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View Full Version : FSDO, shootdown probs with the right settings? try this


Scott7d
01-22-2005, 03:16 PM
I posted this on PBN, ill post here too just in case, it helped me out:
UPDATE: i think i have some useful information for you people that have correct settings, and still have FSDO or shoot down, its kinda common sense, and some people are all ready doing it, but heres what i did.

My settings were lpr-45psi, Dwell-9, inline-whatever to shoot 290fps.
I set my gun up with these settings and had slight FSDO and HORRIBLE shoot down, but was shooting 290. I didnt have a tool kit handy check LPR without the newton cap, so heres what i did.

left dwell and inline alone, I removed the newton cap, along with 2 additional shims,put the standard front cap on and chrono'd. I was shooting like 345fps. I did this back and forth, adding/removing shims till I get a desired fps. Finally i was able to get about 298-310fps. This meant my lpr was alittle more than 45psi, because my dwell, and inline were in the same settings, as when the newton cap was on. Hope that makes sense.

I figured this was close enough, so i just tuned the inline down to shoot consistant 290's. So, my lpr was a tad higher than 45 like i wanted, but just turned the inline down to compinsate.

Then came the moment of truth, time to shoot. I turned gun off, regassed, to make sure i had no FSDO, and i didnt, i was pleased.

Then put my vic board and fastest settings and fired away.
...............Unbelievable!!! 24bps on TR 4, NO drop off and it was spitting them out like crazy. people in the shop were like "WTF!!11eleven!1".

So, if you have no tool kit and have FSDO and drop off here are the steps.

1. Put the settings you want with the whole kit on. Chrono to whatever you want with neccasary steps, reguardless of FSDO and shootdown.

2. Remove your newton cap, and also take 2-3 shims out with it, and replace the cap, with your stock cap.

3. this whole process leave dwell and inline alone, then chrono, if you are shooting about the same as you were before after taking some shims out, then you know the LPR is going to be the same or close to it, as before with the newton cap on. If you get close to a desired FPS, you can just leave the LPR alone and do the rest of the adjusting with the inline.

If anyone doesnt understand some of these steps just let me know, pretty much all you are doing is running the kit without the adjuster cap, and these steps will make sure your LPR is where it needs to be with the evolve goodies, or close to it, without having the guage that comes with an angel tool kit.

this process did wonders for me, the only thing im still not satisfied with is the kick, but i dont care anymore. Everything else it working great, and i have the fastest gun on the team.

__________________

P8ntSlinger44
01-22-2005, 03:37 PM
Try the LPR in the low 50psi range witht he newton adjuster cap. Mine works well at anything above 48psi.

FYI, the pressure that the guage says whenthe LPR asjuster cap is on is NOT what the LPR is when the PR asjuter cap is not on, so how do you knwo the LPR is at 45 psi without a toolkit?

Scott7d
01-22-2005, 08:26 PM
I know it wont be the same with out the cap, but, if you have your dwell and inline reg at the same settings with the cap on, lpr at 50psi, and say you are shooting 290fps, you take the cap off, and remove enough shims to shoot 290fps again, if you leave your dwell and inline alone, then you know your LPR is going to be close to what it was, when the cap was still on.

wolfram075
01-24-2005, 01:36 AM
thats kidna the ghetto way to do things but if it works LOL

Scott7d
01-24-2005, 02:07 AM
Wouldnt really call it ghetto since you dont have to "mod" anything, but its working for me, but ill still get ahold of a WDP tool kit and tune things exactly where they should be without having the adjuster on there. It was real hard to find the right amount of shims with the adjuster on, to where it wouldnt drop down. then some days it would, and some it wouldnt. Im thinking maybe when I gassed my gun up, some of the times, something didnt seat correctly in the cap. Whoooo knows.....

chillum
01-26-2005, 02:28 PM
I've just been setting up my Evolve valve and had all the settings sorted out and was getting good results on the first ball, but shootdown when putting a string of paint out.

After *much* pissing about and reading of this site, I decided to take out all my shims and the spring+pokey thing out of the evolve LPR (which gives me about 52psi - I know this coz I previously had the gun set up for low pressure use).

Now comes the weird bit- it works fine now (haven't fully tested it yet but it looks like I've solved the shootdown). What bugs me is that with the evolve lpr bits in and setting the lpr to 50 ish psi with it (after the initial stock 100 psi setting of course) it had shootdown, but with 52 psi and no extra bits it was working fine.

I don't pretend to understand how the lpr works, but it seems that the grooved spinning top insert must slow down the recharge rate. If you're having problems with shootdown, set up your stock LPR with no shims and if you get a low pressure - go with it and forget the evolve inserts.

Trigga Nometry
01-26-2005, 02:34 PM
Now comes the weird bit- it works fine now (haven't fully tested it yet but it looks like I've solved the shootdown). What bugs me is that with the evolve lpr bits in and setting the lpr to 50 ish psi with it (after the initial stock 100 psi setting of course) it had shootdown, but with 52 psi and no extra bits it was working fine.

I don't pretend to understand how the lpr works, but it seems that the grooved spinning top insert must slow down the recharge rate. If you're having problems with shootdown, set up your stock LPR with no shims and if you get a low pressure - go with it and forget the evolve inserts.That seems to be the problem for some of the Evolve users. I am either going to make or modify my LPR cone piece (the part that you are refering to) to try and improve the flow rate. Go to THIS THREAD (http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=34961) and I think you'll find some good information there and also some theories on why the shootdown might be happening.

Scott7d
01-26-2005, 05:15 PM
I don't pretend to understand how the lpr works, but it seems that the grooved spinning top insert must slow down the recharge rate. If you're having problems with shootdown, set up your stock LPR with no shims and if you get a low pressure - go with it and forget the evolve inserts.

Thats what i tried to do, but in that pressure range,with adding/removing one shim, i can either get 45psi, which is a tad too low, or 60psi, and i shouldnt have to run things that high, but it worked GREAT.

For no reason at all, today i tried things with the cap back on. Like i said in the other thread, all my shims brought it to 90psi, from there I adjusted to 50psi, with a dwell of 10.

Out of no where, it worked fine, no FSDO, and I dont think I have any shootdown, at least not noticable. I really would like to run the kit with out the cap and be at 50psi on the dot.

Scott7d
01-29-2005, 05:31 PM
heres another little update.
Was at the shop messing with some settings. I couldnt have my dwell lower than 10, and be able to chrono to speed, which was disapointing. Messed around with different LPR's, dwells, find a decent, happy medium, when my valve oring blew off.

I was furious, I had just changed it. I cant afford to have this happen in a tournament. So I decided to put in the stock valve volumizer set up. I kept the delrin hammer in, and every thing seemed to work fine. Even the evolve adjuster is working fine. Current settings are:

LPR-55psi (was reliefed I had no FSDO or shootdown with the evolve adjuster on)
Dwell-9 (also a relief)
Inline-whatever to shoot 290's

I was happy that with the stock volumizer and valve, I could run the LPR that low, the dwell that low, and still keep in the delrin hammer with no FSDO, or shootdown problems.

What I am kind of mad about?
I pretty much paid 155 bucks for a delrin hammer and optional LPR adjuster, since Im not using the valve set up.

I know its my choice not to use the valve, but I dont have much of a margin to choose from with orings snapping. Like I said, Im reliefed the gun is working 100%, but hope that replacment parts (like the valve) wont cost anything to current owners, when they are done. I would really like to use the whole kit together when bugs are sorted out, but it looks like I found out hands on, that the hammer will work great with the stock valve/volly for now.

El Pirata
01-29-2005, 08:36 PM
I guess I'll start making seals out of rubber gasket material.

Trigga Nometry
01-29-2005, 08:45 PM
I guess I'll start making seals out of rubber gasket material.Evolve is beating you to it. They are designing the new part and will send the replacements to all current Evolve users at no cost. That information came right from both peegee and Chris from Evolve.

El Pirata
01-29-2005, 10:05 PM
I'm not disputing that one just I bought mine directly from Andy for one and two what am I supposed to use between now and the time I get the replacement? Not play?

Trigga Nometry
01-29-2005, 10:10 PM
I'm not disputing that one just I bought mine directly from Andy for one and two what am I supposed to use between now and the time I get the replacement? Not play?I think you are misinterpreting me. All I meant was, not to worry because Evolve will be sending out the new parts soon. That's all.

El Pirata
01-29-2005, 10:21 PM
I'm sorry I was sounding like a dick in my last post. I was merely meaning that I will make rubber gaskets to use in case I break an o-ring so I don't have ti reinstall the stock parts.

chillum
01-31-2005, 03:16 PM
I just played my first tourney with the new Evolve valve fitted (and delrin bolt) and have to say it worked fantastically.
Shot a case of Blaze on a cold day and had about 5 barrel breaks all day, the weird bit (and best) is that after a couple of shots through the $h1t it was firing accurately again, didn't need to squeegee mid-game at all - what a life saver !

Settings now..
Delrin Bolt + Evolve valve
Evolve LPR without internals (apart from seal ;) ) running at 52psi
input to mini-reg 275psi
dwell - 9 (speed '04)
I also played three games before remembering to fill up with air and still had 700 psi lef tin the tank :)