newton valve?

[nyczhenry]

just wondering if anyone heard about the newton valve on pbnation and if its worth buying?

[winter001]

It sounds impressive but its not out yet, so we'll have to wait for all the info

[tye1138]

I just want to let everybody know; I'll be doing a review of the Evolve kit once I've shot a few more cases through it. So far, It's FANTASTIC! The facts are simple:

1 single volumizer with valve rod inside
1 adjustable LPR cap
1 light-weight hammer

You would not think it, but its EASY to install and if done correctly the first time, VERY easy to set up and get working with better efficiency and less kick right off the bat. Stick your finger down the neck and shoot the marker, you won't even feel the bolt. Pressure can be as low as 35 and still shoot perfectly!

The efficiency on the 05 speed stock is around 1100 per 68/45 and thats REALLY hard to get. I shot a CASE through my 05 speed WITH the Newton Valve installed and got 1800! Thats w/o even trying to get it better.

So, pre-order while you can because this is going to be the NUMBER 1 product for Angel owners everywhere. Stop chopping, stop the kick, stop the gas hogging! Make your little Angel a perfect little gat!

Visit www.evolvepaintball.com for pictures and ordering info!

My review AND video will be up in a week!

[mixar]

but the question is... does it make the angel look silly or sexy?

[deamon32]

i was about to get a newton valve kit, but then wdp announced their new gun, and from what i have read the valve and hammer will be interchangeable with the fly... so im not going to buy anything till the g7 comes out

[kurby]

Tru dat

i just saw the newton valve and as the euros would say its uber fugly!

[tye1138]

Ok, so here are the pix:

The first pix is my 05 speed with the kit installed:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/05speedontable.jpg

Here is a close up of the kit:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/evolveonspeed.jpg

Here is the kit apart on a table, from left to right:
Volumizer, Pin valve rod, LPR cap adjuster
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/evolvekit.jpg

Here is my new invention, the JAM bolt PLUS.
This bolt was previewed here on PBnation, here is the final bolt:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/jambolt.jpg

The bolt removes problems like this:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/ballback.jpg
See how the ball is forward and not near the ball detents...

Now look at it, with our bolt:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/balltrapped.jpg
The balls are let into the marker and trapped between the bolt and the ball detents. This removes any motion in the ball when loading into the marker. NO motion = no chopping... and with the Evolve kit running at 35psi, the ball gets almost no pressure against it, this makes it shoot like a timmy.

So thats the story, with the new Jam PLUS bolt + the Evolve kit, your Angel will never chop again. I will have a video up online that PROVES this fact in a few days, PLUS a full review!

[tye1138]

Tru dat

i just saw the newton valve and as the euros would say its uber fugly!

Hey guys, the G7 is going to be $1800 bux and have 1500 shots per 68/45k. The evolve might be ugly, but a speed is $950 + $155 + $60 (jam bolt plus) and you have pratically the same marker. The prototype of the G7 was nothing impressive. It has a wider body, back to the old battery design + why spend $1800 bux on an angel!

[deamon32]

well screw the g7, its ugly, i love my rasta fly, but a rasta fly with the g7 ram, hammer valve, and new pretty glowy eyes will be way pimp

[tye1138]

well screw the g7, its ugly, i love my rasta fly, but a rasta fly with the g7 ram, hammer valve, and new pretty glowy eyes will be way pimp

Rasta is a PIMP marker! Keep it, get the new Jam bolt and get the Evolve kit and you'll be shooting MORE foolz because the Evolve ELIMINATES ALL kick! its like shooting a matrix! Snap shooting and then railing is SOO much easier. The upgrade is sexier then shyt and when you have the money, get it anno'd to match the marker! PIMP!

[terminator]

Does anyone have pics of the clear kit. I want to get a newton kit, but I'm not sure whether I want the Black or Clear, I have a blue 05 Speed. Also, when will this Jam Bolt plus be out, and with a properly adjusted Ram will this really be necessary?

Sorry for bumping kind of an old thread, but I don't want to make a new one.

[Crazy Train]

The clear, or silver dust, would look ugly on a blue 05 speed IMHO. I'd go with a black one so it will at least match the your grip frame.

[Spedracer]

does the newton valve void your warranty?

[kevine]

Good question regarding the warranty. Hey Tyler, I'm interested. Can I "pre-order" it through you or should I order it direct through Evolve. Just not to crazy about ordering from England!

Also, when is your bolt going to be available for purchase? How much?

Let me know. I may just stop by your shop and put a "downpayment" on it.

[tman-89]

no, i dont think it voids the warranty. Evolve has met with WDP to "make the best product they can." BTW, that front lpr adjuster looks seksi.

[Spedracer]

Ok, so here are the pix:

The bolt removes problems like this:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/ballback.jpg
See how the ball is forward and not near the ball detents...

Now look at it, with our bolt:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/balltrapped.jpg
The balls are let into the marker and trapped between the bolt and the ball detents. This removes any motion in the ball when loading into the marker. NO motion = no chopping... and with the Evolve kit running at 35psi, the ball gets almost no pressure against it, this makes it shoot like a timmy.

So thats the story, with the new Jam PLUS bolt + the Evolve kit, your Angel will never chop again. I will have a video up online that PROVES this fact in a few days, PLUS a full review!

how can that be possible? Cause the bolts have to be the same length to fit the gun...it cant be longer. Those pictures dont make any sense.

also, the annodizing on the newton gear looks a little cheap.

[tye1138]

The bolt is spring loaded to compensate for the length

[Sparco]

I need to disapprove the point you're trying to make with the photos of your bolt. Of the 5 NIB Angels we've received, not a single one has had the ball sit that far back in the chamber. See the photos below of a ball in the chamber on a Speed that I received today with absolutely no adjustments. At worst the ball is sitting that far back, there's actually some play in the ram stroke allowing me to further adjust forward thus moving the ball even closer to the detents.

In addition, 2000rds were run through this marker without any adjustments on a ReloaderB, fastest setting, and not one ball was broken.

As you can see, my photos (slightly unsteady camera person) show a completely different placement of the ball in the chamber then yours.

[tye1138]

The paint we were using was very small, to prove a point. The paint your using looks much bigger and due to the paint size, it looks different.

I really don't care anymore because the "master techs" are going to take care of Angel problems from now on and I'm out of the loop. So go ask for help from them and if you don't want my product, thats koo with me.

[Sparco]

So you purposely used a smaller ball to make the initial product look inferior thus making your aftermarket product look like an improvement? So really you're falsifying the product on hand in an attempt to sell a product that is not needed or necessary and make a quick buck?

Actually the ball used in the photo rolled through a standard boomstick, thus I consider the ball to be average. Which is what you look for in a claim... the average for the basis.

I look forward to the tye-less AOG! I'm sure we'll see you back (posting) in 2-3 months.

[tye1138]

So you purposely used a smaller ball to make the initial product look inferior thus making your aftermarket product look like an improvement? So really you're falsifying the product on hand in an attempt to sell a product that is not needed or necessary and make a quick buck?

Actually, instead of thinking all I want is money, why don't you think logically. I use Diablo Blaze most of the time and its a very small paint, like 684. I just happened to notice that with that paint my Angel chopped or barrel broke all the time. This is why I had to come up with a solution to the problem. The pre-existing Jam bolt was not good enough and I still had problems with it. So I re-designed the bolt to resolve the issues.

What is the issue? When your running with the marker, the Empire Halo B reloader goes off with the shaking of the balls. This pushes the paint further into the breech. If you don't dive/run with your maker and use a regular halo, you might not have this problem.

Never the less, the bolt will make sure the ball will never roll backwards in the breech. It works, its tested and I love it! I get more calls per day asking for it then I get for any other product.

[kevine]

Hey Sparco, I can appreciate your input on this subject and your apprehension and scrutiny of a product that supposedly can enhance our beloved markers.

However, I know Tyler personally and I know few people with as much dedication to the sport and improving it vs. people who are out to make a buck.

While I still would like to see the bolt in action for myself, side by side with my Fly (which I know Tyler will someday allow me to do before I buy), I think some constructive input will produce a better thread and hopefully an informative one...for us Angel peons AND the self-annointed "MTs."

I'm not flaming, just trying to make point.

[tgaffner]

Well I have no need for the Evolve Kit. Here are my settings:

LPR- 40 PSI
Reg- 160 PSI
Vol-Larger
Dwell- 7

This is on a completely stock 05 Speed. there is no kick at all and it shoots like a dream.

All I really want is a Cobra Valve and MAYBE.... JUST MAYBE a Cobra V.2 Bolt.

[Sparco]

Kevine... your point is a good one. However, I think you'll agree with me that a lot of 'upgrades' on the market are nothing short of useless components designed to give the user a sense of improved performance. Ironically that ball you see in the breech... that's Blaze.

I believe that my comments are constructive, Tye's initial photos indicate a flaw in the design of the flaw. We all know that a properly adjusted marker does not have the chambered ball sit that far back. Until I provided photos to disprove Tye's photos, he made no mention of the fact that ball choosen was specifically picked due to its small size. I'm sure some users saw that and said... ah ha, now there's something wrong with my Fly and I'm pissed.

I'm merely trying to point out that Tye's bolt is not a necessary component to use your marker. Even with a ReloaderB (which has fed three of my Angels for about a year, problem free). If it's a big seller for him, fantastic! But the general masses need to be made aware that there is no design flaw in the marker and that you can enjoy it without modification, just properly adjusted ram stroke.

That is the true purpose of this forum... to educate and inform, even if it means promoting or demoting a product.

[tgaffner]

Kevine... your point is a good one. However, I think you'll agree with me that a lot of 'upgrades' on the market are nothing short of useless components designed to give the user a sense of improved performance. Ironically that ball you see in the breech... that's Blaze.

I believe that my comments are constructive, Tye's initial photos indicate a flaw in the design of the flaw. We all know that a properly adjusted marker does not have the chambered ball sit that far back. Until I provided photos to disprove Tye's photos, he made no mention of the fact that ball choosen was specifically picked due to its small size. I'm sure some users saw that and said... ah ha, now there's something wrong with my Fly and I'm pissed.

I'm merely trying to point out that Tye's bolt is not a necessary component to use your marker. Even with a ReloaderB (which has fed three of my Angels for about a year, problem free). If it's a big seller for him, fantastic! But the general masses need to be made aware that there is no design flaw in the marker and that you can enjoy it without modification, just properly adjusted ram stroke.

That is the true purpose of this forum... to educate and inform, even if it means promoting or demoting a product.

I have an 05 Speed with a Ram that I set (I know my way around Angels) and I know for a fact that it has been doen correctly. I also use Blaze and I can tell you right now that my ball does not sit that far back. In fact, it stays about 1mm behind the Ball Detents.

[kevine]

Thanks for the comments and clarification Sparco. I agree. I don't think there is any part that is a necessary component for Angels. Especially today's Angels. I used my IR3, A4 and now my Fly pretty much out of the box. Some minor adjustments but nothing else. Just air it up, grab some paint and I'm rippin'.

However, I think the issue of the placement of the ball in the breech is being blown out of proportion. Whether an aftermarket part is "better" is dependent on so many factors. Sure, there are some parts that can be universally argued to help with anyone's marker.

Based on reading so many threads about different so-called upgrades, I truly believe it is based on factors such as paint, marker set-up, air flow/efficiency, loader, temperature, etc. I don't think any part, including Tyler's bolt is the end all be all part. It's just another part that can potentially reduce chopping. That's assuming you have a problem with chopping in the first place, and assuming that your chopping problem is due to ball position in the breech.

Despite my rhetoric regarding upgrades and "making a better mousetrap," I'm going to give it a try. If it improves my marker (or not), I'll post it. Hopefully, I'll have the evolve kit and bolt by the end of December.

As for the ball position in the breech...it made me really curious so I dropped a ball (Chronic) into my breech and took a photo....here it is:

[Sparco]

As for the ball position in the breech...it made me really curious so I dropped a ball (Chronic) into my breech and took a photo....here it is:

There ya go, your ball position in the chamber appears to be the same location as mine (give or take). So curious... have you had any problems with your marker?

[SunTzu]

hello
after reading a few posts, i decided to see for myself and in my breech the ball sits in about the same spot as kevine's breech, ram is properly adjusted, and using severe tempest.
I had some probs this weekend but i acclaim that to the weather conditions, almost freezing.
Now the difficulty i cee is that no bolt can get the ball up to the ball detents, unless its sticking halfway into the breech.
Why has noone ever tried to use 4 detents instead of 2, so the ball rests in between the center of the 4, wouldn't this be a solution. Dunno, was just thinking about this

[kevine]

Something I did not include in my previous post. I have no idea if my ram is properly adjusted. I'll admit it. I just shoot the thing. I take it to my local tech if there's a problem. So if you read any of my posts, I don't want anyone to incorrectly believe that I know a lot about setting up my marker. It shoots, I play. It doesn't shoot...I get it fixed!

Sparco - I have had NO problems with my marker except the one time I incorrectly adjusted my trigger. Sure, I chop occasionally, but I'm positive it was the paint. Cheap or old or both!

Actually, I just shot a hopper of that Chronic through my gun this past weekend. It's from NPPL SD and it's been sitting in pods in an ice chest in my garage. It's been cold as $hit where I live. Some balls were breaking in the barrel, but no chopping.

[kevine]

Hey SunTzu - interesting recommendation. Would the rear ball detents then be mounted in the breech behind where the ball would drop in? This would keep the ball in the breech a little more forward and directly under the stack. Not sure though how this would affect the action of the bolt when it moves. :notsure:

If there's a machinist out there that would like to tinker with a spare breech and an extra set of detents!

One problem I see is that it probably would not be the smoothest looking gun since you'd see the detents on the outside of the breech. But if it works!

[pimpinsaylor]

so is this a wdp product or not

[winter001]

nope, neither the newton valve or the jam bolt plus is a wdp product

[tye1138]

hello

Now the difficulty i cee is that no bolt can get the ball up to the ball detents, unless its sticking halfway into the breech.

My bolt is spring loaded and goes past the breech door to fill the 4mm gap. This pushes the ball further forward and gives less breathing room for the ball. This removes chopping and barrel breaking PLUS pushes the ball forward instead of slamming into it, which makes the marker more accurate in some ways.

[jimjim]

From what i gather the new ram on the G7 will move the ball approximately 3mm further down the breach.

[sloppy75]

this picture is taken from feed neck.
it's a month old force fly

http://home.comcast.net/~sloppy75/jam02.JPG

I do agree that tye's picture might be little extreme but check the next picture out! this was taken from barrel side looking at the face of the bolt. (fed by reloader B)

http://home.comcast.net/~sloppy75/jam01.JPG

see that 2nd paint is overlapping the 1st paint? I am not trying to bring our superior marker(I am scared to put any other adjective) down but when i saw this, i was freaked out! so i was out looking for a solution, and i found about jam bolt. I don't have excessive chopping problem but i certainly do have chops, more so compared to my buddy's shocker w/halo B. I and my friend usually share a case and when i got a cheap GAP paint, I was chopping every other ball where i gave up on first hopper, but he managed to run whole hopper with 0~2 chops. of course with better paint, it gets better, I get like 1 to 5 chops in a case. is this caused by 4mm gap? I don't know. It may just need a tune up(i got it on october and seen field 3 times and it was chopping since new) or it could have been just a cold wether(50~60*F). well at least i think the jam bolt is a lot more convincing then hyperstar venturi bolt for tippmann(yes, I bought it.. 2 of them hoping it to be more accurate).

well the point is, I do think it is smart idea, eliminating gap, but at the same time i also believe that the finest engineer working for WDP would have figured out if this would cause a problem. :worthy:

[Sparco]

With a properly adjusted ram I could see the next ball when looking 'down the barrel' but not to the extent in which your photo indicates. I'll try to snap photos of what mine looks like in a similar scenario. It's been my experience that a properly adjusted ram stroke may still show some of the next ball but that doesn't automatically mean you're going to start chopping.

The issue becomes difficult to identify entirely, due larger by the fact that there are three areas that can influence a ball being broken in the chamber:

1) Loader
2) Ball
3) Marker

While it's possible to solve 1 & 3, it's not as cut and dry with #2. A perfect bag of hellfire and just one ball that's imperfect and BLAM you've now ruined the rest of that hopper due to a potential broken ball. Is it the marker's fault? Is it the loader's? Perhaps blame it on the paint?

That's my biggest problem with setting up markers, you can take hours configuring a marker with finest components and so on but in the end you stay can be influenced by your loader or by the paint you shoot. Have I broken paint with the Newton kit I got to demo... yes. Was it the kit's fault, probably not. The fact is, every marker is going to break paint but there are numerous steps you can take to ensure that you stand the best chance of keeping your squeegee in your pocket. I've yet to speak with everyone from Karnivor owner to DM5 owners and a Fly owner that has never broken a ball in their marker (be it in the barrel or the marker). If they say they haven't, it's because they haven't put enough paint through it to let the law of averages take hold.