Valve Shifting

[El Pirata]

WHile I was testing the DEZign bolts against the stock bolt this morning I noticed inconsistancy between shots. One of DEZ's friends suggested that I needed a little oil. Since I had not added a drop of oil in my Speed since I bought her I figured it was logical.

After adding 3 drops of oil into the air line I cycled my Speed a few dozen times getting all of the internals lubricated. I had my breech open so I could see a little oily residue when the oil had reached the valve. As I was firing it I notided that I was seeing the vavle at a different aspect as I normally see it. Upon closer inspection I noticed that the valve was shifting from left to right one shot then back the next shot.

I removed the valve and found that the valve retaining pin was a loose fit at best. DEZ took his calipers and found that there was .013 diference between the diameter of the pin at one end vs the other. If did appear to have been turned that way but we also found that the narrower end that fit into the valve was a very loose fit holding the valve in place.

In classis DEZ fashion, "I can make you a new pin."

That he does. While there was an improvement in consistancy the problem was not completely solved.

The following pics are of the valve shifted and the making of the new valve retaining pin with the last one being a comparison of the old pin (left) and the new pin.

[El Pirata]

Here's the last pic with the old and new pin.

[pballer2]

crazy

[smasher41]

I belive the pins are turned down for a reason, with a lot of the older angels, the pins were sometimes a total pain to get out, recessing it give its some more room allw allows it to come out easier.

BTW, have you though about trying to get DEZ to make a smoother flowing valve?

[El Pirata]

We modified a valve on an old LCD a few years ago and enlarged all the air passages, remarkably similar to what WDP now does as a standard thing. I like what I am seeing in the shape of the air passages in the speed except the valve stem, I wish they had added a little higher flow valve opening. I am thinking about scoring a tornado valve and doing a few mods to make it fit the speed.

[El Pirata]

I belive the pins are turned down for a reason, with a lot of the older angels, the pins were sometimes a total pain to get out, recessing it give its some more room allw allows it to come out easier.But at the expense of allowing the valve to move? While I like things to he a little easier I would have prefered a set screw if they wanted to make it easier for people to remove the pin.

[El Pirata]

Here are 2 pics DEZ took of the stock pin in the valve and you can see the slop around the pin. The next is the pin he turned for me to replace the stock pin.

[El Pirata]

Here's a composite pic so you can see both aspects better.

[smasher41]

But at the expense of allowing the valve to move? While I like things to he a little easier I would have prefered a set screw if they wanted to make it easier for people to remove the pin.


i will say yours has a lot of slop, my fly, even with the stock, pin does not shift at all, neither does any of the 3 other team guns i have. (older speeds)

my pin will not go in if it was turned around on my fly, without excessive force. perhaps your tolerences were just a wee bit off on the pin?

[DEZ]

I guess one pin could have slipped by quality control...problem found..problem solved.... nice to know what to check for I guess. probably could have ordered a new pin from the manufacturer but it was real nice to be able to make one on the spot that fits to a T and is made of 416 stainless steel so there is less chance of corrosion making it hard to diassemble when need be.

[Sparco]

El, that retaining pin you have is quite interesting. What does the LPR main body retaining pin look like? That recess is "unique" to say the least. I've got a spares bag of pins in my workshop (5 to be exact) and none of them have a tampered/recessed part halfway through. They're all one fluid cut, minus the ring on the side that sticks out from the body. But that's used for removal and as a guideline to know which side goes in, as another option.

I wonder if WDP has slightly modified the design, because like DEZ said... if that pin gets jammed in there it's a massive hassle to get it out. I've actually switched to lightly greasing the pin for ease in removal/insertion. To avoid corrosion I clean out the slot once a month with a wire brush and some CLR.

[KEN CRANE]

no change was made.i have seen a pin or 2 that chattered and done what yours did.

[jwcardy]

um that is funny that this thread was started...after playing with my speed yesterday, i hade some problems with my valve...after about a hopper, my shots would drop off to about 15ft in front of me...i was stunned...upon opening my breech, i noticed that i couldnt see the hole in my valve....after taking everything apart to get to the valve and determine why my valve walked to the side, i noticed that it did not have the retaining pin...did mine shatter??? i didnt notice any piece in my gun anywhere, or did WDP just forget to put it in there...i did a temp fix on it using and allen key trimed to size, but i am not going to leave that in there, cause i paid almost a "g" for this gun, and it shouldnt have come with out it...Ken, what steps to i need to take to get one...also, do you have any explanation as to why this happened.

[WDP-Shooter]

Have you ever had your gun opened by your or someone else? To my understanding WDP test fires every gun before they're shipped out, and I think that would be something they'd notice.

[jwcardy]

Have you ever had your gun opened by your or someone else? To my understanding WDP test fires every gun before they're shipped out, and I think that would be something they'd notice.

nope i am the only person...and the first time i broke the gun down was to determine the problem of the valve shifting...after looking at the manual and seeing that i should have a retaining pin, i went to look for it

[KEN CRANE]

um that is funny that this thread was started...after playing with my speed yesterday, i hade some problems with my valve...after about a hopper, my shots would drop off to about 15ft in front of me...i was stunned...upon opening my breech, i noticed that i couldnt see the hole in my valve....after taking everything apart to get to the valve and determine why my valve walked to the side, i noticed that it did not have the retaining pin...did mine shatter??? i didnt notice any piece in my gun anywhere, or did WDP just forget to put it in there...i did a temp fix on it using and allen key trimed to size, but i am not going to leave that in there, cause i paid almost a "g" for this gun, and it shouldnt have come with out it...Ken, what steps to i need to take to get one...also, do you have any explanation as to why this happened.\

have you had your frame off for any reason? just drop me a email or pm and ill send you one.

[rix123]

...hmmmm, is it possible that while the frame was off, the valve retaining pin was accidentially switched with the LPR retaining pin??? I'll have to look at the two and see if they differ in diameter and cross-section..

[El Pirata]

...hmmmm, is it possible that while the frame was off, the valve retaining pin was accidentially switched with the LPR retaining pin??? I'll have to look at the two and see if they differ in diameter and cross-section..
Are you talking on mine? If so that is possible but it had to have been done before I bought my speed as after I saw the valve shifting I took off the grip frame for the first time.

[jwcardy]

Are you talking on mine? If so that is possible but it had to have been done before I bought my speed as after I saw the valve shifting I took off the grip frame for the first time.

yeah same here, the first time that i took the grip off was when i noticed that my valve was shifting and that was after i had already taken the valve out of the front of the gun with the grip still on, so there had to be no pin in my gun, because i removed the valve out of the front of the gun with the grip still on it

[El Pirata]

Well that's definately not normal.

[Neo]

the one DEZ made for you looks like its not exactly smooth, its sorta bumpy... maybe it just my imagination

[El Pirata]

Believe me it's smooth.

[Neo]

maybe an optical illusion, cuz this looks really "wavey" to me
(it is the one on the right thats new, right?)

[El Pirata]

Yes the one DEZ made is on the right. Yes it's smooth to feel however it is not polished. The wavy look you are seeing is probably scratches from the sand paper he used to smooth it out.

[Neo]

ill take your word for it :biggthump

[jish]

maybe an optical illusion, cuz this looks really "wavey" to me
(it is the one on the right thats new, right?)

It's called "pixelation". It happens when digital images get distorted when they are enlarged or f'd with..... LOL

[Neo]

ive decided that its a reflection - or at least thats what i tell myself so that i can sleep at night

[DEZ]

Yes its smooth...I polished it with 600 grit wet/dry silicone carbide paper. slides in real nice. with like a .001 thousanth fit compared to the .013 slop it had before.

[Neo]

just for the record, i wasnt questioning your ability to machine parts

[El Pirata]

Don't worry both of us can take your little bashing. I've been promoting his stuff for years because I believe in both the products and the man that makes them. The fact that he only lives a few miles if icing on the cake. If I had to ship my stuff to him for mods from across the country I would do it in a heartbeat.

I get bashed left and right from people who heard from a friend who heard from their sister's second cousin's brother who heard from the dude that works at Baskens and Robbins that appearantly had a bad experience with New Dezigns and got it confused with DEZign. Also the other type that are spouting off at the mouth about something they've never tried nor have any intention about trying before they bash it.

[jwcardy]

how much for one, i want one right away, whether it is bumpy or no, cause i bet that it beats the trimed allen key that i am using..... :smile:

[Neo]

Don't worry both of us can take your little bashing. I've been promoting his stuff for years because I believe in both the products and the man that makes them. The fact that he only lives a few miles if icing on the cake. If I had to ship my stuff to him for mods from across the country I would do it in a heartbeat.

I get bashed left and right from people who heard from a friend who heard from their sister's second cousin's brother who heard from the dude that works at Baskens and Robbins that appearantly had a bad experience with New Dezigns and got it confused with DEZign. Also the other type that are spouting off at the mouth about something they've never tried nor have any intention about trying before they bash it.

...wasnt intentioned to be a bashing.

heck, i dont even belong to pbnation! lol

[El Pirata]

how much for one, i want one right away, whether it is bumpy or no, cause i bet that it beats the trimed allen key that i am using..... :smile:
Don't know how much he is charging or if he is planning on mass producing them. He had been trying to get my marker consistant. Drop him an e-mail dezrl@msn.com and ask.

[rix123]

yeah same here, the first time that i took the grip off was when i noticed that my valve was shifting and that was after i had already taken the valve out of the front of the gun with the grip still on, so there had to be no pin in my gun, because i removed the valve out of the front of the gun with the grip still on it

:scratchhe ...as El Pirata stated, that is not normal because the valve is held in place by that retaining pin :scratchhe

[jwcardy]

:scratchhe ...as El Pirata stated, that is not normal because the valve is held in place by that retaining pin :scratchhe

yeah, so what happened to mine....i dont know...but it is okay, i have talked to Ken and he is suppose to be sending me one....