(renamed again) flys only shooting 12 bps

[corrupt123]

ok, get a drink and snack because this will be long

the other day (more like 5-6 days ago) i recieved my fly. Red Dust, in a sealed box. i couldnt have been more happier.

so, i take it home, charge it 2 times that night, and next day im bouncin off the walls i wanna shoot it. finally i throw on my max-flo and halo, take it to my basement... shoot a bit dryfire... wow, vary fast indeed. ok, so i throw some paint in, 12 bps... wtf? ok maybe the halo batteries are low, they were acting up before, so i go, and swap them out. NEW FRESH batteries in, downstars, 12 bps ... ok, wtf? maybe it's my fingers. i turn up the bounce, no luck, (hit 13/14 tops)

ok, well i'll speed this up a bit. later that night ii found the thread (which was going on it's 12th page) about others with the same issue, i write down EVERYTHING recomended, twice, and wait patiently till today when i took it to the field.

at the field, i have unlimited air and paint . so im doing a lot of fiddling, DWELL, TR, even changing the modes. NO LUCK. it juist wont break 13 bps with the eyes on. i've cleaned them, and everything, this is not an understatement, there isnt anything i havnt tried. i tried two halos, neithor had any luck, tried both halo's on full auto (should have topped out at 15 bps) but i hit 14... ok so im getting pissed.

lucky me, the only MT in canada works at the shop (badlands toronto) and whaddya know, he's in today! well, not necessarly in, but he came to the chrony and was shooting a little bit with his flied-speed. unfortunatly i didnt know who he was, eithor way, i immidiatly rushed into the chrony booth and asked if i could borrow his halo for a quick sec cuz my fly was acting up (it was an empire halo)

ok, so some paint's thrown into the halo, and im all excited. up to this point, i seriously thought it was the hoppers. i start shooting and my hear sinks, it sounds just as fast. i put it safe and cehck the ROF on the board... 13 bps... WTF ? so i call the guy in (i have yet to realize it's trevor) and ask him to try, after what i just saw him do with his speed, i KNOW that with his hopper and fingers, it'll have to work. he shoots about half the hopper, at the same speed as me (about 13 bps) and looks a little weird. i quickly tell most of the above to him and ask him if he knows the MT, ofcourse, he laughs and explanes how he is the MT. ok, so now im happy, my gun is in the hands of an MT, and he'll be able to give me a quick diagnosis. ghe asks for another pod of paint to which im more than happy to give. he shoots it off and immidiatly tells me he wants me to bring it in to be looked at. it should be shooting MUCH MUCH faster he says. he's on his way home, but before he leaves he does the "eye test" with pass's every time, this puzzles him (and me) more, so he says to bring it in sometime soon.

ok, so that's out of the way. it is noew agreed that there is something wrong with my fly, which is affecting the ROF, and it is not the hopper, or the fingers.

furthermore, i remember reading something on these forums, a sort of "test" ... the gun is designed not to fire if there is soemthing in the breech when it's in demo mode. so i put it in demo mode, drop a ball in the breech, no shots. ok, so the eyes ARE working... or so i thought. this time, i instead start ripping on it (in demo mode) and drop in a ball while im firing. instead of stopping dead in it's tracks, like it should have when it saw something in the breech, the angel FIRED the ball. i tried this several times, everytime i dropped it while i was firing the ball would be shot, but if i put in the ball than started pulling the trigger, it wouldnt shoot.

now, at home, 2:54 am, my fly in peices infront of me, i start to look at the new aspects and try stuff. from the looks of it, the eye SOCKETS are lined up perfectly, atleast from what i can tell. (the eyes are removed at this point) so i figure for kicks and giggles, i'll try pointing the eyes at eachother without them installed. so my gun still in peices, i plug in the battery and eyes. turn it on, and put it into "eye test" mode. what happens next is the part which has made me post most of all, something quite peculier (sp?)

i put the eyes about 1/4 inch apart (roughly 3-4 MM for us canadians) and than turn one away, screen reads "pass" . i start moving the eyes further apart, and it's still passing, at this point, im alighing and unaligning the eyes without even looking at them, im just watching the pard. after my last "pass" i look back at the eyes in my hands. they're not even on the same level. with closer inspection, i can have the eyes "pass" the test, without them even 100% aligned... it's as if one eye is braudcasting the beam over an area, and so long as the second eye catch atleast part of that beam, it'll "pass" this may be hard to understand, so let me put it in perspective.... imagine there is a string between the eyes, normally, i would have thought this string must be straight (taught) in order for the eyes to see and read clearly, but they were "pass"ing the test when the string was arched, not ooo arched mind you, but still fairly arched.

im mind boggled as to what could be wrong with my gun (whats slowing it) or why this could be happening, because as mentioned, the gun is out of the box new. the eyes are in perfect condition from what i can tell, the eye ribbon is perfect too (there is a vary slight fold/bend, could that be it? it is VARY slight, less than what's caused by the eye covers on the side of the body if that makes any sense) and the board is version 3.4, no bugs concerning the eye as far as i know.

please, i need as much help as possible, i've got a feeling im going to be charged a fair bit of money to have this repaired (which i shoudlnt... it's new) so a simple or at home solution is best.

giant_squid_slapper@hotmail.com

please feel free to e-mailme or add me to msn if you think you can help or recommend someone to help in anyway.

thank you all.

[rix123]

...ya know something...once Trevor said to bring it in, you should have left it alone and taken it in...

As for the eye passing, possible deformation of the end of the 'eye', causing the beam dispersion? Dunno, I would have tried being more patient and just taken it in and let the MT fix it...

..but I do find your eye test to be interesting. I haven't had to take my eyes out yet, so I can't tell if the ends resemble those of a fiber optic cable, which I do know that if the end cut is not 'perfectly' square, it will cause problems as well... pushing the eyes out with the wrong type of tool could damage/scratch them I imagine...same with inserting them at the factory when assembling.

Whatever, I'm sure the solution to the problem will be found soon, as well as the cause. Just be patient...

[corrupt123]

oh it's still going to trevor, i assure you.

and i can be patient, but for a fly that is 4 days old and a tourney on saturday (today being wednesday) i havnt much room for patience.

[Talon]

Trevor will hook you up and more than likely won't charge you anything because of the warranty.

[corrupt123]

but thats the thing, when he shoti t yesterday i asked him if it'll cost anything, i told him it's brand new and everything, he wanted a reciept (which i do not have) but i do have the warrenty card and everything.

im gonna bring it today, but call first to make sure it'll be free.

[certifiednerd]

I got same problem, so does another person. I can get 15bps with eyes on. I can rip with eyes off. I'm trying to call Ken Crane (Wow, weird store hours) about it but wowb theres alot of threads about this.

Hopefully wdp can figure this out. I want my fly to shoot!


-Kevin

[oCyrus55]

crap like this from wdp made me get a a dm4 over a fly, i think wdp needs to work some things out before the release a product, ya know this is kind of like what happend to angel 4's with the pause issue

[certifiednerd]

I called up impact paintball and they were really nice about it. The tech said he knew what the problem was. However he wouldn't tell me. (WDP too secretive?) Anyway I just mailed it off and hopefully thing whole situation will be resolve quickly.

[certifiednerd]

Just want to add that including the 13page long one about slow shooting fly's i've counted 4 threads all releating to the same problem. There is obviously something wrong. Hopefully it will all be fixed quickly and easily.

[AngelBoi]

Thats really creepy man. Here's my diagnosis-

It doesnt matter how FAR APART the eyes are to detect a ball (WAIT WAIT WAIT, KEEP READING!!). Or arched. The point of the eyes is to detect a interference from the sending LED (or whatever it is) eye. Technically, if the eyes were close together (like in the normal breech position close), the eyes are designed to not SENSE the ball, but the signal LOSS.

I believe that the little eye test you did is unrelated to the real problem. It sounds like your Eye IS broken, but the arch thing is totally different.

Try a replacement eye. Thats prolly ur problem. The eye is taking too long to detect the ball. I dont have a fly myself, but my dad has experience in eye's. I talked to him about this thread, and this was his explanation.


Lemme know what the problem was, id wanna know...


angelboi

[corrupt123]

thank you for your help, and thanks to your dad for his experience.

well yes i know it isnt sopposed to sens the ball but the broken beam, but im just saying.... if the eyes were misaligned enough, it's true that in theory they're aligned enough to pass a drop ball test, but unaligned enough to have the response time they should.

the gun is at badlands with trevor now, hopefully he'll get back to me tomorro with the story. i'll be sure to let you all know.

thanks again to everyone.

[AngelBoi]

kool! Lemme know at TKDude007@hotmail.com

[Foosheezee]

my gun does the same thing.....brand new will NOT shoot over 12BPS

[certifiednerd]

Yes a problem exists... its not the hopper. I sent my marker in to the MT's and they are gonna test the fix. Hopefully if it works they will tell us the problem and what they did to repair these markers.

-Kevin

[BuNkErEd]

i dunno if you have tried this but you might give it a shot. on the fly, dwell plays a MAJOR part in ROF. anything from 12 on up seems to be very bad on the ROF. try lowering your dwell to like 10 or so. i had these same problems, only getting like 15 bps. i then called ken and he explained to me about the dwell and such. jouster has also told me this same thing. i lowered my dwell to 10 and then it shot laser beams @ 23 bps. hope that helps..

[trickytrix]

I hope we get an official answer on what the problem is soon. I've been experiencing this problem along with some of my team-mates for a while and its getting old to say the least.

Not that I'm disagreeing with BunkerEd, but I find it interesting that dwell would play such a major role. My angel shoots great with the eyes off, but as soon as they're turned on the marker pauses, shoots 5 or 6 shots randomly, then pauses again while I'm tapping the trigger.

Corrupt123 - Please post what the solution was when you find out. There are angels in the world without wings!!!!

[BuNkErEd]

well think about it, the less the time hammer is foward, the faster its gonna re-cycle. this came from ken himself.

[certifiednerd]

Thats true, but this is not the problem. You can put the dwell to 8 and it woln't make a difference. Main symptom is with eyes on ROF is super low. As soon as the eyes are turned off the thing rips. Dwell wouldn't do this to a marker.

Edit: I too would like an official response.

[trickytrix]

BunkerEd - I agree that lower dwell = higher capable ROF, however we're talking about milliseconds here, so if I lowered my dwell from 11 to 10 I doubt any difference on ROF with the eyes on will be noticeable, and like certifiednerd said, when the eyes are off the marker rips, which is using the same dwell value as with the eyes off, so I find it difficult to believe dwell plays a part in this particular problem.

[shinnycocker]

I never ran into this problem with mine. I thought I was lucky, but a few weeks ago it started to happen. I went from 17-19bps over the red chrony to 14-15bps. I take care of my equipment I am anal about performance. I wasnt much on Angel's until these came out. A few techs said its the hopper, I dont think so. I can rake my Matrix over the red chrony to 20bps with the same hopper. Something is wrong either electronics or eyes. I am seeing this problem alot even with newer out of the box guns. I am not upset, just a bit dissapointed. They need to pinpoint the problem and make everyone happy.

[trickytrix]

Absolutely! It disturbs me to hear about guns out of the box with this problem. I hope the cure is something simple we're all overlooking.

Oh, in hopes that it may have been the hopper I completely tore down my HALO, cleaned the eyes and every square mm of the thing, and still had the pausing problem. Yes, the marker is set to SFAST. Come on MT's - what's our solution???

[Jouster]

crap like this from wdp made me get a a dm4 over a fly, i think wdp needs to work some things out before the release a product, ya know this is kind of like what happend to angel 4's with the pause issue
Um, you know there was never a pause issue, right? There were five markers involved, and as I recall, four of them either had the TOE screw set too tight (user error), and the last had a hairline crack in the Sensi pad. But people on the board just fed off of each others' panic, and it led to people like oCyrus55 here believing that there was something wrong with the gun when there was not.

Has anyone experiencing this problem gotten anything but complete and immediate help from the MT's? Of course not; WDP and the MT's keep us rockin'. On the other hand, has anyone ever been to the Dye trailer to complain about how many membranes they've been through, or the solenoid wires coming off of the solenoid, or...? They'll just laugh.

Trevor will fix it, no doubt. Something's just misconfigured, or your eyes aren't in tip-top shape. I fixed a similar issue yesterday in all of five minutes.

Jouster

[trickytrix]

This similar issue you speak of....what was the fix??

[Jouster]

This similar issue you speak of....what was the fix??
Two problems--o-rings that were dangling below the feedneck of the hopper, and eyes that were bent oddly. I popped out the eyes, straightened them (hard to explain; just try replacing the eyes if you think this might be a problem), and put them back in, and re-situated the hopper such that the o-rings weren't slipping down.

Jouster

[Frank_McCrank]

i have sort of the same problem with my Euro Angel... I tested my A4 with sensi on and my Euro Angel with eyes on with the same hopper. my A4 shoots as fast as i pull and the Euro Angel shoots at a lower ROF no matter how fast i pull the trigger. i pull 2 times, it fires 1. more or less... its a little annoying when the gun fires slower than you pull...

[AngelBoi]

Spyders....

[corrupt123]

i dunno if i alredy posted, but i got it back from trevor... no luck. all he did was replace the eye harness and update software anyways. tried with my halo and with a reloader on the fastest setting, 13 bps both times. it's odd aswell, when i put it on demo mode after a day of play, it would go into full auto @ 23 bps, even without air and just pressing the trigger once, it would fire the selenoid 23 times a second untill you made it safe (only way to stop it) ... i reset the board and that solved the problem, but this is vary odd, i think my board may be faulty.

monday im going to take it to premiumpaintball in toronto (www.premiumpaintball) they're all certefied, all really good tech, and have nothing but good feedback from the paintball community in toronto. they also seem to work wonders with angels.

[trickytrix]

Jouster - by "straightening" the eyes, do you mean just bending them back to there original position? If the eye test is passing every time, do you still think the eyes are the problem? As far as I can tell my eyes are exactly the way they were when I purchased the gun. I use a CCM low rise, so the o-ring dangling problem doesn't apply to me, but if all I need to do is bend the eyes a bit, could you try to explain exactly what I should be looking for and correcting? I'd like to get this marker up for next weekend as I'll be attending the Shatner game at Challenge Park, and I'd really like to light Mancow at over 20bps!

[Jouster]

Jouster - by "straightening" the eyes, do you mean just bending them back to there original position? If the eye test is passing every time, do you still think the eyes are the problem? As far as I can tell my eyes are exactly the way they were when I purchased the gun. I use a CCM low rise, so the o-ring dangling problem doesn't apply to me, but if all I need to do is bend the eyes a bit, could you try to explain exactly what I should be looking for and correcting? I'd like to get this marker up for next weekend as I'll be attending the Shatner game at Challenge Park, and I'd really like to light Mancow at over 20bps!
Yes, the eye test was passing even before I fixed the eyes, but you could tell something was wrong; it didn't instantly read "PASS" when I occluded the beam with my finger.

With regards to straightening the eyes, as I said, it's rather hard to explain. If you suspect that this is your problem, try popping out your eyes and reseating them. If that doesn't solve the problem, try a new set of eyes.

When/where is Shatnerball this year? If it's nearby, I'll show up and bring my kit to help you out.

Jouster

[trickytrix]

Shatnerball is at Challenge Park in Joliet, IL this year. I'll try reseating the eyes as you suggested tomorrow night and see where that gets me - if I need a new set of eyes, who do you recommend getting them from in order to have them before next weekend? I doubt I'll be able to get a new set from any of the stores around here.

[Jouster]

Shatnerball is at Challenge Park in Joliet, IL this year. I'll try reseating the eyes as you suggested tomorrow night and see where that gets me - if I need a new set of eyes, who do you recommend getting them from in order to have them before next weekend? I doubt I'll be able to get a new set from any of the stores around here.
Ugh. I can't do Illinois. Too far. :(

Any of the sponsors should be able to get your some fresh eyes before the end of the week. Talk to AngelParts.com; they're the closest to you.

Jouster

[jester/NoX]

Same probleme with my eurospeed out of the box : no more than 15 bps with eye ON !!!!!!

☼☼☼☼

[Frank_McCrank]

jester: yeah my Euro Angel(out of the box) is über slow... i shoot faster with my A4 with the same hopper! evo2 btw... even if i set the Euro to bounce like a madman...

[booboo808]

I don't mean to rub it in your face but recently I got a Halo B, and after reading these posts I was relieved to see my Angel shooting at least 18bps with the eyes on.

Hope you get your situation resolved.

[trickytrix]

Jouster - I tried reseating the eyes and the problem still exists. I saw another thread where Ken Crane said that by adjusting the trigger leaf it was possible to jostle the eye socket, thus causing the problem. What do you think? If that's the case, can I fix it, or will I need a new board?? If that's the problem, this situation will only strengthen my love for the microswitch, and my never-ending questioning of why WDP made that trigger leaf so frickin' tight to begin with...

[jester/NoX]

IS there someone here with the answer ???
HEEEEEEEEE WDP, do you hear me :) ?

[jester/NoX]

Official answer by WDP to my mail :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The loader that you have that is not far off its maximum feed rate.
Adjust the trigger setting so you include some bounce, but you may push the loader for maybe another 1 or 2 bps but that will be about it for the Evo.
All the best,
Frazer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For infos, I have a Evo2 zboard !!!

[az'rail]

i too have this problem. i have a holo b with v-board. first i thought it was the batts in the halo. got new ones. then the bat in the angel so i fully charged it. then after reading this post i did every thing possible(trigger adjustments, dwell, cleaned and reinstalling the eyes, reseting the board). i also checked were the eye ribbon plugs in and looked at how far the leaf spring goes and its not even close . still only 15 bps tops. with eyes off i can hit 24bps with no problem. i just ordered some new eyes with the hopes that there's something wrong with them. if new eyes dont fix it then its off to a MT to find out whats wrong. btw its a force fly

[Frank_McCrank]

I know that the hopper isnt my problem. but seriously, there is some kind of problem here or some weird user error.

[trickytrix]

Jouster - I stripped the entire marker down last night. Cleaned/lubed everything (the marker has about 50000 on the counter), and I made sure to do an eye test before I did anything with them. I think I see what you meant by a slight delay. When I dropped a ball in, it did take a second to read "Pass". I removed the detent covers, and the valve-side eye fell out of its socket as soon as I removed the eye cover. I put it back in, and pushed slightly on it with a hex wrench until it felt in place, and would not fall out on its own. I tried the eye test again afterwards, and when sticking my finger in the breech through the bolt entrance, it seemed to read Pass much quicker. Unfortunately I used up all my air setting it back up after cleaning it, so I'll have to get some more soon and try ripping some paint to see if that fixed the problem. At this point my hopes aren't high, but I'm trying to remain positive about this marker...

[Jouster]

Jouster - I stripped the entire marker down last night. Cleaned/lubed everything (the marker has about 50000 on the counter), and I made sure to do an eye test before I did anything with them. I think I see what you meant by a slight delay. When I dropped a ball in, it did take a second to read "Pass". I removed the detent covers, and the valve-side eye fell out of its socket as soon as I removed the eye cover. I put it back in, and pushed slightly on it with a hex wrench until it felt in place, and would not fall out on its own. I tried the eye test again afterwards, and when sticking my finger in the breech through the bolt entrance, it seemed to read Pass much quicker. Unfortunately I used up all my air setting it back up after cleaning it, so I'll have to get some more soon and try ripping some paint to see if that fixed the problem. At this point my hopes aren't high, but I'm trying to remain positive about this marker...
$10 says that fixed it.

Jouster

P.S. Not really. I'm poor. ;)

[corrupt123]

well, i cleaned my eyes with hydrogen peroxide and dry q-tips

i cleaned my eye sockets and entire breech area, i put some tissue behind the eyes so they're reall pushed in and sturdy, they're definetly aligned, unless my holes werent drilled aligned, which i doubt because when i put a toothpick all the way through both holes (eyes out ofcourse) it looks pretty straight.

i went out, and spent 3 days running around town to several shops buying halo parts and building an empire re-loader halo...

shot it tonight in the basement. 14 bps with eyes on, and massive bounce. so, every 3 days and $150 i spend, i gain 1 bps... im starting to get fed up.

the eyes look to be in good condition, and im getting an almost immidiat "pass" with the eye test (about 1/5th of a second delay... in my opinion, thats probably because the LCD display takes that long to change) but the eye ribbon does seem ot have some dents and/or bends in it... could this slow it down, but not enough to notice unless your really ripping? on F/A (full auto) with the empire i only got 14 bps aswell, even though it was capped at 15. however i heard that might be because the gun will always shoot 1 bps slower than the max, no matter what you do....

i know it's not my trigger set-up, as i shot and can shoot upwards of 17-19 bps with they eyes off

i know its not my fingers, because of the reason stated above.

i know its not my hopper, because of the reason stated above.

tomorro im going to play with it, and i mean, play games. i will keep the eyes off, and use my JAM bolt to prevent chopping, which i doubt i'll need with the Re-Loader anyways. than, thursday, friday, maybe even monday depending how busy i am, i'll talk to trevor at badlands and try to get a new set of eyes. does anyone think it could be the board? or the eye covers? im literally stumped. most guns i can find the problem by oliminating other parts untill i find out what gets it working, and what i replaced last... however with a gun thats less than 3 months old to the market, and a gun thats 8 days old into my house, i dont plan on spending what it will cost to do that.

[trickytrix]

I certainly hope that's what fixes it Jouster - this is the end of my line, the last straw, the end of the road...or whatever cliche phrase you want to use. If this doesn't do it, its going to Mark at Impact...

[jester/NoX]

So !!! Someone from WDP or MT who really know the answer about this big probleme can answer or I have to sell my A4 to an Alias ?

[Jouster]

Jester, make sure your "HOPPER" setting reads "FAST". Seriously, though, an Evo has a hard time feeding faster than 15 bps; you might only be able to get 15 off of that particular hopper.

Is there another hopper you can try? Also, make sure it's not your fingers--bump TR to 22 and see if that lets you go any faster. That said, be aware that a Z-board'd EvoII will feed no more than about 19 bps.

Jouster

[Frank_McCrank]

Ive cleaned the eyes and all that other stuff so when i get my halo ill see if it works. if it doesnt im gonna come on here and whine some more :)

But isnt it strange that my A4 shoots faster than my Euro? WITH THE SAME HOPPER! the Euro even have mad bounce!

[jester/NoX]

Ok Jouster, I've already done all like you wrote and all I can say is that my A4 classic "seems" to fire more than my euro !!!

[KEN CRANE]

we are working on a setup to help everyone get a grip on this issue.as i said before most all of this your talking about is due to slow hoppers and trigger set up.i recieved one last night that the consumer could not get to work right and i will let you know how i made out later.

[corrupt123]

i assure you, it is not my trigger or hopper.

i have tried upwards of 6 hoppers, 5 of which are halo's

and the trigger is obviously responding fine as i can hit the high teens, even 22, and 24 bps with the eyes off.

thank you for all of your help ken. Let us know.

[trickytrix]

I hope you have good news for us soon, Ken...

[KEN CRANE]

i need 5 willing people to send me their guns and loaders to address this problem.this will be done at no cost to you and we will throw a little gift your way.your gun must be experiencing what is being said as "i can only get 12 bps".what i want to do is try and set them up myself to help solve this issue.i will except the first 5 that pm me.

[trickytrix]

Not sure if my marker counts, I can't even get 3 bps with the eyes on...

[az'rail]

i have a set of eyes on its way. they should be here by the end of the week, if that doesnt fix i will send it out asap via express mail.

[hotshot538]

Ken, my gun (Black Force 4 Fly) would not exceed 12 bps with my Z code Halo B on AFM05, no matter how fast I pulled. If the offer is still open, I'd like to send my gun to ya to be fixed.

[Jouster]

He said to PM him, guys. Send him a private message. (http://www.angel-owners.com/private.php?do=newpm&userid=57)

Jouster

[KEN CRANE]

i need 5 willing people to send me their guns and loaders to address this problem.this will be done at no cost to you and we will throw a little gift your way.your gun must be experiencing what is being said as "i can only get 12 bps".what i want to do is try and set them up myself to help solve this issue.i will except the first 5 that pm me.


ok guys we have more than 3 people that are having this issue.we cant help unless you work with us.if you have an issue that isnt related to setup you wont fixit unless we find the problem.so we need 2 more people willing to send in their gun and hopper to take care of this.i was able to set up 2 yesterday that came in with 12 bps and left shooting 21 so with 12 pages of this issue lets get going!!!

[Frank_McCrank]

i hope its an easy fix.. no master techs here i norway...

[trickytrix]

No offense Ken, but last time I sent a gun out it never came back (long story), so I'll be waiting in the corner until you guys can post the definitive fix. Thanks

[jester/NoX]

I can't send mine because I live in France ;(

[can2boy]

Thanks for the POST TrickyTrix. I'm so happy to catch your message this morning. I'm actually just about to walk to Fedex right now to send my angel fly with my halo b v35 to KEN at Performance Angel. Now that you let us know, I will not be sending anything out then cause this is a $1300 gun. I'm not about to get more aggravation from this. I'll wait for the fix then or just drive an hour to Impact Paintball and hand deliver the items. I owe you one bro!

thats ok jim is aware what we are doing

[trickytrix]

can2boy - just to clarify my post, the last time I sent a gun out, it didn't come back - I didn't send the gun to Ken - I just wanted to clarify that I didn't get my marker back because I'm pretty darn sure UPS stole it

[can2boy]

OK. That's cool. Thanks. Sorry Ken. My apologies for jumping to conclusion quickly.

[KEN CRANE]

ok guys we have more than 3 people that are having this issue.we cant help unless you work with us.if you have an issue that isnt related to setup you wont fixit unless we find the problem.so we need 2 more people willing to send in their gun and hopper to take care of this.i was able to set up 2 yesterday that came in with 12 bps and left shooting 21 so with 12 pages of this issue lets get going!!!

jouster please stay out of this thread i have a reason for doing what i am doing. thanks

[rebelace12]

I am sendin mine in soon ken. Unless you can help me fix it on the phone. I tried resetting my eyes and everything and now i only hitting 14bps.

[KEN CRANE]

let me explain myself.when we the mts see a trend we try and root it out.we seperate the hype from the facts and try to make a reasonable decission.at that point wdp requires facts before we bring it to them.sort of like ok we have a leak in the water pipe.we need to find out where and why the pipe is leaking and how can we fix it.no "i think its the eye logic" "no i think its the eyes not aligned"or "no its the trigger or dwell ect. does not help.we need facts and guns in our hands so we can scientificly duplicate the problem over and over and then fix it with one fix.so please guys with a tech class under your belt just relax we have this one under control.no offense but its just making things more cloudy.i just didnt know any way nicer to say it.

[rebelace12]

Ok im sendin mine in this week probly.

[jester/NoX]

In any case, I hope to read the issue quickly :)

[trickytrix]

Apparently my post was no good - it appears to have been deleted...

[KEN CRANE]

I realize that Ken, Russ, Moon and the rest of the MT team is looking into resolving the issue(s). They've always gone above & beyond to ensure a customer is happy. All I'm implying is that a forum wide release be made notifying customers/owners/members that the issue is being looked into by the MTs. Because there are a few threads in the A4 Fly forum that address problems and don't state that research is being conducted. So rather than having individual responses made by Ken (or someone else) deep within a thread, unread by many to make a forum-wide release that can be easily referenced by members, techs and mods a like.


i have and if everyone would look and stop making new threads my posts says it all.

[KEN CRANE]

Ken... someone has to respond, Emmit can't handle everything on these boards. Perhaps if one of the MTs publicly addressed the issue, then the new threads would be eliminated. Thus us "tech class" guys don't have to attempt to field questions directed at MTs that go unanswered for days.

I think that's fair, make it known to those that address a solution or (proper diagnosis) is being worked on by the MTs. That really hasn't been made clear, yet and that's why there's all these questions. You know how speculation works... it'll keep spreading like wild fire until someone with a big enough hose puts it out.

We all know that the forum respects and trusts the information you provide... no one else really (without looking at it objectively).

nice try.look thru the threads and you will find i have addressed this issue with a full explanation of what we wanted done.its not that we dont want help and please dont even go there with the comment that emmitt cant do everything.i read every thread every day so please.this is an issue that has been festering and we want it solved.but i cant have 6 threads with the same issue and 9 people telling everyone how to handle it.so from here on out all threads with this issue will be merged into this thread.

[matthepepe]

Here is proof that the Master techs are interested in what you guys are saying and are looking for an answer, that is if you still want proof and that having them post in here and explain things isnt enough

Check out the screen shot of whose online, both master techs currently on are reading this very thread

[AngelBoi]

lol another pwn by the admin

[rebelace12]

ok next daying mine tommorow.

[Sparco]

nice try.look thru the threads and you will find i have addressed this issue with a full explanation of what we wanted done.its not that we dont want help and please dont even go there with the comment that emmitt cant do everything.i read every thread every day so please.this is an issue that has been festering and we want it solved.but i cant have 6 threads with the same issue and 9 people telling everyone how to handle it.so from here on out all threads with this issue will be merged into this thread.

Ken & Matt, I believe you both have completely misread my comment and taken it out of context.

At no point have I implied, suggested or stated that the MTs don't care or aren't interested in trying to resolve this issue. I know for a fact that you are trying to resolve the issue, why... because it's what you all do. So I certainly don't need to have a screen shot telling me that they are looking at the thread.

What I was implying was the "Isn't it about time..." thread that appears to be no longer available in the forum. That thread was inquiring as to the issue and none of the MTs had responded. I was merely trying to direct a MT (preferably you Ken) to the issue so you could put out another fire.

I was actually trying to be helpful on the issue, not attempting to "start something" that everyone automatically jumps down my throat over whenever I post on these message boards.

Emmit's name drop was merely in reference to his response on the thread attempting to calm the members down saying that the MTs were looking into it. All I implied by that was the average user would rather hear that from a MT, not Emmit.

Come on Ken, you know me better than to attempt to cause a problem... especially with you. I'm one of your biggest fans! :biggthump

[corrupt123]

ok i hope i dont piss anyone off by sharing my theory... but could it be the software?

both mine and a guy i know's angels both have version 3.5 . his came with it (JD fly out of the box for about 3 days now) and my red dust which came with 3.4 and i've had about 2 weeks, but has been updated to 3.5

anyways, both are shooting slow. however, ANOTHER guy i know has a modd'd speed. software version 3.2. and it's flying. could it ... would it... be a part of the problem?

[rebelace12]

ok i hope i dont piss anyone off by sharing my theory... but could it be the software?

both mine and a guy i know's angels both have version 3.5 . his came with it (JD fly out of the box for about 3 days now) and my red dust which came with 3.4 and i've had about 2 weeks, but has been updated to 3.5

anyways, both are shooting slow. however, ANOTHER guy i know has a modd'd speed. software version 3.2. and it's flying. could it ... would it... be a part of the problem?

nope i have 3.2

[smasher41]

ok i hope i dont piss anyone off by sharing my theory... but could it be the software?

both mine and a guy i know's angels both have version 3.5 . his came with it (JD fly out of the box for about 3 days now) and my red dust which came with 3.4 and i've had about 2 weeks, but has been updated to 3.5

anyways, both are shooting slow. however, ANOTHER guy i know has a modd'd speed. software version 3.2. and it's flying. could it ... would it... be a part of the problem?

Im gonig to agree, its NOT the software that is hindering the rof. because ive shot a lp3.0's at 23bps, a 3.4 at 25bps, and a 3.5 at 24 bps.

the thing i hated most about 3.0 was that if i pushed the middle button in live it made both my gun and a team mates defaulted to 1 bps no eye, sucks to hit it on accident in a game lol. the updated softwares seemed to fix that bug.

my original fly, which was a early run JD fly a4, ended up having a bad trace (connection) on the eye itself, which caused my rof to max at 12-14 bps. Ken replaced the eye ribbon at orlando and it was ripping 26 bps i was told by my team mate who dropped it off there to get fixed.

Im not saying the dwell is the DIRECT problem of these rof issues, just that out of 5, thats right 5 a4 fly's, all of which out of the box shot around 16 bps tops, immediatly jumped to 21, 24, and 25 bps by lowering the dwell below the 10 ms mark. a dwell of 10-11 ms or over instantly dropped the rof back to 16bps or under.
I take that as a direct variable which should not be overlooked when people are expecting 20+ bps out of thier guns

i explained in this thread ( or was it another, i cant tell from all the name changing) why i feel it can contibute to low rof issues, but not in the range of 12 bps with a v 35 halo.

I just hope anyone that has this low rof "issue" doesnt get a bad taste of angels, and turn to somthing else expecting it to be better, because they will only be kicking themselves later when thye get lit up by a fly owner. :wall:

[Raoul]

My 3.5 shoots fine.

Edit: Never Mind, I replied to an old post.

[outcast]

Hi Ken,
any updates yet?

[KEN CRANE]

Hi Ken,
any updates yet?

we have a handle on whats going on.if you have one of the guns that wont shoot fast please ship it to one of the mts so we can get a look at her.

[dyes biotch]

same prob, eyes off it straight up rips, on well totally different story.

[corrupt123]

well, i got mine back from trevor and the guys at badlands today...

i gotta say, im not sure what or how they did it, but it's §§§§ing flying. they gave it back to me with the tr at 22 so it was obviously bouncing, but i ripped 24 bps the first try. simply amazing. im glad i went through the trouble and kept the fly... to be honest with you guys, i almost went for a DM4.

to date, the only problem i've had sins i got it back was that it's bouncing like mad even with the TR set to 1, but i think thats because they made the leaf REALLY soft. they made it a bit stiffer and tomorro i'll probably fiddle with the trigger settings till i find something i like.

people, if your having problems, send it to an MT or to atleast an angel tech, THEY CAN HELP. if you cannot get it out to them, take a GOOD look at your trigger. try softening the spring, and changing the settings and distances and tensions around that. i dont want to gaurentee anything, or be responsable for anything, but from what i understand.... badlands didnt do anything to my board, software, or eye(s) when they had it. thus meaning it was a mechanical problem. they did however drop the dwell to 10 from 11. unless i gave it to them like that, i cant remember lol.

thanks again to everyone for all their help. and to the rest, dont give up.

[outcast]

we have a handle on whats going on.if you have one of the guns that wont shoot fast please ship it to one of the mts so we can get a look at her.

Ken, can you give us a word on what it is? Is it something that can keep coming back, or just a one time thing?

Thanks!

[titocampos1990]

ive, been looking to buy the 05 speed, it will be my first angel. im also looking at timmies. in the discription it says it uses the same eyeq. if it has the same prob this will really piss me off! this whole issue is really making me reluctant when i look at the 05, or any aced angel for that matter
:nono:

[Jouster]

ive, been looking to buy the 05 speed, it will be my first angel. im also looking at timmies. in the discription it says it uses the same eyeq. if it has the same prob this will really piss me off! this whole issue is really making me reluctant when i look at the 05, or any aced angel for that matter
:nono:
None of the guns that have gone into an MT for service have come out shooting under 20 bps, and that was all free, WDP warranty work. Buy with confidence; even if the 05 Speeds do have this problem (which I doubt!), the MT's have your back.

Jouster

[Catalyst]

well, i got mine back from trevor and the guys at badlands today...

i gotta say, im not sure what or how they did it, but it's §§§§ing flying. they gave it back to me with the tr at 22 so it was obviously bouncing, but i ripped 24 bps the first try. simply amazing. im glad i went through the trouble and kept the fly... to be honest with you guys, i almost went for a DM4.

to date, the only problem i've had sins i got it back was that it's bouncing like mad even with the TR set to 1, but i think thats because they made the leaf REALLY soft. they made it a bit stiffer and tomorro i'll probably fiddle with the trigger settings till i find something i like.

people, if your having problems, send it to an MT or to atleast an angel tech, THEY CAN HELP. if you cannot get it out to them, take a GOOD look at your trigger. try softening the spring, and changing the settings and distances and tensions around that. i dont want to gaurentee anything, or be responsable for anything, but from what i understand.... badlands didnt do anything to my board, software, or eye(s) when they had it. thus meaning it was a mechanical problem. they did however drop the dwell to 10 from 11. unless i gave it to them like that, i cant remember lol.

thanks again to everyone for all their help. and to the rest, dont give up.


Janos, i got my JD back from Trev. THE BEST MT OUT THERE!!!!!!! and my gun is amazing fast toooooo. just to mention on thing though. how do u know it wasnt a combined issue with board and set up. I was talking to aaron from badlands and even he doesnt know Trevors magic. But after trev got his hands on both of them. THEY WERE MACHINE GUNS!!!. Trev is the best in T.O. no matter what. If u are canadian and need your gun fixed dont even think about going anywhere else!!!!!! BADLANDS IS THE BEST

ANGEL 4 LIFE

[dyes biotch]

Played today same problem. Who should i ship this to? I just got my rasta and it has this problem. I feel like my wallet got lighter and my headaches got larger on this purchase.

:doh:

[Jouster]

Played today same problem. Who should i ship this to? I just got my rasta and it has this problem. I feel like my wallet got lighter and my headaches got larger on this purchase.

:doh:
Call any of the MT's, or PM Ken Crane.

Jouster

[Frank_McCrank]

i sent my Euro Angel to a tech... he put a halo on it and he said it shoots crazy fast... i got it back a day before a tourney. i used an evo2 and it shot faster at the tourney than when i shot in the back of my house. i dunno, guess the problem fixed itself, maybe the tech did something.. i dunno..

[rebelace12]

hooray! talked to ken he said he shot my gun at 26! Cant wait to get it back in when I do I will make a video.

[dyes biotch]

Well i did the bending of the leaf on the board from the Topic, Cure for a softer pull. Worked like a charm, this flew like mad today with paint!

[corrupt123]

im thinking it might be the problem. more people should try it.

[dyes biotch]

Made a world of difference for me!

[fly88]

ya i was only getting 15 then i did the rubber band mod and got 19 with a regular halo z and it felt good!!

[outcast]

Hi Ken,
Would you mind telling us what your are doing when you are diagnosing all these problems and getting peopels guns to rip? :)

[VeloChill]

are there any MT's of certified tech's in the Netherlands or Belgium? sending it to the UK is at pretty high cost + i dont want it to go through the custom's office

[SunTzu]

hey velo you from belgium man?
check your pm's

greetz Greg , antwerp

[Jim@ImpactPaintball]

i dont know if this has been released as the "fix" for the "problem" yet but...

the cause of ALOT of the SLOW ROF guns that ive worked on was LOW LPR PRESSURE...so i wouldnt recommend going lower with it...alot of our (mostly Frazer's) fixes actually were because we upped it...some to 70psi...so definetly dont want to go lower with it...wanna keep it over 60psi...the recharge rate also had something to do with it with some tanks and aftermarket regulators

[Predator]

Just thought I would let some of the EVO 2 owners with this problem know, it probably is your hopper. When i bought my blue fly and put my evo 2 on it, set on fast with new batteries, i got 14bps max. My EVO 2 has the Z board and it is still limited to 14bps.

I bought a smoke halo b and that jumped to 24bps.

the hopper is the key to using the speed that these guns are made for.

I'm not saying that there were not other issues involved. I am saying BUY A HALO! lol.

An angel without a halo, is no angel at all.

[trickytrix]

Hmm - the low LPR problem has me intrigued - were the markers you worked on firing fast with the eyes off, before the increase in LPR pressure?

[rebelace12]

Here were the settings on my gun:
Dwell-11
tr-22
LPR-75
hopper-sfast

With a Victory halo I was only shooting 14bps. I should be getting my gun back tommorow on friday and will post the new settings. Trigger had nothing to do with mine. I clipped my spring and was shooting 24bps full auto with eyes off with paint and only chopped a few. But with eyes on I was only hitting 14. Ken said he fixed it but wouldnt tell me how so... Oh yeah I got the magno mod too cant wait!! :)

[outcast]

i dont know if this has been released as the "fix" for the "problem" yet but...

the cause of ALOT of the SLOW ROF guns that ive worked on was LOW LPR PRESSURE...so i wouldnt recommend going lower with it...alot of our (mostly Frazer's) fixes actually were because we upped it...some to 70psi...so definetly dont want to go lower with it...wanna keep it over 60psi...the recharge rate also had something to do with it with some tanks and aftermarket regulators


Would this have any effect on those guns that rip with the eyes off, and are slow with them on? I'm thinking no, but it does'nt hurt to ask. :)

[Jouster]

No. Nothing changes when you turn the eyes off besides the eyes just not sending the signal anymore. LPR wont make it shoot slow with eyes on then burn with eyes off.
Unless the hammer is moving so slowly and the eyes are occlued by the bolt so long that it allows a timer in the software to expire....

Anyway, let's just sit back and wait for the MT's to tell us what the issue is. :smile:

Jouster

[rebelace12]

my guess is we should just close this thread...cause its getting old....real old
It isn't getting old for the people who are having this problem.

[thog94]

It isn't getting old for the people who are having this problem.


Reblace, you don' have that problem anymore. Got your gun tuned up and ripping last night.

[dyes biotch]

It isn't getting old for the people who are having this problem.

Damn straight, glad i got mine to work. Feel bad for the other ppl having this problem, mad me hate the gun and want to return it ASAP.

[rebelace12]

Pm'd you thog.

Yeah I feel for people who are wanting there stuff fixed.

[Jim@ImpactPaintball]

send the stuff in, Ill fix it....send it with loader too dont forget

[jester/NoX]

So how to fix it ???????

[rebelace12]

Ok got my gun back in and it is ripping! I will be playing today and tommorow and will let you guys know how it goes.

[rebelace12]

Ok played today and omg it shot lasers all day. I will get a video up as soon as possible. The mt's have this one wrapped up judging the improvement of my gun.

[pgaglio]

Any word from the MTs on what the most common
solution(s) were to these problems? :notsure:

[certifiednerd]

Well, i got mine back yesterday. Today it was shooting great all practice. I really want to hear the final word on what the problem is. last i heard they replaced the noid on my fly. Not sure though i need to call and confirm.

[jester/NoX]

Weeks of debats and no word about what we can do except sending the gun !!
Really bad !!!!

[pgaglio]

My guess is that it's probably a combination of things with no single problem being the cause.

But then again, I'm just guessing....what the hell do I know?

[certifiednerd]

Well they said they had 5 slow shooting fly's. 3 had problems with eyes. 2 Had my problem with the noid. So i dunno.

[KEN CRANE]

no one thing was the issue, most were purely set up. so unless you have success with what we would call basic set up i would send it in to one of us to have it looked at. i wish i could tell you it was more than this but thats whats up right now.all 9 units i serviced are back in the field working as designed.

[dent6]

Had all these slow problems myself with 3.0 software trying everything I could think of with no success and finally lowered dwell to 8 as per Ken and rate of fire jumped to +20 bps easily. Then just for the heck of it sent the gun to Ken Crane who up graded software to 3.5 (Thanks KEN !) It came back and still shoots great! TRY lowering the dwell it is not the software in my opinion. :snag: :snag:

[rebelace12]

I have my lpr set at 70-75 and my dwell at 11 should I lower my dwell?

[dent6]

yes lower it below 10

[dent6]

I almost hate to write this, but here goes after messing around with this gun for 2 months I finally took it to the field yesterday, All excited that I finally had it shooting above 20 bps and guess what it started shooting the dreaded 12 bps again!!!!! After fiddeling with it I gave up and pulled out the trusty WAS Impulse and went to town. After getting home I tried to think of a cause. All I could come up with was that I had not charged the gun in a LONG time even thought it did not say it needed charging. So I charged last night and when I got home today It is shooting 21 bps again . Just a obsersvation for what it is worth. Could low battery power effect speed??? :dunno: :dunno: :confused:

[smasher41]

low batterys can cause all sorts of wierd things to happen with ANY electronic gun.

since the eye uses electricty off the battery, it can very well be affected.

[DarkHope]

Alota times angels wont say there low on batteries till there completely out...I know mine doesnt...

[paintreliever]

dent6-u did not say u had a impy........noooooooooo

[dent6]

Sure I got a Impy. I totally customized and it has a WAS board. I love my new A 4 fly but The impy is sweet and totally reliable. I never have to mess with it!!!!!!!!!! Seems to be as fast as the fly also :fence: