Does WDP do quality assurance?!

[maxout]

First day on the field using the Speed 05, and it was HORRIBLE. Straight out of the box with no setting tweaks done purposefully...

- Hook up macro line. Small leak.
- Drive to the store, pick up another line. Put it in and still leaking.
- Seal on the regulator end cap the line goes in to isn't tight... Reseal, leak fixed.
- Play a game, every other ball chops. Go back to staging and find that the hammer isn't well adjusted. The ball can roll around almost 1/3" between the detent and the hammer. I swear there was a click, but I guess not.
- Pull knob on the back is overtightened so it won't rotate to remove. Have to take off the back plate first. No big deal.
- Reassemble, start shooting. Velocity drops after the second or third shot so balls are about rolling out of the barrel. Turns out my tank isn't screwed in all the way - I'm an idiot.
- Balls still chopping heavily, so I switch from generic Draxxus to Marbelizer. Chopping cuts down. (By the way, the Halo was actually dimpling and cracking the Draxxus)
- Finally able to start playing a bit. NOW THE GUN RANDOMLY SHUTS OFF! Lights are on, Halo on, ball fed, but it won't shoot. I flip the gun off/on which fixes it. It continually happens a few times a game for the rest of the day, which is really bad in the middle of a firefight
- Chrono the gun.. 340 300 310 279 275 274.. Hopefully it was just a fluke...
- Still more chops, check the hammer and it is too far back yet again. No click again. The day is over, so I don't adjust again. Maybe I did feel the click before...
- Still turning off in the middle of a game. It won't even let me turn the eyes off and shoot manually - only flipping the power does it.


So...

I still have a problem with the gun turning off, and recall the thread about the trigger doing it. I purposefully didn't touch any trigger settings and have a fairly long pull with the action in the middle. THe only time I can recreate it is when I need to shoot in the middle of a game.

It is also still chopping a few balls a hopper, even with Marbelizer and good Evil. Good paint, good loader.. I hope it is just the misadjusted hammer. I didn't stretch the detent springs or grease the halo yet.

Velocity still drops off after 6 or 8 shots. How do I figure out where the bottleneck is? I don't have an expansion chamber, and the dwell setting is the default.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? How much paint will I have to waste sorting out these issues? Today really SUCKED and I still have these problems.

Brand new, out of the box, and unplayable all day. This is my fifth gun and all the rest have been ready to go.

[Rover-rich]

Hmmm, sounds sort of like my experience too. I certainly have not had as much experience with higher end guns as maxout has, my other gun was a Spyder, but, I think a my Angel that needs tweeking straight out of the box.

I have a similar ball chop experience as Maxout with my new 05 and Halo B. Initially wrote it off as bad paint, switched to Diablo Formula 13 and same thing. Read some stuff here on the forum and checked the breech closure and no click/resistance. Had to readjust the ram, no big deal, just did it tonight. Hopefully she'll work better in the am. If not them I'm going to turn down the sensitivity of the Halo (drill-the-hole-mod). If that don't work them ARRRRGGGGG!

I'm hoping that I don't have the gun turn off problem or gun won't shoot problem I've read about on these forums. Playing next week with close friends and I can't imagine the grief I'll get if my Angel malfunctions of the field!!!!!

[nolimit2481@aol.com]

yeh ur breech has to be hard to open not just click mine used to jsut click and it chopped liek crazy but know i have to use force to open the breech and it doesnt chop at all

[nolimit2481@aol.com]

o yeh and jsut loosen the pull knob when u take the back plate off and u wont ever have to take the backplate off again
o yeh you have to break your gun in check your dwell and get settings off of here they have some good ones but if your thing keeps doin this try to go to one of the big nppl tourneys and talk to a tech and if not just find any tech they will help u out
and most angels have to adjust there ram out of the box and read up in ur manual it will help you out alot

[Rover-rich]

HARD to open? Really? right now I just adjusted the ram so that I hear a click and very slight resistance. Do I need to adjust more so that I need to PUSH firmly to open/close the breech? Should I adjust it to the point where I almost can't open the breech because the ram is for far forward? Thanks guys!!!

[nolimit2481@aol.com]

i dont mean really hard to open but a lil force should be used
thats how mine is and it shoots ropes

[winter001]

First day on the field using the Speed 05, and it was HORRIBLE. Straight out of the box with no setting tweaks done purposefully...

- Hook up macro line. Small leak.
- Drive to the store, pick up another line. Put it in and still leaking.
- Seal on the regulator end cap the line goes in to isn't tight... Reseal, leak fixed.
- Play a game, every other ball chops. Go back to staging and find that the hammer isn't well adjusted. The ball can roll around almost 1/3" between the detent and the hammer. I swear there was a click, but I guess not.
- Pull knob on the back is overtightened so it won't rotate to remove. Have to take off the back plate first. No big deal.
- Reassemble, start shooting. Velocity drops after the second or third shot so balls are about rolling out of the barrel. Turns out my tank isn't screwed in all the way - I'm an idiot.
- Balls still chopping heavily, so I switch from generic Draxxus to Marbelizer. Chopping cuts down. (By the way, the Halo was actually dimpling and cracking the Draxxus)
- Finally able to start playing a bit. NOW THE GUN RANDOMLY SHUTS OFF! Lights are on, Halo on, ball fed, but it won't shoot. I flip the gun off/on which fixes it. It continually happens a few times a game for the rest of the day, which is really bad in the middle of a firefight
- Chrono the gun.. 340 300 310 279 275 274.. Hopefully it was just a fluke...
- Still more chops, check the hammer and it is too far back yet again. No click again. The day is over, so I don't adjust again. Maybe I did feel the click before...
- Still turning off in the middle of a game. It won't even let me turn the eyes off and shoot manually - only flipping the power does it.

Ok... where to start... hmm.. None of the problems you are experiencing are quality control issues:

-Macroline, just sucks period, this isn't WDPs fault, if its not cut exactly right it will leak, I've gone to steel braided hose and don't worry about it

-Seal on the regulator cap, not a big deal

-The Hammer always needs to be adjusted out of the box, its set the way it is so that it can work well under a variety of conditions, but with Halos it needs to be moved forward because of the force put on the ball.

-Pull knob, no big deal, not really a quality control issue

-Tank not screwed in, not WDP's fault

-Ball chopping: if your Halo is dimpling paint, it sounds like a loader problem. Too much stress is being placed on the balls and they are cracking, this is not the gun's fault, so not a QC issue, try adjusting the Halo's sensitivity

-The gun shutdown issue is addressed in this thread: http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=31591 its a trigger adjustment issue, try adjusting the toe screw so that the gun fires at the very begining of the pull.

-The chrono issue I'm not really sure about, but I am sure there is a simple solution.

-Whats happening with the hammer is that it is loosening up when you fire, a quick easy fix is to set the hammer and then place a small o-ring between the ram and backplate. In the long run you might want to lower your LPR and raise your dwell and maybe slap a volumizer on there


So...

I still have a problem with the gun turning off, and recall the thread about the trigger doing it. I purposefully didn't touch any trigger settings and have a fairly long pull with the action in the middle. THe only time I can recreate it is when I need to shoot in the middle of a game.

It is also still chopping a few balls a hopper, even with Marbelizer and good Evil. Good paint, good loader.. I hope it is just the misadjusted hammer. I didn't stretch the detent springs or grease the halo yet.

Velocity still drops off after 6 or 8 shots. How do I figure out where the bottleneck is? I don't have an expansion chamber, and the dwell setting is the default.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? How much paint will I have to waste sorting out these issues? Today really SUCKED and I still have these problems.

Brand new, out of the box, and unplayable all day. This is my fifth gun and all the rest have been ready to go.

There is definatly light at the end of the tunnel. The gun shutdown issue is easy to fix, check out the thread and adjust your toe screw.

As to the chopping problem, try adjusting the rame and doing the o-ring trick, and also check to make sure that the loader stops spinning when it is supposed to. The vast majority of chopping problems are with the loader and not the gun when it comes to Halos and if the loader is dimpling balls it is a safe bet that it is putting too much pressure on the paint.

As for the velocity drop off, what is your tank outputing at? Lets start there and I should be able to help you out. Hope this helps.

-Chris

[maxout]

Thanks for the good response, Chris.

I expected this bad boy to work out of the box, and I guess I was wrong. I just hope the gun works as well as I expect it to when I'm done!


DETENT
How much play should there be between the ball and the hammer? I just tightened it until I get a solid click, and there is about 1/8" of a rollalbe area between the two. When looking down the barrel I can see about 1/8" of the ball.

AIR PRESSURE
I don't have an air kit, so I don't know what the pressure coming out of the second stage is. It's a 4500 tank, straight out of the box and into the gun. I believe the manual says something like 150PSI. Will adding an expansion chamber help with outshooting the tank (or whatever the issue is)?

TRIGGER
I cannot get the issue to replicate without air/paint, so I'll dry fire and loctite it and hopefully call it a day. I just wish they would have made the gun so this couldn't even be an issue, let alone ship with it like this.

BARREL
I noticed that the stock barrel isn't flush with the inside of the gun when screwed down tightly. I can't get a good enough look down through the neck, but I've gotten part of a fingernail in there. Anything to worry about?

LOADER
I'll break open the Halo and crank it down. Hopefully that'll reduce the force. I just can't bring myself to drill a hole in it yet...

[Talfuchre]

Air Pressure. No matter what give it 400 to 450 into the gun - reg it down so it shoots and FORGET IT. You can put a volumizer on the front to lower the pressure - but it will never outshoot the tank (unless your pressure is not up high enough - or you have a tank that shoots down).

Barrel: If it shoots fine - forget it. I think the majority of your chopping issues is coming from an ill adjusted ram. This causes the bolt to be rearword and another 1/8th of a ball to come into the breech and be cut.

TF

[winter001]

Ram: adjust it so that there is a good solid click and that it takes a slight amount of force to open

Air pressure: what is your tank outputing at? It should be set to around 450 psi, I'm not sure what you mean by an expansion chamber, those are used for CO2, you are running nitrogen or hpa into the gun right?

Trigger: set it to fire at the very begining of the pull and loctite it

Barrel: I'm not really sure what you mean, but I'm sure its fine

Loader: definatly turn it down if it is dimpling paint

-Chris

[Sparco]

A few things I've found:

1.) The three '05 Speeds that came directly out of the box had the ram adjusted but not set to the optimal position. A good rule of thumb I do is to adjust the ram forward to the point where you can no longer open the breech, then back in out a half turn then turn it back in a quarter turn. The ram should always be adjusted to the optimal position by turning in... not out.

2.) I'm a big fan of using dwell in your favor, rather than for the sake of efficiency. I'll take a 10ms dwell and 20bps versus 7ms and 22bps anyday of the week. Especially if it means never having to use my squeegie.

3.) The thread saver that WDP appears to be using on the TOE screw is good only until the TOE screw begins to move, as soon as you break the initial seal then the TOE screw moves with little resistance causing potential problems. It's a good idea to lock that down when you've found a good setting. I prefer to have 2-3 threads on the TOE showing and adjust the wheels appropriately. Most people that have shot my markers agree that with magnets you want a slightly longer pull anyway for maximum rate of fire.

Regarding your other points, most everyone has covered those bases.

[shaq787]

maxout, what exactly do u mean by:
LOADER
I'll break open the Halo and crank it down. Hopefully that'll reduce the force. I just can't bring myself to drill a hole in it yet... ????

and as for the barell, if you remove it from the gun and take the bolt and place it up to the back end of the barell, the angled part of the bolt will fit into the back of the barell. my guess - it makes a seal with the barell when it fires.

[Emmit]

maxout, what exactly do u mean by:
LOADER
I'll break open the Halo and crank it down. Hopefully that'll reduce the force. I just can't bring myself to drill a hole in it yet... ????

and as for the barell, if you remove it from the gun and take the bolt and place it up to the back end of the barell, the angled part of the bolt will fit into the back of the barell. my guess - it makes a seal with the barell when it fires.

on the halo board there is a dwell pot that adjusts the tension the Halo applies when feeding. It really only comes into effect when it's trying to clear a jam up. Doesn't really effect speed of the hopper.