KillerFlah]

OK. Got mine today. I shot 1000+ with a barrel swab in the feedneck so I think it's a bit broken in. It was pretty cool to actually stick my finger in there and rapid fire and not hurt at all...try that with the stock bolt!

I also half-fed a MIDNIGHT paintball (same colored shell so this is a 2004 batch, not 2005) which is about 3 weeks old and left in the open ever since...it didn't chop. I fired rapidly and maybe hit the ball at least 15 times and no chops. I thought it was gonna break but not even a pinch mark on the paintball.

So far, I'm happy. I still yet to try it in the field this weekend.

[KillerFlah]

PICS of paintballs when using the old bolt.

First PIC view from the FEEDNECK: See how far back it goes...

Second PIC view from the barrel opening: look at the second ball on top of the first...see how much it protrudes...

[KillerFlah]

Here are pics using the new JAMBOLT.

PIC 1: View from the feedneck: Paintball is snug, no play, no rollback.

PIC 2: Ball on top does not overlap with the first ball in the breech.

[KillerFlah]

killerflah..
Check out the jam bolt site....
Colorado Residents - PLEASE contact your local stores to purchase JAM bolts!
maybe they will have them instock??

Thanks for the info. I'm looking to buy a second one for my brother.

[KillerFlah]

Hey Snooky - did you have to adjust your ram to get the new bolt to fit?

I had to do the same. The bolt would not fit without adjusting. I actually had to do maybe 1.5 turns back.

[Snooky]

Awesome pictures killerflah, that looks worse then what mine was by a little bit but still it shows what it's fixing. Hopefully can take the fly out this weekend and field test the bolt with about a case of paint, if I do infact go then I'll post my results for breaking and if I get a chance velocity.

[fife]

I was waiting for someone to point that out :evilgrin: .

"rollback" isn't the primary issue, but the problem is somewhat related. It's the position of the second ball in the stack that results from the bolt being too far back. That second ball in the stack then gets "clipped" from the bolt firing the first ball. The pics shown from the front of the marker show this.

[KillerFlah]

OK.

[$J-MAL$]

a re-loader works well on my force fly never chopped EVER and i have like 9000 shots on the gun

[KillerFlah]

Just ran through 8 hopper full of midnight paintballs (using both halo V35 and riotfeed). Both worked flawlessly, zero chops. I almost forgot the feeling....

I always had chops with the riotfeed, guaranteed, almost every 10 shots, I get one...

Jambolt works wonders for me...makes me actually enjoy the a4 fly for a change...

[Snooky]

Still haven't been able to field test this as it decided to snow once again in wisconsin however still looking to shoot the little bit of crap paint I have left over. Might do that today or sometime in the next few days.

Killerflah - Really good to hear and hope I can get the same results.

[yzrm1]

snooky

Let us know how it works out for you!

[Snooky]

I certainly will, possibility of going to an indoor this sunday but still nothing in stone... really looking forward to putting more paint through this.

[Snooky]

Will be playing this sunday at an indoor field. Will post results after the day as far as how choping issues went. Will try to remeber to do velocity test but not sure if I will get to it.

[yzrm1]

Will be playing this sunday at an indoor field. Will post results after the day as far as how choping issues went. Will try to remeber to do velocity test but not sure if I will get to it.

That would be great because I'm really on the fence about the bolt, I should stop being a punk and just buy one.

[Snooky]

Well this weekend wasn't too good for the fly and me.

Basically the first 500 balls were good through it and then slowly but surely started to see paint coming from breech once again. Eventually this lead to breech breaks which lead to eyes being too clogged with paint which lead to turn eyes off and become a blender. We got there at about 10:30am... I quit playing at around 3pm simply because the fly went back to its old self.

I was using strong shelled winter inferno and even with the thick shell the jam bolt was still not "stoping the chops".

Nothing much more to report then the bolt fell very short of my expectations. It seemed to slow down the blender status but didn't come close to stoping it.

[Sparco]

Sorry to hear of your troubles with the bolt, snooky. My experience with the bolt was positive, except for the occasional ball that wouldn't make it out of any marker.

For those curious, Dale @ 68caliber.com was nice enough to publish my review:

http://www.68caliber.com/features/reviews/story04810.php

[KillerFlah]

Well this weekend wasn't too good for the fly and me.

Basically the first 500 balls were good through it and then slowly but surely started to see paint coming from breech once again. Eventually this lead to breech breaks which lead to eyes being too clogged with paint which lead to turn eyes off and become a blender. We got there at about 10:30am... I quit playing at around 3pm simply because the fly went back to its old self.

I was using strong shelled winter inferno and even with the thick shell the jam bolt was still not "stoping the chops".

Nothing much more to report then the bolt fell very short of my expectations. It seemed to slow down the blender status but didn't come close to stoping it.

Snooky,
Sorry to hear. Here's my settings though if you want to give the bolt another try. Maybe you have read my posts months before where I always had chops no matter what I would do -- and this jambolt cured it all.

Dwell: 9/10 tried both
LPR: 50
Crossfire Preset AIR: 400
TR: 2

[KillerFlah]

Update: I played and used Stinger Paint (the only paint avialable in the indoor field). This paint was so brittle, it broke when you droptest from 3-4 feet. I consumed about 4 pods and ZERO CHOPS or breaks.

I did notice though a couple of things: WITHOUT paint, the gun fires like having the stock bolt. WITH paint, I experience barrel raise. Didn't notice this the first time I played - probably so eager to test the jambolt I didn't care if there was kick or barrel raise...I also don't know if I experienced this barrel raise before with the stock bolt.

Anyway, I think it's definitely worth $50 if it fixes your chops.

[Trigga Nometry]

I hold three patents myself and I can tell you that from being involved in patent litigation before, that it really doesn't matter if someone has a patent or was granted a patent by the US. It's all about timing, when someone first tried something and documented it (doesn't need to be patented). In other words, what you show as discovery of records is the "proof".

It is not nearly as simple as just holding a patent.

[KillerFlah]

I'm surprised the response from Jam Enterprises was not edited or removed by moderators especially that it is a direct rebuttal of Ken's post....Usually, I get edited out when I post something that go against posts from MT...

This is good! Go JAM ENTERPRISES!

[Trigga Nometry]

IMHO - Ken's post should have been a PM to jam and not a post. But hey, what do I know. The MT's are human just like we are.

[Winnebago]

i love my ras jam bolt! thanks Richard and Trigga! :)

[Trigga Nometry]

i love my ras jam bolt! thanks Richard and Trigga! :)If the JAM BOLT makes you like your Angel even more, where's the harm, right?

[KEN CRANE]

IMHO - Ken's post should have been a PM to jam and not a post. But hey, what do I know. The MT's are human just like we are.


i did delete it as it was ment to be a pm to a member that was asking about making a similar bolt.i tried to call you at jam but the phone just rang. didnt mean to rattle any cages. tina seems very attached to this patent tho.

[KEN CRANE]

i did delete it as it was ment to be a pm to a member that was asking about making a similar bolt.i tried to call you at jam but the phone just rang. didnt mean to rattle any cages. tina seems very attached to this patent tho.

we spoke problem fixed.my mistake for not paying attention to where my posts end up.

trig, i need you to call me i have something i need you to try for next week. 508-400-2007

[jam enterprises]

we spoke problem fixed.my mistake for not paying attention to where my posts end up.

trig, i need you to call me i have something i need you to try for next week. 508-400-2007

all is good.
just a misunderstanding.