How I installed my Newton Evolve Kit in my Angel [Archive]

Trigga Nometry

12-31-2004, 10:46 PM

See the bottom of this first post for a downloadable Adobe PDF File of these instructions.

UPDATE FOR THOSE NOT WANTING TO INSTALL THE KIT YOURSELF: Ken Crane posted this on the AOG:
if you are the faint of heart send it in to a mt service center. we will all be evolve service centers very soon and more info from the others and a full write up very soon. you can count on full honesty from all of us on this kit.

The kit can now be purchased at Performance Angel (link to product) (http://performanceangel.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=273&cat=0&page=) and also Fix My Angel (link to product) (http://secure.fixmyangel.com/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&products_id=437&osCsid=).

I recently installed my Newton Evolve Angel Valve Kit (http://www.evolvepaintball.com/other.php) in my Angel Speed 05 and I thought I'd attempt to write up exactly how I did it. I figured that it might help others install the kit or help those who might buy it see what you'd have to do if you install it yourself. I pretty much followed Evolve's instructions (you can see them HERE (http://www.angel-owners.com/showpost.php?p=308753&postcount=13)) step-by-step but my instructions will include pics.

OK, here we go!

Before we begin - you will need the WDP Tool Kit (http://www.performanceangel.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=117&cat=60&page=1) to properly install the Evolve Kit and also some WDP Love Grease or Force Grease (http://secure.fixmyangel.com/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&products_id=102&osCsid=5ae7553196dc437f839db1ff662db988). Evolve supplies you with the Ram Removal Tool with the purchase of the Evolve Kit but you will still need the WDP Gauge Tool and WDP LPR Removal Tool. The WDP Tool Kit can be purchased at any of the stores listed at www.angellforce.tv under STORES (http://www.angelforce.tv/stores.html).

My stock Speed 05 just before it "Evolved", it doesn't even know what it is in for!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/001.jpg

Here is the actual kit and instructions:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/002.jpg

The first thing you have to do is replace the stock "heavy" hammer with the Evolve light weight hammer. So, you remove the back plate to expose the back of the Ram. That is the Blue thing seen here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/003.jpg

You use the Ram removal tool (see on the right), to get the Ram and Hammer out of the Angel. To do this, you insert the tool into the ram and turn the tool counter-clockwise. This turns the Ram on it's threads and when you pull it out, it looks like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/004.jpg

Then you remove the locking screw that holds the stock hammer on. The screw is very small and be very carefully not to loose it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/005.jpg

After you remove the locking screw, the hard part is removing the stock hammer from the Ram Shaft. You should use a pair of soft-faced pliers. Be very careful not to damage your ram shaft in any way! I didn't have any soft faced-pliers, so I improvised and used some rubber along with my vise-grips. I was very careful not to damage the ram shaft. I also used a wrench as leverage to turn the hammer off the ram shaft. The hammer is threaded:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/006.jpg

Then you install the Evolve light weight Hammer on the ram shaft. Before screwing the new hammer on, be sure that the metal part of the hammer is on the red plastic part tight. Mine was a little loose and I addeda drop of Loctite to it to be sure it wouldn't come undone during use. Be sure to also remove any of the red plastic shavings that might be in the new hammer's threads. Mine hammer had some small pieces that you wouldn't want getting into your Angel. Get all the crap out before installing the Evolve hammer on the Ram Shaft. I had some in there that I had to clean out. I used a drop of Blue Loctite to make sure it stays on there:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/007.jpg

You then put the locking screw back on the Evolve Hammer. Use a very small amount of Blue Loctite here too:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/008.jpg

Using the Ram Tool, put the Ram/Hammer assembly back in the Angel:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/009.jpg
I used THESE INSTRUCTIONS (http://www.angel-owners.com/showpost.php?p=301418&postcount=1) by Ken Crane to adjust my Ram again. You have to re-adjust the Ram once you remove it.

Oh yeah, obviously, degas the marker at the proper times during the install.

You then have to get the LPR up to about 100psi before installing the Evolve LPR Cap. So it's a good idea to see what your current LPR is running at. Gas the Angel up and fire 5-6 dry shots to equalize the LPR pressure and make sure you have the Tool Gauge on when you are doing this because that is how you'll read the pressure. As you can see, my LPR was stock from WDP at 65psi:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/010.jpg

So if each shim is about 5psi, I have to add about 6-7 more shims to bring it up to about 100psi. People have been reporting that if you do not bring the stock LPR up to 100psi, you may experiance shoot down during rapid fire.

So I'll have to remove the LPR to add the shims. Get out your LPR tool and get ready to remove the LPR:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/011.jpg

When you screw the tool into the LPR, you then gently pull out the LPR piston and this is what you'll see (you can see the Spring Stack and the brass LPR Piston with the LPR Removal Tool still attached to the LPR Piston):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/012.jpg

You can purchase extra LPR Shims from HERE (http://www.angelparts.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=3917&cat=0&page=1) or HERE (http://secure.fixmyangel.com/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&cPath=22_19&products_id=29). Here are what my extra shims look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/013.jpg

Be careful not to mess up the spring stack order! They go back in in the same fashion as you took them out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/SpringStackOrder.jpg
I ended up adding only 4 shims to bring my LPR up to 100psi:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/014.jpg

Now time to put the Evolve LPR Cap on the Angel. I greased up the brass part that is in the LPR Cap and on the o-ring that you see on the brass part that goes into the LPR Cap. I even lightly greased all the Newton parts to be sure that everything would be smooth. Here is the order in which it goes in:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/015.jpg

Screw the Evolve Gauge on the LPR Cap and then adjust your new LPR Cap to 50 psi by using the adjuster screw on the front of the LPR Cap. Fire some dry shots in between to let the pressure equalize. Here is what I got:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/016.jpg

Be sure to tighten (not over tighten) the silver flat-head screw that are on the LPR Cap. Some people have had them fall out. Good thing to check them from time to time to be sure that they do not loosen over time.

Be careful not to loose any of the very small o-rings on the Evolve Gauge or on the screws that you remove to put the gauge on. Here is what the Evolve gauge looks like no the Evolve LPR Cap:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/017.jpg

Next you want to install the Evolve Valve. You remove the exhaust cap and pull out the stock valve parts. The stock parts are see on top and the new Evolve valve parts are below it in this pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/018.jpg
See that small spring that goes into the Newton Volumizer before the rod goes in? Be sure that you do not already have one in there. Some kits have some with one small spring already there. You only need one. The kit does come with an extra spring for later use so you will see two in your kit.

Be sure to apply grease to the two o-rings that are on the Newton Valve! This is very important because some users are having problems with the o-rings getting damaged. The Kit also comes with two spare orings just in case you do have a problem.

As you see, you still use the WDP stock valve, you just use the new seal that Evolve gives you. You then follow the Evolve instructions to eliminate blow back. I have not done this yet. It's too late right now. The one thing that is hard is trying to guess at what your minireg is set to. Evolve says to set it to 220psi to then reduce blow back. You adjust the blow back by screwing in or out the front screw on the Evolve volumizer.

Here is my Evolved Speed 05:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/ne.jpg

Please add to this so we can build a real helpful thread in installing the kit.

Also - please post your settings that you are using or any other details that I might have left out or have not even thought about.

Let's make this the best thread out there for this kit!

NOTE FOR WHEN ADJUSTING THE NEWTON VOLUMIZER FOR BLOW BACK: Furby has pointed out that he found it best to make the Newton Valve Volumizer adjustments with the marker de-gassed. This helps make the current o-ring on the valve last longer. When you adjust the valve's screw with the valve under pressure, it tends to damage the o-ring and shorten it's life.

Winnebago

12-31-2004, 11:17 PM

2 thumbs up and mucho props!

sharps990

12-31-2004, 11:22 PM

i wish i had had this a week ago

then i wouldnt have have striped my new LPR screw

one other suggestion that i found... if you dont have the angel tool kit, to find your original pressure and to set your internal lpr to 100 take out the spring and the peice inside of the spring and screw that into the hole, put on your gauge that came w/ the newton... that will give you your pressure

hope this helps

sharps

tgaffner

01-01-2005, 12:18 AM

Wow, I never knew that there was a valve spring tension adjuster....

Thanks!

jkocovski

01-01-2005, 05:31 AM

:bigok: Wow... great howto! Thanks to Trigga Nometry!

Can`t await to get my evolve kit :-) Hopefully i have it in the next couple of days in my hands :-)

Outerice

01-01-2005, 11:35 AM

nice job trig.

reticule

01-01-2005, 11:56 AM

Nice job! :biggthump This post should help all those who want to learn about the LPR and ram/hammer assembly, with or without the evolve kit.

dynastySSS

01-01-2005, 03:13 PM

very nice job tig madd props to u!!!!

Raoul

01-01-2005, 03:53 PM

First, it's nice for once to see that *somebody* out there knows how to use the Macro function on a digital camera! :D

Second, pic 7 (....007.jpg) has a space in the URL link.

Third.... Man, you did a hella job on this, *Mad Props* for laying it out so thoroughly!

thog94

01-01-2005, 04:25 PM

I'll sticky this and move it to the tech ref section...

Thanks for the input TN

peegee

01-01-2005, 08:01 PM

Awesome job dude 3 gold stars for that one. You wanna do the new instructions for me..

peegee

Trigga Nometry

01-01-2005, 09:56 PM

Thanks for all feedback guys! It really makes the work worth the effort. I'm just trying to help out as best I can.

I couple of other things that I noted during the install but didn't have a chance to put in the post are:

1. When you have the LPR set to 100psi (before the Evolve LPR Cap is on) and put then put the LPR CAp on, the directions say to set the adjustment screw flush with the Cap and that will give you "0 psi". What I found that really means is that it adds nothing to the setting. In other words, you still have 100psi when you slap the gauge on. When you turn the LPR adjustment screw in, the psi goes down because you are putting tension on the spring in the Evolve LPR Cap.

2. I too have read that the new LPR Cap causes creeping. I haven't tested the kit but I can tell you that after I installed and set the LPR Cap to 50psi, I left it there for an hour or so and the psi did not change.

3. When I first put the LPR Cap on, I found that my LPR was leaking just above the minireg. I freaked out and then decided to take the LPR apart using the LPR removal tool. I out a little more grease on the LPR Piston O-Ring and push the assembly back in there and the leaking was no longer there.

4. I tried to briefly set the blow-back as the instructions state. You put two balls in the feedneck and fire one. You then observe what happens to the other ball. I found that with the stock set-up the second ball flew right out of the feedneck about a full foot in the air!. I tried to change the Evolve Valve using the screw on the front of the Evolve Volumizer and it instantly reduced the blow back to where the second ball barely moved at all (no blow-back).

That is all I have for now. I can't wait to get a little more time to get this baby properly tuned up and running to see how well (or not) it really works.

Right now, my biggest frustration is not knowing the pressure of my minireg because I want to fine tune the kit to get it really efficient. I also do not want to pressure too high because I want to be as gentle on the paintballs as possible.

What I plan on doing is getting a gauge in the 0-300psi range and swap it for the 0-160psi gauge that is on the WDP Tool Kit. That way, I can put it gauge on the exhaust side and know exactly what pressure my 05 is operating at.

Anyway, thanks again and keep those questions coming!

I cannot wait to hear everyone's input when they have their kit installed.

Trigga Nometry

01-01-2005, 10:20 PM

For those interested, here are Evolve's Instructions.

Just save them to your hard drive and then print them as needed.

Raoul

01-02-2005, 12:03 AM

Hey Trigga, in your last post you said....

4. I tried to briefly set the blow-back as the instructions state. You put two balls in the feedneck and fire one. You then observe what happens to the other ball. I found that with the stock set-up the second ball flew right out of the feedneck about a full foot in the air!. I tried to change the Evolve Valve using the screw on the front of the Evolve Volumizer and it instantly reduced the blow back to where the second ball barely moved at all (no blow-back).

I'm wondering which way did you turn the screw to reduce the blowback, stronger or lighter spring tension?

Thanx again for taking the time to do this! (...and I think peegee just offered you a job ;) )

tgaffner

01-02-2005, 12:13 AM

Sweet!

I cant wait untill it comes!

Investorguy

01-02-2005, 01:51 AM

Wow... this is a TIGHT review.

Then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from TN.

*zool*

01-02-2005, 04:35 AM

Very Nice.
Now I can't wait till I can afford the 05 and this kit.
If Trigga is ok with it and anyone wants it I made a pdf of the initial post and the followup with the pictures baked into it.
Just say the word and I can host it for a limited time..

Mr.Powers

01-02-2005, 03:13 PM

Trigga, you are the man. You may have converted me finally... I'll let you know at the end of summer. $$$

Just remember to treat your black eyed Angel well, and that sexy appirition of yours will take care of you...

-B

Trigga Nometry

01-02-2005, 09:28 PM

Since this post has been stickied in the Technical Reference section, I thought I'd copy over a couple quotes regarding the kit and what it is for. I figure it help those that are asking "What exactly is the kit for?" Here they are:

The whole point to the Evolve Kit is not the LPR or how low you can get your settings.

Here is what Evolve says about how it works:
With the Lightweight hammer you can run low lprs due to the removed recipricating mass when i mean light weight i mean LIGHT and due to the way the new valve works it requires hardly any force to open we run at 220/230 because it is the most effecient we could go lower. As for the blast of air on a paintball this has been proven to not break paintballs it is the bolt hitting the ball that breaks it as proven by airgun designs hence their Lv10 bolt.

Well we have mixed the 2 you have stated up there

LOW LPR + medium operating pressure+ LOW DWELL = High rate of fire, high shot count and no ballbreakage.

peegee

And others explaining it:
The valve probably has higher flow and opens with less force. This means that the LPR can be lower. As far as the lighter hammer weight goes, it still hits with the same force as a heavier hammer (F=MA, less weight will cause more acceleration but the same force) but the hammer accelerates away from the valve quicker once it has reached equilibrium(once it stops moving forward). To make up for the shorter dwell, they upped the pressure. Since you are moving less mass(less force) you are using less air. Combine that with the upped pressure and you have yourself a more efficient marker.

Think of it in simpler terms like on a blowback. We all know that a lighter hammer and ligther hammer spring will cause the fps to go down on a spyder so you turn up the pressure and add a lighter valve spring/higher flow valve to compensate.

Also:
Ok now i will explain how the valve works

We have used a pat pending process of preassure/area reduction
basically if you imagine your valve seat being held shut by air pressure and a spring you have to hit the valve with a heavy mass at speed to open it then to allow it to stay open you have to add dwell.

what we have done is create a valve seat that has a small piston attached to a rod on the back of the seat this piston is 2/3rds the size of the seat and it sits in the volumiser. when you apply air preassure to the valve seat now you apply 2/3rds the preassure to the piston so basically you have less preassure pressing on the seat. this means you can run a slightly higher input preassure. Add to this the fact it now only needs to be hit with a lightweight force for example a 10 gram hammer at a lower lpr preassure.

So you get decreased kick. More Accuracy, better gas consumption no ball breakage even with brittle paint. and because the dwell can be run lower you increase the cycle time of the gun.

Trigga Nometry

01-02-2005, 09:34 PM

I'm wondering which way did you turn the screw to reduce the blowback, stronger or lighter spring tension?

Thanx again for taking the time to do this! (...and I think peegee just offered you a job ;) )I actually turn it IN to reduce the blow-back so that would have been stronger spring tension. I still have to fine tune it though.

There are four variables that are key to getting the kit set up to be most effcient:

1. The dwell setting
2. The mini-reg pressure
3. The valve spring tension (on the Newton Volumizer)
4. The LPR pressure

Once we get to see how they work together and discover what combination work best together, we'll really be rocking. It sounds like Talfuchre already has expected this by his post here regarding his use of the Evolve Kit:

Here is what I have seen from the Evolve - but I want to test it a lot more.

1) There is NO - I mean NO kick. It kicks less than a DM4 or any other marker I have ever fired. This is my 17th season so I do not say that lightly.

2) It is efficient. We dropped 500 rounds out of a 45/4500 and shot 1800 PSI. If that is right - you can get 10 140 round tubes out of a 45/45! Sheesh!

3) It is touchy. It sets up your 5peed like a race car - but any race car is very suceptible to changes. So - when you change your velocity - you will likely change your blow back in the feed neck. If you are mechanical enough - you can set your marker up at the beginning of the day and forget it. But the difference is that the 5peed right now can be set up once - and forgotton until there is a problem. Not a huge negative but something to consider.

But - If you are okay with your efficiency the kick thing is REALLY impressive but doesn't really change a lot.

I mean - with an Empire youc an rip 25 BPS forever without the barrel moving at all - but if the comparison of a large vol and the Evolution is not a huge difference.

For 150 bucks I was REALLY impressed - but I am not sure if you really need the changes it provides.

TF

pblcd225

01-03-2005, 01:06 PM

K guys!!!

Here is my problem I am getting 230-241 shots per 1000psi. Whats my problem?
Here are my settings:

Dwell 9
lpr 50(with kit on)
output from my tank is 465

I have set this gun up twice and still im getting the same results????? Also the spring tension has been set.

Scott7d

01-03-2005, 04:29 PM

Trig, I havent had any probs installing the kit, but its cool you are being real helpful about this. Good work!!

speedfreakspb

01-03-2005, 05:23 PM

Maybe you have a leak somewhere. If you don't tighten the screws on the LPR it tends to leak (obviously). Check your hoses as well.

pblcd225

01-03-2005, 07:18 PM

No leaks everything has been checked...... also This is a A4fly with the mini reg pressure of 240....

Help would be great;)

Trigga Nometry

01-03-2005, 10:03 PM

To help me fine tune the Evolve Kit with my Speed 05, I changed the gauge on the WDP Tool Kit to a 0-300 psi pressure gauge. Now I can use it on the exhaust side to see what the operating pressure/minreg pressure is set to at a given time.

The gauge only cost $5!

I hope to try it out tomorrow and see what settings work best.

welted

01-04-2005, 02:54 AM

excellent, i'm interested to see what kind of operating pressures you're using...

speedfreakspb

01-04-2005, 04:25 AM

Does that really make a lot of sense to you Trigga Nometry, without the volumizer ?

Trigga Nometry

01-04-2005, 08:41 AM

Does that really make a lot of sense to you Trigga Nometry, without the volumizer ?I'm not sure what you mean?

If you mean will the gauge still work and tell you the right operating pressure if the volumizer isn't there, the answer is YES because it is measuring the output of what the minireg is set to. The volumizer does noit play a role in that.

But to use the gauge, I have to remove the Evolve valve and replace with the stock valve internals to keep the valve shut and sealed. That takes a couple of seconds to do.

speedfreakspb

01-04-2005, 02:30 PM

Ah yeah, I thought it was measuring the overall pressure in the body.
Sorry :)

welted

01-04-2005, 02:36 PM

regardless, speedfreak, having the gauge or the volumizer wouldn't change the pressure in the body. the pressure is determined by the output from the minireg. he'd set that with the volumizer on, then take it off and put the gauge on to read it. it'll read the same with it on or off. the volumizer is used to lower the operating pressure (meaning, to set the minireg), but once that's done, it can be removed to read with the gauge. of course, when you remove it, the velocity will change, but that's not what he's looking at right now.

RaistlinsLegacy

01-04-2005, 03:52 PM

lol watch out for the lpr caps screws!!!!

Trigga Nometry

01-04-2005, 03:55 PM

lol watch out for the lpr caps screws!!!!Are you talking about the silver flat-head screws that you remove to use the Evolve LPR Gauge?

Raoul

01-04-2005, 07:25 PM

Sounds like somebody took out the screw without de-gassing the gun... Ka-Ching! :P

anjordan77

01-05-2005, 11:14 AM

excellent directions...

as to those that don't have the LPR tool...i heard you can use a long screw that the halo shell uses. just fyi.

and the LPR spring stack goes like this:

Newton then )()( then shims

anjordan77

01-05-2005, 11:30 AM

oh yeah, other notables, make sure before putting a spring in your volumizer that you don't already have one in there...i've heard people having this problem...

basically you should have an extra screw and an extra spring in the kit.

you will need shims!!!! to get to 100psi. if you don't get it to 100psi you will risk shootdown at high rates of fire

pblcd225

01-05-2005, 11:52 AM

Trigga Nometry

01-05-2005, 11:56 AM

K I got a inline gauge on and it was at 300, so this may have been my problem....(with useing to much air) but I have a new problem

At 250 on my inline I cannot get the chrono over 260 fps and ideas?????You might have to run at a slightly higher pressure. Each gun is different.

Remember that right now the word from Evolve is that you want a medium operating pressure from inline reg + low dwell + Low LPR for the best efficiency.

I can't wait for the MT's post for what they find from using or seting up the Evolve Kit. I'm sure their input will be very valuable and answer alot of setting and set-up questions.

Trigga Nometry

01-05-2005, 11:58 AM

Thanks for all the feedback and input everyone :bowdown: . I have been updating the first post to include everyone's input.

The first post is well....."evolving". :biggthump

pblcd225

01-05-2005, 11:59 AM

Trigga Nometry

01-05-2005, 12:02 PM

Cool so from your point of view go with a inline pressure of 290ish and dont worry about only getting 1150 shots per 68 4500 fill?

Also the pics in the post are VERY good... I know alot of people will need this post when they install the kitSomebody correct me is I'm wrong on this but I think you will see better shots/fill if you properly reduce the blow-back. I believe that the blow-back is in fact wasted air. When tuned properly, the newton valve will reduce the wasted air and therefore increase how many shots per tank you'll see. At least in theory anyway :puzzled: .

What does everyone else think?

anjordan77

01-05-2005, 12:05 PM

i agree, and it should allow your gun to fire a little faster since the hopper won't have to feed against the blow back...

Trigga Nometry

01-05-2005, 12:12 PM

i agree, and it should allow your gun to fire a little faster since the hopper won't have to feed against the blow back...I think a lot of people will be surprised when they go through blow-back reduction part of the install. At least those that never even thought about the effect of blow back (like me) will.

When I first installed it and went to observe the blow-back before the tuning, I was shocked to see the second ball jump clear out of the feedneck (about 1-2 feet into the air!). Reducing that sure won't hurt the paint or hopper! It should keep everything loading into the feedneck all that much more consistent.

Obviously, you check for blow-back with the loader off the gun ;) and about 2-3 balls in the feedneck. Pull the trigger and watch the balls leap out of the feedneck from the blow back.

speedfreakspb

01-05-2005, 01:05 PM

pblcd225

01-05-2005, 01:37 PM

I problem is fixed and after every small adjustment I must say it rips more than before!!

Trigga Nometry

01-05-2005, 01:56 PM

I problem is fixed and after every small adjustment I must say it rips more than before!!In case others run into the same problem - what did you adjust to get the problem fixed?

pblcd225

01-05-2005, 04:05 PM

I set the inline to 250(like you should) and then chrono'ed with the stock internals in and the gauge still on...... So I decide to set the inline to 250 and put on the newton valve piece and mizer and it chrono'ed at 290-294..

Not sure which way you guys set it(the first way or the second) but it is working perfect now!

Trigga Nometry

01-05-2005, 04:10 PM

I currently have the LPR set to 50-55psi, my inline pressure set to 220-230psi and a dwell of 10 (2nd LED up). It's chrono'ing at about 288 fps with no shoot down and very little blow back. I still have to beat the heck out of it to see what kind of efficiency and consistency I'm seeing. I hate that it gets dark at 5PM already. I really want to give the kit a work out to see what settings I'll finally use.

Remember that Evolve recommends to set your dwell at one higher that the lowest. For a Speed 05, the 2nd LED up is 10 (according to Frazer at WPD that can be found in a earlier post).

I want to try that first since Evolve recommends to start there. I want to play with Evolve's settings for a short while before I make changes to it. It'll be easier to tell the "feel" between the setting changes if I get used to one set or settings.

pblcd225

01-05-2005, 05:03 PM

I agree I run the fly and I have my dwell at 8 I tried both 7 and 9 today I I found 8 to be by far the best(when you get up to 9 and 10 you can really feel the differentance than it being at 8)

I Also want to try and get the lrp lower and see at about what point the preformance is effected......

I'll put it to the test saturday at practice and post some results then, but at for now I feel
For the A4 fly
Dwell at 8
lpr 49
inline pressure 235

Is the way to go for my gun

Also people are asking if the mod is worth 150$ and my answer is YES but... you need to understand how the angel works and have some kind of tech skills ;)

Trigga Nometry

01-06-2005, 10:08 AM

I don't mind the wasted air, I would rather have some smoother action on the gun.

So basically why you lower the dwell that drastic is to save air ?

I don't mind filling after each game, but will raising my dwell effect anything else than smoother action while shooting a paintball?When using this kit, you can lower the dwell because you are running at a slightly higher or medium operating pressure so the valve does not have to stay open as long (lower dwell).

I know you don't mind the wasted air but I bet you'll like the smoother action better due to there being low dwell, low LPR and no blow back.

anjordan77

01-06-2005, 10:35 AM

dwell also effects your BPS, balls per second...

speedfreakspb

01-06-2005, 03:08 PM

That is going to be spat out by the board anjordan, not by the dwell time. That's soooooooooo unimportant that you wouldnt notice.

anjordan77

01-06-2005, 03:46 PM

well dwell of 13 to a dwell of 8 is noticeable...

or even more drastic do the max dwell then drop it to 8...you will see a bps increase

P8ntSlinger44

01-06-2005, 10:17 PM

I have been tinkering with my evolve kit for a few weeks now. The stock settings are decent. But i still want a lower LPR pressure then 50. BUT, i have severe shootdown problems with any LPR pressure lower then about 46 psi. 50psi works great though. AND, i cant set my dwell any lower then 10, or else i get shootdown from that too. I would like to run a dwell of 8, but never have been able to.

the set up now on my Speed is
dwell-10
lpr-50
minireg- dont know

the problem could be that the valve spring tension is to tight. But its better to have is tighter i would think. Better consistancy and more efficient.

anjordan77

01-06-2005, 11:40 PM

maybe you didn't get your angel lpr up to 100psi like directions stated?

Furby

01-07-2005, 05:26 PM

Just installed my Evolve Kit on my Fly...thanks to Trigga Nometry for making it easy!

P8ntSlinger44

01-08-2005, 12:12 AM

The internal LPR is deffinitely at 100 psi.

esandov

01-09-2005, 07:44 PM

Marker was running really sweet last week with the evolve kit (LPR 60, Dw 9 [accidental setting]). But after switching the settings a bit (LPR 42, Dw 8) I had severe shootdown and chopping. Bringing the settings back up (LPR 45, Dw 10) has reduced my shootdown and chopping. Yet I still feel I have been chopping more paint in the breach than when it came stock. I have changed the bolt from the softface to a DEZign openface bolt and I have shooting a Beloader B which I think is misbehaving. I have researched the forums (ram adj., dwell adj., Reloader batt. reduction).

What I find awkward is that when the eyes are shut off, the marker is nearly perfect. Yet once the eyes are enabled I am having chops and leader studdering.

The difference between the eyes and no eyes is the BPS cap. I know this sounds newbish but can there be a problem here somwhere?

Additionally I think there has been issues with my loader breaking paint. I find paint on the impellers alot. What can be done about this?

The reason I am posting here is because all of this feels as if the behavior has been amplified my my Newton Kit.

Someone key in with some suggestions.

P8ntSlinger44

01-09-2005, 09:05 PM

Beats me man...

yzrm1

01-09-2005, 09:58 PM

Additionally I think there has been issues with my loader breaking paint. I find paint on the impellers alot. What can be done about this?

It sounds like you might not have adjusted your volumizer/valve for the blow back effects of the evolve kit if paint is on your impellers.

Chaos_Lord

01-09-2005, 11:42 PM

what case is that in the pics TN. where did you get it. where can we get it?

Trigga Nometry

01-10-2005, 08:40 AM

what case is that in the pics TN. where did you get it. where can we get it?HERE (http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=24981-000010203-VGC-5200) is where I got the case. It is an awesome case for only $25! It's aluminum and the foam is precut so you can customize it real easy. My Angel fits in there perfectly. Looks sweet too. Rugged as hell.

Trigga Nometry

01-10-2005, 12:42 PM

Just thought I'd add this bit of info: This is how peegee from Evolve is recommending you tune the Newton Evolve Kit once it is installed:

1. Fit all the kit (use standard adjustment screwin newton )

2. Set LPR at 100 adjuster with the Newton LPR Cap set to 50 psi

3. Dwell of 9

4. Then shoot the 2 ball test (do this without the chrono)

5. Then once the 2 ball is working shoot over the chrono and adjust your mini reg a bit at a time using the 2 balls in the stack to make sure no blow back if there is slightly tweek the newton.

Trigga Nometry

01-12-2005, 10:49 AM

I finally got time to tune my kit yesterday and I too am having these same problems as a few others have been having.

I am running my Speed 05 at about 230-240psi minireg pressure (check it using my custom tool kit).

I got the Newton LPR Cap set to 55psi (after I set the stock LPR to 100psi).

I then fine tuned the blow back to where the really was ZERO blow back.

I had a velocity of about 260fps so I up’ed the minireg very slightly to get about 285fps and still had zero blow-back.

Single shots were perfect velocities with no shoot-down, even no first shot drop off (FSDO). But when I started to let the 05 rip, I had the problems that others have been describing. Really, really bad drop off during rapid fire where paint would get stuck in the barrel and just get smashed in the barrel, just roll out the barrel, etc.....

I then tried a dwell of 10 but still had the same problems.

I am going to get another fill of air today and try to throw a few more shims in my LPR (to get it well over 100psi before I put the Evolve LPR Cap back on) and see what effect that has on the Newton LPR Cap. Maybe that will help the LPR recharge rate? Obviously, I won't run the LPR at the high pressure so as not to damage anything.

If that doesn't work, I am going to throw on the stock LPR and set it to somewhere between 50-70psi and see what happens. Maybe I'll even try to run the Evolce LPR pressure at 65psi to see if it still works.

Still waiting patiently to hear what the MT's have to say on the kit.

drewbug3

01-12-2005, 11:55 AM

walmart has a 4 pistol carrying case for $8 its plastic and has two levels ove foam!

anjordan77

01-12-2005, 11:58 AM

wrong thread there chief

t2zone1

01-12-2005, 07:00 PM

welted

01-12-2005, 08:03 PM

my guess was "loader stuttering", but i don't really know...

KEN CRANE

01-12-2005, 08:21 PM

i still am not very happy with mine. raise the dwell to 10 or 11 and see if the shootdown goes away. as well dont run the lpr so low bump it back up 15-20 lbs

bigfootimp

01-12-2005, 08:57 PM

Wow really glad that I just tinker with my fly and get the effeciency that i get without the kit. Would like to see if people get these problems to disapear though.

Trigga Nometry

01-12-2005, 09:28 PM

i still am not very happy with mine. raise the dwell to 10 or 11 and see if the shootdown goes away. as well dont run the lpr so low bump it back up 15-20 lbsWell I just tried that.

I actually tried everything in creation changing one variable at a time. Nothing worked.

Don't get me wrong - when you fire one shot at a time, the thing worked flawlessly for me. Try and rapid fire and I might as well been throwing the paintballs by hand because I could throw them further than my Speed 05 was shooting.

So I did something really "unconventional", I went completely stock and everything worked perfectly.

The kit is off and it'll stay off until (or if) the MT's start servicing the Newton Evolve Kit. If the MT's get involved, I'll bring it to them.

I feel fairly confident in my tech skills. In other words, I certainly am not a hack and just tried this and that and then just gave up. After a case of paint, and 3 fills, I'm done. I wish I could get it to work.

It rips like no other when stock. Is there what I'd call "kick" or "recoil"? Yes there is when you're running stock. I like the idea that you can reduce blow back with the kit. When you guys that have ordered it test for blow back I think you really will be surprised at how much there is without the kit. The balls really do shoot about 2 feet in the air (at least on mine they did).

Anyway, that is my experiance with the kit to date using my Speed 05. It looks like some people are having problems with the kit and some are not having any problems at all.

Also - when I did remove the Newton LPR Cap and fine tuned the blow-back on the Volumizer, I had massive velocity jumps. Anywhere from 240fps up to 330fps.

I'm just praying that the MT's give the Kit it's blessing and can help me in the near future. If not, I'm out $165.

WDP ir3 2k3

01-13-2005, 07:52 PM

:bigok: 2 thumbs up and mucho props!

Outerice

01-13-2005, 08:28 PM

my fly shoots awsome with the kit. I had jim from impact set it up. I put it in and he tuned it. works great. What i noticed is you just have to keep the lpr almost like stock.mine is between 50-55 and the input is at 240. Zero blow back and i have hit 26bps without any shootdown

tgaffner

01-13-2005, 08:37 PM

Outerice

01-13-2005, 08:42 PM

no set it to 50-55 with the lpr adjuster. I think everyone is haveing so many problems because they are trying to run there gun at to low of an lpr setting. F rom what it says is that you should run it at 55 or above until you really break the kit in. then you can start going with a lower lpr setting.

P8ntSlinger44

01-13-2005, 08:44 PM

Hmm, it seams like you've tried everything possible to get eh 05 to run the way it should with the Newton kit. And maybe you've done all you can. But what if the problem is the kit itself...i mean YOUR individual kit. Perhaps Evolve needs to do more product sampling in order to make sure those 1 in 10 bad kits dont get sent out. I would send it back since it does have a warranty on it.

As for me, Ive put 10,000 shots so far on my kit and all seams well. My settings are dwell 10, LPR 52, minireg set to 260 FPSr indoor (actual PSI unknown). I cant run a dwell lower then 10 without shootdown, and I cant run the LPL below 48 without shootdown. We will have wait and watch for more information to come out on this Newton kit though, since its seams no one can run a dwell or 8, and no one can run a LPR anywhere near the claimed extreme of 35 PSI.

BUT, for me an LPR of 52 and a dwell of 10 is not bad. The kit does make the gun shoot real smooth because of the ram, and i can run my LPR 10 PSI lower then before on the same dwell setting and reach the same velocity. All in all, I dont feel as though Igot what I paid for. But as of right now the gun does perform and feel better.

pblcd225

01-14-2005, 01:23 PM

Well I just tried that.

I actually tried everything in creation changing one variable at a time. Nothing worked.

Don't get me wrong - when you fire one shot at a time, the thing worked flawlessly for me. Try and rapid fire and I might as well been throwing the paintballs by hand because I could throw them further than my Speed 05 was shooting.

So I did something really "unconventional", I went completely stock and everything worked perfectly.

The kit is off and it'll stay off until (or if) the MT's start servicing the Newton Evolve Kit. If the MT's get involved, I'll bring it to them.

I feel fairly confident in my tech skills. In other words, I certainly am not a hack and just tried this and that and then just gave up. After a case of paint, and 3 fills, I'm done. I wish I could get it to work.

It rips like no other when stock. Is there what I'd call "kick" or "recoil"? Yes there is when you're running stock. I like the idea that you can reduce blow back with the kit. When you guys that have ordered it test for blow back I think you really will be surprised at how much there is without the kit. The balls really do shoot about 2 feet in the air (at least on mine they did).

Anyway, that is my experiance with the kit to date using my Speed 05. It looks like some people are having problems with the kit and some are not having any problems at all.

Also - when I did remove the Newton LPR Cap and fine tuned the blow-back on the Volumizer, I had massive velocity jumps. Anywhere from 240fps up to 330fps.

I'm just praying that the MT's give the Kit it's blessing and can help me in the near future. If not, I'm out $165.

I could not agree more!

anjordan77

01-14-2005, 04:33 PM

Trigga Nometry

01-14-2005, 04:51 PM

triggo, how are you measuring your 05's lpr? using the angel toolkit gauge? maybe check that it's right...i've known gauges to go bizerk sometimes...maybe the angel lpr isn't high enough therefore choking the flow?I first set the stock LPR using the WDP Tool Gauge when I checked the stock LPR setting that I found was 65psi. I also used this same tool to raise the LPR to 100psi.

Good point though. I do have a new 0-300psi gauge that I now have on the tool kit. I'll use that this time to set the stock LPR to 100psi just to be sure to rule out a crappy gauge.

I am going to try and reinstall the kit again this weekend. I am going to be sure to clean try everything again. One last attempt!

anjordan77

01-14-2005, 04:55 PM

crossing fingers for you

t2zone1

01-14-2005, 07:32 PM

I first set the stock LPR using the WDP Tool Gauge when I checked the stock LPR setting that I found was 65psi. I also used this same tool to raise the LPR to 100psi.

Good point though. I do have a new 0-300psi gauge that I now have on the tool kit. I'll use that this time to set the stock LPR to 100psi just to be sure to rule out a crappy gauge.

I am going to try and reinstall the kit again this weekend. I am going to be sure to clean try everything again. One last attempt!

Trigga Nometry,

as much as i hate to dig up old bones i thought that i would post the following so that you might check other areas to eliminate your problems with the evlove kit!!

i also have an evolve kit that has been laying on my closet floor for nearly a month now!! i am trying to wait and see how many problems there are with the other people who have installed the kit!!

the following info is not meant to do anything but give you another area to check and by no means am i insinuating that there is a problem with the wdp manufactured products!!

12-02-2004, 03:34 AM #119

tye1138
love thy Angel
Member #: 4634
Age: 26
Location: Studio City California
Posts: 47
Offline

Hey everybody!
Tonight I went ahead and did all my experimenting using a different ASA and inline reg. My results were astounding!!!

I manufactured (from an A4 bad asa) one that would fit onto the 05 speed. This took 1/2 the evening to get right (don't try this at home) and after several failed attempts, we finally got it to work. We stuck a sidwinder on an 05 speed and gased it up.

To my surprise the recharge rate was still slow!!! I knew then, all this time it was a bad LPR! I rushed over to the work bench, grabbed a marker that was being used as spare parts, pulled out the entire LPR assembly from an A4, stuck it in and found it to be working 100%! No drop off, no creeping, just perfect! I proceeded to scream as loud as I could and shot an entire hopper through the marker to make sure it was working.

I grabbed my other 05 speed, and found that IT's LPR did the same thing! So I have 2 05 speeds with bad LPR's! My 3rd 05 speed was out and about, so I could not use it for testing purposes.

All this time, its just been a few bad LPR's and nothing has been wrong with the new inline mini-reg. I reassembled the markers using the new LPR's and the gauges were rock solid perfect. I did a few tests @ 50 psi, and it seemed to work fine. I'm leaving my gat @ 60 due to the risk of 50 psi being too low for rapid firing.

Ok, that's my story! Sorry if I've been upsetting those trying to get Evolve kits, but as I said before; the kits work fine its just the dam markers that don't! I think WDP had a run of bad LPR's. We tried replacing the o-rings and lubing them up with no success. I'll post further info if I hear of anybody else with my problem...
__________________
Tye™

Trigga Nometry

01-14-2005, 08:04 PM

Yup, I remember Tye's post well and all that ensued from it. Yikes!

To be honest, I was thinking about buying another LPR for my Speed 05 but I have too much sunk into the Evolve Kit already that I am hesitant to. I mean another $30 (plus shipping)! What if it isn't the LPR?

Still waiting for the MT's review. That might clear things up. Until then, I am going to give it one more go tomorrow with what I have. If that doesn't work, I'm giving the Kit a thumbs down for my 05.

I'd love to get another LPR assembly if say there was a bad batch of 05 LPR's but how the heck do you prove that there is something wrong with my current LPR?

t2zone1

01-14-2005, 08:13 PM

i can understand you not wanting to invest any more money into the evolve kit!!

my guess is that with wdp designing the 05, and being able to see the physical changes in the body as well as the mini reg, they may have also done something with the lpr design
on the 05 speed that doesnt work well with the evolve kit!!

i am not 100% posistive, but i would bet that evolve was using a fly or perhaps even an a4 when they designed the kit, since news of evolve making this kit has been around since the middle of last summer, i surely doubt that they had an 05 to test on!!

Trigga Nometry

01-14-2005, 09:26 PM

OK - So I couldn't wait until tomorrow to give the Evolve another try so I took out the LPR, cleaned and regreased it well with some Angel Force Grease and I reset the stock LPR to 100psi. I was a hair under 100psi. Maybe right around 95-98psi.

I then set the minreg pressure to 225psi (using my customized tool kit) and also set my dwell to 10 (4 LEDs on the Speed 05).

I then put the Evolve Cap back on and set the LPR to about 65psi. Next, I adjusted the blow back so that there was none using the Newton Volumizer. This took about 10-20 shots to fine tune it.

Check my velocity and it was at 142fps! I tried increasing the minireg to raise velocity but I could not. I had the Volumizer set screw in too much. So I backed the set screw out and my velocity was at 333fps. I then backed my pressure down to get a velocity of about 285-290fps.

I rechecked the blow back and there was a little so I screwed in the Volumizer adjuster screw VERY LITTLE and the blow back was gone.

Rechecked the velocity and it barely change. It still hung around 280-290fps.

Then the big test. I put my Halo B on and filled her up. Took a deep breath and started ripping. Guess what happened? The Speed 05 ripped like crazy with NO shoot down. From what I could tell I was shooting ropes of paint into the darkness of my backyard. I had flood lights on but I really want to check in the daytime to actually better see the paint flying.

So, I droped down the LPR to about 60psi and tried again. Still no shoot down. Not even FSDO. Then I ran out of paint. Crap!

So far, so good and I'm real excited. Time to get more paint and try and play with the dwell and pressure to see what will be optimum for my set-up. The LPR still has some noise to it and "kick" at 60-65psi. I am hoping I can fine tune it. The Speed 05 still feels a lot different (for the better because it is much smoother) with the blow back greatly reduced and the lighter hammer.

Looking good!

sharps990

01-14-2005, 10:58 PM

trig i am having the same problem that you where having on my 03 speed

i ran out of air and paint so i cant test it and i dont have a crono but im pretty good at judging fps

im glad that you had success with conquering the shoot down...this kit has made my speed shoot like a trix but i cant shoot more than 2 shots a second with out me being able to throw the balls further than i was shooting them

it has made it much more sensative... and if your settings arnt perfect then you arnt going anywhere.

im glad you conqurerd the shoot down.. hopefully i will b able too

sharps

Trigga Nometry

01-15-2005, 10:12 AM

You are right about the sensitivity sharps! Fine tuning it can be a little bit of a hassle because it isn't just put the kit on and go. As you can tell from my experience, you really have to take your time and have some patience.

I thought I tried every combination before and I could not get it to work. I am not sure if cleaning and regreasing everything did the trick or if I just stumbled on a combination of settings that worked. Either way it is working now.

I just want to see if I can lower the LPR a little to make my Angel really smooth. When I did have the shoot down problems and had my LPR to 50psi, it made a huge difference in sound and movement but I did have the shootdown issues. As Ken said before when Tye was having problems, we might just be trying to use the Angel LPR lower than it was really designed to operate and since every LPR is different (as displayed because everyone has a different number of shims to get a certain psi) some might work lower than others.

I know what some of you are thinking: "Why spend that much money on a kit that takes a lot of time to set-up?" You really wouldn't understand until you shoot a set-up with the kit installed. Smmmooooottthhhh.....

Time to do some experimenting!

Trigga Nometry

01-18-2005, 10:05 PM

Well I did some experimenting and found that I could NOT bring my LPR down below 60psi using the Newtom LPR Cap. No matter what I tried it would not drop. I even added shims, reduced shims, etc. in order to change the LPR psi but nothing worked.

In fact, it feels like the adjusting screw goes in all the way. In other words, I cannot screw it in anymore because it is at the end of the inside of the LPR's threads. So in order to build up the brass part that the adjusting screw hits, I added a thin piece of hardened metal (shimed that too) to give me more adjustment. It still didn't work. I am at a complete loss :doh: . I want the ENTIRE kit to work, not just one part of it!

So, I took off the LPR Cap and set the LPR using the stock parts to 50psi. It worked no problem.

P8ntSlinger44

01-18-2005, 10:13 PM

How about you send that part of the kit back to evolve. There is a warranty on these things you know.

anjordan77

01-19-2005, 09:01 AM

yes, there is a warranty...or send your gun and evolve to me include like whatever shipping is back to you from 23114 and i'll install it. i installed another last night successfully...that makes...uhh..5 now? and yeah some with the lpr you have to screw it in further than flush...try starting with it screwed all the way in...then work it out....you did put the big spring in there right?

but yeah, if you are having problems i can work on it, and if i can't get it right i'll send it off to evolve for you...i'm no mastertech but i do seem to do well with these kits.

i thought you said that you set it up the other day with no shootdown?

Trigga Nometry

01-19-2005, 10:09 AM

Thanks for the offer anjordan77. I do appreciate it. But for now, I am going to wait just a while until I get word if the MT's will install and service the Kits. I live only about 20-30 minutes from Ken Crane at www.performanceangel.com so I'd rather just bring it by there instead of pay for the shipping, insuring the shipment, etc...

The Evolve warranty is listed on their web site as 6 months. If the MT's do not release any information of the kit, then I will ask for either a replacement kit and try again (which I am willing to do, maybe I got a faulty kit?) or ask for the money back.

I do want to remind everyone that this kit is working for most people.

By the way - there is no drop off at 60-65psi on the LPR but I would rather run at a lower LPR since it'll reduce the kick. After all, running a low LPR + low dwell + medium operating pressure is what the kit is all about.

anjordan77

01-19-2005, 10:17 AM

well i'm sure ken crane can "take a look at it" just he can't say that it's supported by wdp as of right now.

BroGrim

02-03-2005, 03:38 PM

anjordan what do you charge to install it? hehe I might do a package deal with my halo too

El Pirata

02-03-2005, 06:38 PM

In my case I paid for the kit and he installed it.

timfactor

02-06-2005, 09:26 AM

hey guys,i just installed my kit yesterdayand almost everything seems to be ok.it chronos fine,dwell8,lpr 50,but im only getting about 1500 shots off a cool 68/45.how do you know what inline pressures your running?

anjordan77

02-07-2005, 09:59 AM

you get what is called a reg tester and plug your reg in and test it ;) or if you are ghetto like i used to be...get a unimount or similar that will vent air...instead of putting macro fitting find a gauge that will fit there...and make sure it goes up to like 300 or so. i think it should work?

or like el pirata said...send it to me ;) i'll test her out for ya.

how's your kit working pirata?

El Pirata

02-07-2005, 05:10 PM

Funny you should ask: http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=36313

corrupt123

02-07-2005, 08:18 PM

mines arriving this week. to be honest, i wasnt planning on spending too much time tuning it. 35-40 psi, dwell at 8 or 9 (shootin a fly) and gas, than i go play. from the looks of it however, i may not get off that easy. no problem, fixing stuff is what i like to do. i am also iun luck however, i am buying what is probably the first used kit to be re-sold, so i am sure that all parts are functioning correctly, etc etc.

now, here is my advice. yuo say you cannot get a lot LPR and low dwell combo, without shootdown. well, as your name is "trigga nometry" i'd say, look at it from a mathematical point of view. (bare with me)

what will cause shootdown? three things,
-not enough pressure to open the valve, i.e. lpr pressure
-not enough valve open time i.e. dwell
-not enough air to move the ball, i.e. operating pressure.

process of elimination. we know that the gun has been run as low as 35 psi, we know it's been run at 35 psi + dwell time of 7 (lowest on the fly) for the sake of, were not pushing the limits, we will give ourselves some cushioning room. aim for a LPR pressure of 40psi, with a range of about 3 psi (preferable over 40, rather than under) and a dwell time of one more than minimum, i.e. on a fly, 8. im not sure what the min is on an 05 speed, but assuming that all dwell times are relitive (dwell 8 is alwasy 8 MS) aim for something in that area, be it 8, 9, or even 10.

because i own a fly, i am speaking off a fly engine. so were it me in this case (and later this week, it vary might be) i would start off as is. dwell time at 8, lpr at 40 psi with a range of +3psi using the evolve cap. than, as per the instructions, my inline at 250 psi. fortunatly, i have a CP reg on my fly, so it will be easier for me to get the inline pressure. shoot. first, i would shoot with regards to feet per second. put the blowback asside for the moment. chronying to around 250 fps (max speed @ my local indoor) once i am at 250 fps, [dwell 8, lpr 40+3] i would make note of the operating pressure. do not be surprised, if it has hit around 300 psi. remember, "low lpr, low dwell, mediom pressure" and contrary to popular believe, 300 psi is medium. hell, i'd say thats even pretty low. from there, start adjusting the blowback. shoot slow, take it easy. i have read the evolve instructions, they say there are two screws included. a "fine" screw, and a "standard" these screws are in regards to the setting of the blowback. they also say, the "fine" screw is the one you would want to be using to get it set nicely @ low or minum dwell and LPR settings.

anyways, once the blowback is dealt with, make note of lpr and dwell times. obviously the dwell wont have changed, but keep your eye on that LPR. now, check your FPS, and check your op(inline reg) pressure.

--- we have now reached the point where this gets really mathimatical, and i appologise for those that hate it. the stage were at now can be described as a parabola. you are trying to find the best of both worlds here is a picture for those that dont know (http://www.np.edu.sg/mscIntMaths/PlnAnalGeom/parab2.gif) the link is just a random picture, ignor the "focus" part. anyways, what were doing is finding the prime pressure, and blowback adjustment setting. the prime setting being, the highest point on the barabola. [return to advice section]

so, this is the tedious part, and if you read the instructions, evolve says plain and clear, it is not easy. take your time, keep adjusting till you're satisified with the fps/blowback combo. the pressure really doesnt make a difference. if it is something incredibly high (which i doubt) than you may want to seek help, but i am focusing on this part now.

so, here is what you've got,
-lpr at 40[+3]
-dwell @ or close to minimum
-fps @ desigred amount
-inline/gallery pressure @ required amount
-blowback @ desired amount (obviously, this is minimum)

only one thing left to do. grab a halo, let her rip. in theory, this should work. you have accounted for all the aspects of FSDO and Dropoff, if you're still having problems here, i am going to lean towards the possibility of a slow LPR or possibly, the ram/hammer, although this is less likely. hopefully, this will have solved your problem, and you can all hail me as the angel god. (yes, that was a joke) if not, my last trick up my sleeve, atleast untill i have some of my own time to start playing with it physically, is try without the newton evolve LPR cap. we know the angel's stock lpr can keep consistant at 31 cycles a second, atleast, it had damn well better be able to. and we know it should work under the circumstances, only problem might be getting the angels LPR down to 40 psi, this also, when done properly should be achieveable. i know someone personally who had his 03 speed (this was a year or so ago) running at 30 psi. mind you, his dwell time was might teens, but no doubt, his LPR was around 40.

last thing i would like to add. keep the gauges on!. obviously, this will be much harder for those with 05 speeds and those w/o any access to another inline reg with a gauge port, but monitor all pressures, all times. hell, before you even start, get to some safe settings, as you said TN, 60 psi dwell 10 and 230 psi? do that, leave the LPR gauge on, and burn her. shoot off a thousand psi dryfiring at top speed, and watch the LPR gauge, is she is choking off, you have answered your question. remember, dropping at 60 psi under high ROF is bad, but imagine under heavier load.... 40 psi, doing the same work. i dont need to explane the rest.

for those who have skipped my post, and boy do i hope atleast a few people read it even though it's way at the back on the 7th page, and spread the word (if it works, which, once again, in theory it should)

but for those who didnt read, i have but two things to say, if you didnt read, do it. read. the second thing, even if you dont read my post, just remember. as someone once said (i really wish i knew his name) the simplest solution is usually the right one.

Trigga Nometry

02-07-2005, 09:04 PM

El Pirata

02-07-2005, 10:05 PM

Kinda of topic here but I bought mine from Andy and was wondering are you guys contacting Evolve via e-mail to get the new seal as well as replacement o-rings until they get the new seal tested and mass produced.

corrupt123

02-07-2005, 11:56 PM

corrupt123 - It sounds like you have a great plan and I must say it is very well thought out!

Keep us posted on your progress. For me, I am currently just going to wait for the new parts from Evolve to get in before I tinekr any further. I have no doubt that Evolve will solve the o-ring/seal problem and the valve portion of the kit will be working flawlessly.

By waiting for the new part, it also gives me a chance to break my 05 in even further. I was checking out the Fac3full article on the Speed 05 where they mention a minimum of 10,000 rounds must be shot before you really should start to mess with the stock settings of about 60-70psi LPR pressure to be sure the minireg is broken in. I am below the 10,000 rounds so I'll use the time to crank up my dwell to the max and give my minireg a good workout before trying the Evolve kit again.

actually, i was really hopeing someone would prove me wrong. can only be perfect by learning from mistakes.

anyways, too bad you wont be doing it, i was really hoping i'd be able to see your results and than know what to expect. however, if i am at all lucky, i'll drop the kit in and be ready to roll. eithor way, i will be posting back next monday, if not earlier, with how whatever i do goes.

*** secondly, i am getting my kit off andy aswell. really, he is a good guy. i believe evolve said the new kits should be ready and shipping in the next 2 to 3 weeks, so eithor way it isnt that long a wait. aswell, if you're blowing out o-rings, just head to a hardware store and replace with what they've got. shouldnt be that much a difference really, and eithor way, for 2 cents an o-ring, you can afford to go through a few before the replacement parts get in.

Twiggy

02-08-2005, 11:38 PM

Do we have to put the lpr up to 100? CAnt we just adjust it from where it is?

Trigga Nometry

02-09-2005, 09:15 AM

Do we have to put the lpr up to 100? CAnt we just adjust it from where it is?If you are going to use Evolve's adjustable LPR Cap, then you have to set the stock LPR to 100psi and then put on the Evolve Cap. After the Evolve cap is on, you will be ablt to externally adjust the LPR anywhere from 0-100psi.

People have found that if they do not set the stock LPR to 100psi, they get terrible shootdown during rapid firing.

Twiggy

02-09-2005, 10:36 PM

Why does that happen? Shouldnt the guage read what the LPR is at anyways? It sounds to me like the guage doesnt even really read the pressure.

corrupt123

02-09-2005, 10:42 PM

the angel's stop LPR adjusts pressure by allowing the distance it can travel, thats why you add shims.

the evolve mod puts pressure on the otherside of the reg, adjusting the pressure, adjusts the pressure. if you have ever seen the other post, or even had it happen, if you screw in the cap really deep, the cap on the LPR side you will get bad consistancy, shootodwn, or just a really low pressure (cant remember which for sure, although im sure it's a mix of all three)

anyways, i havnt completely given you an answer, but theres two reasons as to why the evolve needs lots of pressure aganst it. so that the pressure on the reg piston can be put to use.

Twiggy

02-09-2005, 10:47 PM

I see, so if you put it to 100, even if you screw the cap in too deep it will still do fine?

corrupt123

02-10-2005, 11:27 PM

you lost me there.

the LPR has an overpressure relife valve, right above the foregrip. atleats, it does on the fly, not sure about the 05 speed. if you're asking if you can safely put it to 100 psi, you should be able to, because if it's too much pressure, it'll bleed. no gaurentee, or warentee on my words though.

otherwise, i believe how the eveolve adjuster works, is that the more pressure or space you take/put aganst the piston, the lower the LPR pressure will be, and so when you install the evoplve adjuster, you must set to 100 psi so you have adequite room to lower the pressure. not 100% sure on that but makes sense in theory.

Twiggy

02-11-2005, 12:34 AM

Makes enough sense, thanks.

Speedy_in_Blue

02-14-2005, 03:37 PM

okay, just installed it. Got rid of the blow back almost completly if not all the way. now, my problem is, Dwell any lower than 10, Mini input is about 220, LPR at 50, and TR on 1. If I go any lower than those settings, the balls are litterally hitting each other in mid air. Cause I was shooting and just breaking alot of paint. Thought my settings wornt right, took the barrel off, no paint, no paint in the breach either. Thats when I realized, HOLY CRAP.

Also, not sure if I have it fine tuned quite yet, ran out of paint....

Trigga Nometry

02-14-2005, 03:54 PM

Don't be afraid to up the operating (inline) pressure a little bit more. 220psi is a recommended starting point. You might find that your setup will perform better at a slightly higher pressure than 220psi. You might want to try 250-260psi and you will probably be able to reduce the dwell and not get shoot down.

Just don't forget that you'll have to retune the blowback on the Newton volumizer. When you adjust the Newton Volumizer screw, it is best to adjust is while the marker is degassed. It'll help the o-ring on the valve last longer.

Speedy_in_Blue

02-14-2005, 04:07 PM

okay, just did some more testing. and so far, I am not impressed. sure, its more quiet, but thats about it. Also, just to let people now, my setup is Fly, 68/45 Crossfire, 16in JT .690, Reloader B(didnt know if the barrel or the loader would help any)

Here are my problems:

Kick - still has alot of it
Blowback - just a tad, but I go any lower I might as well throw the balls
Dwell - cant go lower than 10
LPR - 50, any lower drop off
FSDO REALLY BAD

corrupt123

02-15-2005, 11:23 PM

see my post one page back.

see if it helps.

Speedy_in_Blue

02-15-2005, 11:25 PM

okay, got her all fixed up, and all I can say is DAMN!

renrag75

02-26-2005, 04:12 AM

El Pirata

02-26-2005, 06:23 AM

He bought it from his local grainger store.

Dskize

03-12-2005, 12:57 PM

He bought it from his local grainger store.

hey man

any chance of a bit more info - as in thread size

thanks

El Pirata

03-12-2005, 03:29 PM

1/8 npt.

Dskize

03-12-2005, 03:51 PM

1/8 npt.

:cheers:

snoop

03-15-2005, 05:37 PM

i didn't read all these posts.. but god DAMN its §§§§ing hard to unscrew this hammer.. i think mine is ULTRA loctited .. holy §§§§ lol

snoop

03-15-2005, 05:41 PM

yeah firstof all. taking out the hammer lock screw it stripped 2 of my 2mm allen keys..

and taking off this hammer is getting rediculous

Benfrain

03-18-2005, 06:27 PM

I got my hammer off real easy. Just run it under a hot tap for a few minutes first or pour boiling water (as an English gentleman I always have a kettle to hand ;) over it to expand the metal and weaken the seal of the thread lock on there.

crackerjack

03-20-2005, 08:31 PM

I got the new newton kit last week with cup seal for my 05 speed. I first checked LPR psi it was 65 then removed all shims (3) checked LPR psi it was 60. Then checked the mini reg psi on the valve side set it to 300, with input psi of 350 from my Air America A2k tank. Set the dwell to 8. My instructions don't state anything about how to adjust blow back up the feedneck. I also had alot of drop off at high rates of fire.

corrupt123

03-20-2005, 10:32 PM

solve dropoff by making atleast a 200psi difference between regulators. you said your AA is at 350 and your inline (mini-reg) is at 300? should be more like 500>300>LPR

check the first page of this thread, trigga linked instructions, get how to adjust blowback from there.

crackerjack

03-20-2005, 11:46 PM

I found it. Thanks for your help corrupt123.

Shlumpeet

04-19-2005, 07:18 PM

I still don't understand how your supposed to put the lpr cap on.

Trigga Nometry

04-19-2005, 07:54 PM

I still don't understand how your supposed to put the lpr cap on.Here is how:

1. You set your stock LPR to 100psi using extra shims. You manual states how to set the LPR pressure to what ever you wish. You can do this with or without the WDP Tool kit. It is easier with the tool kit but it can also be done with the gauge and cap that Evolve supplies with the full Evolve Newton Kit.

2. Put the cone and then spring in the LPR as depicted in my instructions above.

3. Screw in the Newton LPR Cap.

4. Put the Newton gauge on the LPR Cap and set the pressure to about 50psi (or whatever works for you) by screwing the LPR Cap adjuster screw in (in bring the 100psi pressure down).

Does that help?

Shlumpeet

05-02-2005, 06:40 PM

Here is how:

1. You set your stock LPR to 100psi using extra shims. You manual states how to set the LPR pressure to what ever you wish. You can do this with or without the WDP Tool kit. It is easier with the tool kit but it can also be done with the gauge and cap that Evolve supplies with the full Evolve Newton Kit.

2. Put the cone and then spring in the LPR as depicted in my instructions above.

3. Screw in the Newton LPR Cap.

4. Put the Newton gauge on the LPR Cap and set the pressure to about 50psi (or whatever works for you) by screwing the LPR Cap adjuster screw in (in bring the 100psi pressure down).

Does that help?

Not at all.

snoop

05-02-2005, 06:47 PM

read the manuel about the lpr.. and adjing it... and then if u still dont understand trigga's directions... u might wanna head down to an MT's shop and ask him to do it :).. and watch

Shlumpeet

05-02-2005, 06:58 PM

I just don't understand what you do with those two parts that come with the cap.

Shlumpeet

05-02-2005, 07:03 PM

Nevermind, I got it.

How can you get the lpr out without the tool?

sonicboom141

05-03-2005, 04:56 PM

my set screw on the evolve lpr sticks out way way far but yet its at 50psi, maybe i got a wrong set screw, here is a pic maybe will help you see it..
http://img205.echo.cx/img205/7335/0526vd.jpg

it sticks out very far..

El Pirata

05-03-2005, 06:16 PM

BTW, I fixed your pic link. It is either out really far because it is the wrong set screw or you did not add enough shims to reach 100psi then adjust it down to 50psi.

sonicboom141

05-03-2005, 06:26 PM

must be wrong set screw, im at 90psi now lpr stock and dont have any more shims currently and am set at 50psi. I dont think 1 shim would make that much of a difference so i emailed evolove to see...thanks for editing the pic also

Trigga Nometry

05-03-2005, 06:30 PM

Evolve orginally sent out screws that were too short. Now they are sending out screws that are 12mm long for the LPR Cap. I wouldn't worry about it. Looks like you have a good one.

Major Morningwood

05-03-2005, 06:46 PM

Sonic, don't worry about the shim issue, I too had my 05 speed at 100psi without any shims from the factory. When I added shims it went on out to 120 so I have removed all of the shims before adding the V2 kit. I finally got the thing working over the weekend and man can this thing tear it up. I have a 92/4500 tank and I got 1100 shots out of 1500psi off that tank. I think I am going to go to a 45/4500 at this rate. Got the lpr down to 45psi without shootdown. Make sure you have 300PSI minimum going from your mini-reg into the marker or you may get shootdown Since you have that CP reg it should remain more consistent. I have heard others complain the wdp reg tends to creep, so far no problems here. The screw on the lpr is longer on the newer kits. Mine sticks out about 2-3mm from the front and that is with it running 45psi on the lpr. The exhaust valve screw however is actually further into the volumizer on the exhaust side. Make sure you lock down those set screws or put a drop of green loctite on the adjustment screws. The green can still be adjusted by tools easily and breaks free without heat, however it flows into the threads easier than blue or red and is designed for parts that are already connected as it dries in the presence of air rather than without as is the case with blue or red loctite. Good Luck.

sonicboom141

05-03-2005, 10:48 PM

awsome i just wanted to make sure the screw wasnt long enough. I have i believe i counted 5 or 6 shims in there, and its only at 95psi, so im going to put 1 more in there and it should be 100psi perfect.
Im at exactly 50psi, and i dont notice any shootdown every ball seems to go perfect running about 240psi (dont have a chrono just guessing the speed)
i just have crappy paint and my scuba only has 1200psi left!!! need to go fill that and get some good paint

but....IM PLAYING SATURDAY!!!! woooo and sunday woooooo
i cant wait to rip some faces, last time sucked i had crap gun haha

Shlumpeet

05-06-2005, 07:23 PM

How can you get the lpr out without the tool?

...

October Fly

05-07-2005, 11:55 AM

"(dont have a chrono just guessing the speed)"....Now, I have never seen these kind of skills?

APachon

05-07-2005, 12:29 PM

This kit is only for the Angel Speed 5? not the G7?

~A

DrKillgore

05-07-2005, 12:34 PM

no g7 kit, not as of now at least

APachon

05-07-2005, 12:44 PM

thanks for the info Dr Killgore.

JesseB

05-12-2005, 04:29 AM

...
I have tried using a Halo screw and it does work. just be gentle pulling it out or §§§§ will fly all over the place :P

APachon

05-12-2005, 09:43 AM

Trigga, amazing pics. How much of a diff does it make?

~A

Stanger91

05-26-2005, 12:24 AM

Trigga Nometry

05-26-2005, 01:28 PM

I just got my evolve today and put in on with no problems. It works awsome. Too bad you had soo many problems at first. I'm running 50 LPR 2 leds for dwell and what ever pressure gets me to 260 FPS on my 05 speed.Glad it is working out for you. I am quite sure you will be very happy with the results.

They changed a couple of designs on the kit so that it is much more reliable. For example, they changed a part in the LPR Cap so that the flow is increased and of course they changed the cup seal.

Stanger91

05-27-2005, 03:13 AM

Acctually I though I had it right. It was fine over the chrono but then I when and played a game, NO distance at all. I rechecked everything and it was only shooting 140 FPS. Then I realized I needed to tighten the set screws. I suck at the set screws.

October Fly

06-06-2005, 10:11 PM

Trigga Nometry

06-07-2005, 08:23 AM

What if.....What would happen if you install the Cobra valve and Cobra bolt in an 05 Speed? Then, you installed the evolve kit in addition to the new valve and bolt. Any thoughts on this Trigga? Thanks in advance.I am pretty sure that the Cobra valve has different (larger) air passages than the stock WDP valves which means that the Evolve kit would probably not fit in the Cobra valve because it would not seal the Cobra valve. The Cobra valve is also a "one piece" valve and has the spring inclosed in the valve itself. That is completely different than the WDP valve which is what the Evolve kit is designed for.

I don't see any reason why the Cobra bolt would not work with the Evolve Kit. That should work just fine.

October Fly

06-07-2005, 09:05 AM

Makes sense....thanks Trigga!

robdamanii

06-09-2005, 10:03 PM

OK, I just put the Evolve lite into my fly, and I'm curious....

Where did you start trying to adjust for blowback? I started the screw all the way out and ended up having to turn in MOST of the way in. This seems like it's extreme to me.

And it seems like it's eating air a little bit more than normal, although to be fair, there was only about 900 PSI in the tank, and it's still above my gauge reading of 275 )inline pressure) and that was a full pod and about a pods worth of dry fires.

Dwell 8, LPR around 60, CP reg at about 275.

Trigga Nometry

06-09-2005, 10:07 PM

I started the same way with the screw ay out and then very slowly screwed it in during each adjustment. As long as your blow back is either gone or almost gone, you should be OK because the blowback is all wasted air.

Evolve is also stating that the kit is running slightly better at 300psi. You might want to try that too.

robdamanii

06-09-2005, 10:11 PM

Trigga Nometry

06-09-2005, 10:17 PM

So there's no issue with it being almost in or almost out?

And I'm assuming the set screw on the side of the volumizer (long style volum,izer) is to lock down the adjsutment screw, correct? (Stupid question, but I got no instructions with the kit).Nope, as long as the blowback is gone and your velocity is good, it shouldn't matter where the screw is. Each gun will have a different setting just due to the differences in guns and settings.

Yup, that small screw is to lock in the big screw.

escloflowne

06-22-2005, 04:46 PM

P8ntSlinger44

06-22-2005, 04:47 PM

okay weird problem...the screw that holds the ram in place is stripped and the 2mm allen key just spins in the hole, and the 2.5mm is too big

what do i do!!!!!

and i didnt strip it, it was like that!!

Talk to Evolve about that, seams like they should replace the ram under warranty. OR you can drill and retap the ram to accept the 2.5mm screw. If you do that though the chnces are that it will void the warranty.

escloflowne

06-22-2005, 05:27 PM

Th3bLaCkNiGhT

06-22-2005, 11:05 PM

§§§§ sorry i meant hammer!!! stupid me!!!

the screw that holds the hammer in place is stripped and the 2mm allen key just spins in the hole, and the 2.5mm is too big

what do i do!!!!!

and i didnt strip it, it was like that!!

there we go!!!

try ur local proshop...i used to be a very stupid kid and i stripped many screws on my old eclass orracle and took it to may proshop and they took care of it and got the screws out... then i bought some new ones and stopped being a jackass... :clown:

i just put my evolve v2 kit into my a4 today and when i went to take the hamer off of the ram shaft i was expecting a lot of difficulty... however.. w/o me heating or doing anything to it... i could unscrew the hammer with just my fingers... it just seemed weird... had no air left to fiddle w/ it today so 2morrow is the day that ill tinker and make this bad boy work like the beast it should be....

let u know how it goes after a few hours of tinkering..

:worthy: [Th3bLaCkNiGhT]

Trigga Nometry

06-23-2005, 08:22 AM

If you stripped the screw holding in the hammer you can probably just sent the ram/hammer assembly off to an MT and have them remove it for you. I am sure they have the capability but you should ask them if they'll do it for you first.

You can also run to your local hardware store and ask for a tool to remove the stripped screw, bring the assembly with you to show them. If they know what they are doing, I'm sure they'll help you out.

Just remember to get another screw to replace the stripped one.

escloflowne

06-24-2005, 03:09 PM

should i grease the delron hammer? or just the ram?

Trigga Nometry

06-24-2005, 03:15 PM

should i grease the delron hammer? or just the ram?No need to grease the hammer at all. In fact, it will hurt the Delrin because Delrin does not need lube (can swell when oil or lubed) and in this case the hammer do not slide on anything and is only used to hit the valve stem.

Just lightly grease the o-rings on the ram and you'll be good to go.

escloflowne

07-01-2005, 03:14 PM

another question!

in the manual it says to set my inline to 300psi and then adjust the velocity with the volumizer...is this how i should do it because i was reading that you should reduce kick and blowback with the volumizer on this thread??

escloflowne

07-04-2005, 06:05 PM

well go mine working thanks to your thread here...so thanks!!!

lpr:42psi
dwell:9
225psi input

with no blowback at all and no kick..AWSOME!!!

Trigga Nometry

07-04-2005, 09:25 PM

well go mine working thanks to your thread here...so thanks!!!

lpr:42psi
dwell:9
225psi input

with no blowback at all and no kick..AWSOME!!!Sweet! Glad it worked out for you.

I actually just got done modifying a kit for my G7. Just curious to see how it works in there. Going to test it out tomorrow. I got the Evolve V2 valve and the Evolve LPR cap installed.

Will it help the G7 (like it needs it, lol)? Who knows, but it's fun to mod and try things out.

escloflowne

07-05-2005, 04:14 PM

I thought you couldnt get it working on your speed??

Trigga Nometry

07-05-2005, 07:51 PM

I thought you couldnt get it working on your speed??Could never get the Evolve LPR cap to work on the Speed 05 but since I have learned how the WDP LPR works, I am sure I know what I was doing wrong.

However, I just got done testing out the Evolve LPR and Evolve Valve on my G7. The Evolve LPR seems to be working great when dry firing and looking at the gauge. When at 45psi, the LPR does not drop below 35psi or so.

The Valve is causing me issues because it was used and the valve's seat was set for the previous owner and I cannot get it to fully seal on the G7 but it does indeed work.

Will test with actual paint this week and start a new thread to let those interested see the results as to if it improves anything on the G7 or not.

Oh yeah, the valve was modified to fit the G7's valve guide but I did not use the Evolve hammer since the stock G7 is light enough already.

dangerous pb freak

08-08-2005, 12:16 AM

See the bottom of this first post for a downloadable Adobe PDF File of these instructions.

UPDATE FOR THOSE NOT WANTING TO INSTALL THE KIT YOURSELF: Ken Crane posted this on the AOG:

The kit can now be purchased at Performance Angel (link to product) (http://performanceangel.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=273&cat=0&page=) and also Fix My Angel (link to product) (http://secure.fixmyangel.com/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&products_id=437&osCsid=).

I recently installed my Newton Evolve Angel Valve Kit (http://www.evolvepaintball.com/other.php) in my Angel Speed 05 and I thought I'd attempt to write up exactly how I did it. I figured that it might help others install the kit or help those who might buy it see what you'd have to do if you install it yourself. I pretty much followed Evolve's instructions (you can see them HERE (http://www.angel-owners.com/showpost.php?p=308753&postcount=13)) step-by-step but my instructions will include pics.

OK, here we go!

Before we begin - you will need the WDP Tool Kit (http://www.performanceangel.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=117&cat=60&page=1) to properly install the Evolve Kit and also some WDP Love Grease or Force Grease (http://secure.fixmyangel.com/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&products_id=102&osCsid=5ae7553196dc437f839db1ff662db988). Evolve supplies you with the Ram Removal Tool with the purchase of the Evolve Kit but you will still need the WDP Gauge Tool and WDP LPR Removal Tool. The WDP Tool Kit can be purchased at any of the stores listed at www.angellforce.tv under STORES (http://www.angelforce.tv/stores.html).

My stock Speed 05 just before it "Evolved", it doesn't even know what it is in for!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/001.jpg

Here is the actual kit and instructions:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/002.jpg

The first thing you have to do is replace the stock "heavy" hammer with the Evolve light weight hammer. So, you remove the back plate to expose the back of the Ram. That is the Blue thing seen here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/003.jpg

You use the Ram removal tool (see on the right), to get the Ram and Hammer out of the Angel. To do this, you insert the tool into the ram and turn the tool counter-clockwise. This turns the Ram on it's threads and when you pull it out, it looks like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/004.jpg

Then you remove the locking screw that holds the stock hammer on. The screw is very small and be very carefully not to loose it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/005.jpg

After you remove the locking screw, the hard part is removing the stock hammer from the Ram Shaft. You should use a pair of soft-faced pliers. Be very careful not to damage your ram shaft in any way! I didn't have any soft faced-pliers, so I improvised and used some rubber along with my vise-grips. I was very careful not to damage the ram shaft. I also used a wrench as leverage to turn the hammer off the ram shaft. The hammer is threaded:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/006.jpg

Then you install the Evolve light weight Hammer on the ram shaft. Before screwing the new hammer on, be sure that the metal part of the hammer is on the red plastic part tight. Mine was a little loose and I addeda drop of Loctite to it to be sure it wouldn't come undone during use. Be sure to also remove any of the red plastic shavings that might be in the new hammer's threads. Mine hammer had some small pieces that you wouldn't want getting into your Angel. Get all the crap out before installing the Evolve hammer on the Ram Shaft. I had some in there that I had to clean out. I used a drop of Blue Loctite to make sure it stays on there:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/007.jpg

You then put the locking screw back on the Evolve Hammer. Use a very small amount of Blue Loctite here too:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/008.jpg

Using the Ram Tool, put the Ram/Hammer assembly back in the Angel:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/009.jpg
I used THESE INSTRUCTIONS (http://www.angel-owners.com/showpost.php?p=301418&postcount=1) by Ken Crane to adjust my Ram again. You have to re-adjust the Ram once you remove it.

Oh yeah, obviously, degas the marker at the proper times during the install.

You then have to get the LPR up to about 100psi before installing the Evolve LPR Cap. So it's a good idea to see what your current LPR is running at. Gas the Angel up and fire 5-6 dry shots to equalize the LPR pressure and make sure you have the Tool Gauge on when you are doing this because that is how you'll read the pressure. As you can see, my LPR was stock from WDP at 65psi:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/010.jpg

So if each shim is about 5psi, I have to add about 6-7 more shims to bring it up to about 100psi. People have been reporting that if you do not bring the stock LPR up to 100psi, you may experiance shoot down during rapid fire.

So I'll have to remove the LPR to add the shims. Get out your LPR tool and get ready to remove the LPR:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/011.jpg

When you screw the tool into the LPR, you then gently pull out the LPR piston and this is what you'll see (you can see the Spring Stack and the brass LPR Piston with the LPR Removal Tool still attached to the LPR Piston):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/012.jpg

You can purchase extra LPR Shims from HERE (http://www.angelparts.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=3917&cat=0&page=1) or HERE (http://secure.fixmyangel.com/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&cPath=22_19&products_id=29). Here are what my extra shims look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/013.jpg

Be careful not to mess up the spring stack order! They go back in in the same fashion as you took them out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/SpringStackOrder.jpg
I ended up adding only 4 shims to bring my LPR up to 100psi:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/014.jpg

Now time to put the Evolve LPR Cap on the Angel. I greased up the brass part that is in the LPR Cap and on the o-ring that you see on the brass part that goes into the LPR Cap. I even lightly greased all the Newton parts to be sure that everything would be smooth. Here is the order in which it goes in:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/015.jpg

Screw the Evolve Gauge on the LPR Cap and then adjust your new LPR Cap to 50 psi by using the adjuster screw on the front of the LPR Cap. Fire some dry shots in between to let the pressure equalize. Here is what I got:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/016.jpg

Be sure to tighten (not over tighten) the silver flat-head screw that are on the LPR Cap. Some people have had them fall out. Good thing to check them from time to time to be sure that they do not loosen over time.

Be careful not to loose any of the very small o-rings on the Evolve Gauge or on the screws that you remove to put the gauge on. Here is what the Evolve gauge looks like no the Evolve LPR Cap:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/017.jpg

Next you want to install the Evolve Valve. You remove the exhaust cap and pull out the stock valve parts. The stock parts are see on top and the new Evolve valve parts are below it in this pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/018.jpg
See that small spring that goes into the Newton Volumizer before the rod goes in? Be sure that you do not already have one in there. Some kits have some with one small spring already there. You only need one. The kit does come with an extra spring for later use so you will see two in your kit.

Be sure to apply grease to the two o-rings that are on the Newton Valve! This is very important because some users are having problems with the o-rings getting damaged. The Kit also comes with two spare orings just in case you do have a problem.

As you see, you still use the WDP stock valve, you just use the new seal that Evolve gives you. You then follow the Evolve instructions to eliminate blow back. I have not done this yet. It's too late right now. The one thing that is hard is trying to guess at what your minireg is set to. Evolve says to set it to 220psi to then reduce blow back. You adjust the blow back by screwing in or out the front screw on the Evolve volumizer.

Here is my Evolved Speed 05:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/Evolve%20Kit/ne.jpg

Please add to this so we can build a real helpful thread in installing the kit.

Also - please post your settings that you are using or any other details that I might have left out or have not even thought about.

Let's make this the best thread out there for this kit!

NOTE FOR WHEN ADJUSTING THE NEWTON VOLUMIZER FOR BLOW BACK: Furby has pointed out that he found it best to make the Newton Valve Volumizer adjustments with the marker de-gassed. This helps make the current o-ring on the valve last longer. When you adjust the valve's screw with the valve under pressure, it tends to damage the o-ring and shorten it's life.

mad props man helped alot

Trigga Nometry

08-08-2005, 11:13 AM

mad props man helped alotThanks! Any time I hear that these type are threads are helpful, it makes the effort worth while.

FRED-D

08-12-2005, 08:42 PM

ok, i just got my evolve kit installed from a paintball shop here in Southern California.
I'm wondering if i should mess with my dwell or not.The program is still in the factory settings.also I have not yet rapid fire the the gun. gonna paintball at hollywoodsport on saturday..so i hope this sucker will work.damn...what the heck is this kit suppose to do anyway.i still feel some kick on the gun.well anyway...if you see a guy with a remote coil on the angel....holla at fo sho!!!!

Trigga Nometry

08-12-2005, 08:43 PM

FRED - What LPR did they set your Angel to with the kit installed?

FRED-D

08-13-2005, 09:21 PM

ARC

08-13-2005, 10:37 PM

well today i went out to the field and test the gun. i rappid fire the and the first one that came out was great but then the second and the rest was just falling out about ten feel away from me.i am so pessed-off cuz it was an Angel tech. that did my gun. so i end-up taking my gun apart and putting the stock on it. i left the plastic hammer but the the damn thing still has a good kick to it.i'm about to buy a gun that has ZERO kick. can anyone tell me what gun should i get next..with Zero kicks?

Dm5 or proto but this is an angel site. The angel is so much better than spool guns. I have a Dm5 the gun is quite and has vary Little kick. But on a 68/45 I only get 800 shots. On an angel you get 1200 to 1300 shots. The wireing harness on my dm5 is a pain in the ass. With the micro switch and the board, battery,etc all tangled together. Wires come out sum time. But the angel board has three plugs battery,noid,eye and switch is built right into the board. The speed 05 also hass a place for the battry built right into the board. the angel has no maintenance. The proto has a 4 piece aluminum bolt with 13 o-rings that have to be lubed and cleaned for it to work 100%. It is also hard to trouble shoot what is wrong with the gun. Most of the time its a pain in the ass to find out witch one of the 13 o-rings is causing a particular problem. The angel has no o- rings on the bolt and the rest of the stuff like the ram,lpr and stuff you don't have to even look at that stuff/ don't even have to lube it. Its maintenance free almost. I hate evolve stuff it never lived up. The angel is the best gun man don't let this stupid evolve thing get you down. ''P.S. YOUR LPR MIGHT BE TOO LOW.''

Angels by design, it is impossible to eliminate all the kick. You still need a significant amount of air pressure to drive the ball 290fps. Air still shoots up from the valve causing the gun to rise. With spool guns the bolt and the air shots straght forword elimanating most of the kick.

Get a g7, The ram assembly allows for vary little kick. And keep it stock, only then you will be