Angel upgrade Found on PGI [Archive] - Official WDP Angel Owners Group

crazy col

08-11-2004, 05:32 PM

Newton's Law
As every good physics geek knows, Newton's first law states that: Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

What does this have to do with the new Newton Angel Valve from Evolve? Er, we'll get back to you on that one...anyhoo, the boys from Evolve did reveal the following: "We have been developing this system for the last few months now and feel it is time to let everyone know about it. The valve allows players to run their guns at 230psi, giving 2000 shots from a 68/4500. Run your dwell at its lowest setting to allow for maximum rate of fire all the way down to 7 on a fly4...we would go lower if the board would let us. A super lightweight hammer assembly completely removes mechanical kick."

And that's not all...

"It also has ultra low-pressure ram operation. We have been running the guns after bedding in at 30 psi through the lpr. We even ran the test guns with sensi/fly eyes off to test the ability of the bolt to bounce off paint in the breach, and let's just say that you will never have a problem with chopping again!! We were shooting 22bps laser beams with no breaks...Egg2/Halo, Sensi/Eye on/off no difference!"

The system comes as a self-fitting kit for the Speed, A4 and Fly. containing:

Evolve Adjustable LPR Cap
Newton Volumiser
Newton Ultra light Hammer
Newton Valve assembly

More information to follow on release date along with pictures and video.

www.evolvepaintball.com

__________________

alohn2000

08-11-2004, 05:49 PM

Man, it sounds pretty sweet. I hope the release date is soon though.

dynastySSS

08-11-2004, 06:19 PM

that dose sounds nice...but isnt that like the full force valve plz correct me if im wrong

sak45

08-12-2004, 04:00 AM

how much is this going to cost?

crazy col

08-12-2004, 04:29 AM

Hey guys I have shot one of their markers a Fly with this kit on and it rips Peegee demonstrated how out out shoot a halo with it. I can't comment on the internals or the set up as they would not show it me at the time but believe me this takes all the kick off an Angel and makes them truly awesome
:blasting:

JTp8ntballer12

08-12-2004, 04:31 AM

rate of fire all the way down to 7? i dont get it...

psychoballer07

08-12-2004, 04:42 AM

rate of fire all the way down to 7? i dont get it...

i think he means dwell at 7

IR3-ANGEL

08-12-2004, 05:36 AM

LoL dwell will be at 7 for maximum rate of fire.

Who?

08-13-2004, 04:30 PM

I went to that site, and did not see any information/video on this? Were abouts is it?

alohn2000

08-13-2004, 08:16 PM

Yea, I had had troble finding it to. But look under Forums, then the General Forum, and then you'll see it. :bigok:

Who?

08-13-2004, 09:21 PM

Thanks, I found it :)

Hep

08-14-2004, 01:22 AM

Hey guys I have shot one of their markers a Fly with this kit on and it rips Peegee demonstrated how out out shoot a halo with it.
Exactally how did he know he outshout the Halo? Im assuming the Eyes were off? Skipped shots? If not then how could he know he out shot the Halo if the eyes were on? It wont shoot without paint in the breach and besides that last time I checked my F4 didnt kick at all. 2000 shots off a 68 4500? cummon thats kinda high? I could pull off 1000 shots on a 45 4500 and I thought that was impressive. But 2000 off a 68 4500? Some more visual info or factual info would be nice. You get to a point to where physics play into it and I dont see that many shots ever being done. Call me a skeptic but show me the proof.
Hep

mamba_juice

08-14-2004, 02:31 AM

i believe Kai (one of the few trustable people) on pbnation tuned his cyborg to around 2300 shots......me262 and myself got a solid 1900 off of the virus, which is just about the same gun.

tgaffner

08-27-2004, 10:52 PM

LOL!

Run your dwell at its lowest setting to allow for maximum rate of fire all the way down to 7

Now I will finally be able to shoot 142857 bps instead of only shooting 76923 bps when my dwell is at 13....

cveale

08-28-2004, 12:46 AM

Exactally how did he know he outshout the Halo? Im assuming the Eyes were off? Skipped shots? If not then how could he know he out shot the Halo if the eyes were on? It wont shoot without paint in the breach and besides that last time I checked my F4 didnt kick at all. 2000 shots off a 68 4500? cummon thats kinda high? I could pull off 1000 shots on a 45 4500 and I thought that was impressive. But 2000 off a 68 4500? Some more visual info or factual info would be nice. You get to a point to where physics play into it and I dont see that many shots ever being done. Call me a skeptic but show me the proof.
Hep

I get around 1700 off my 68/45 as it is. 2000 is not that much of a stretch. The Angel 4 is a very efficient gun.

P8ntSlinger44

10-06-2004, 11:33 AM

2000 is in no way a stretch.

KEN CRANE

10-06-2004, 12:42 PM

2000 is in no way a stretch.

watch this section soon as more will come of this. :hi:

P8ntSlinger44

10-06-2004, 12:48 PM

:madd: :madd: I want more now KEN!!! An externally adjustable LPR would be insane most deffinitely. But, I dont see how you would go about actually seeing what the LPR pressure is set at if you can not put the guage on there at the same time as the LPR adjusting unit is. :pat:

peegee

10-09-2004, 01:51 PM

You can gauge it while you adjust the cap has 3 small blanked off holes the you un screw a cap from and screw in the gauge it is designed to allow you to have your barrel on and shoot paint as you fine tune the lpr. The full newton kit will come with the newton valve assy, lpr adjuster cap and a gauge as the newton and adjuster cap really come to life when used togeather. we have finished all our testing and mods at the factory and evrything will be going to WDP for theirs and master tech approval.

peegee

Evolve paintball :doc:

Scar13

10-12-2004, 12:10 PM

watch this section soon as more will come of this. :hi:

:dinner: :boobies: updates Ken?

Maxpayne2k4

10-12-2004, 02:40 PM

<~~~~saving up again...

Scar13

10-14-2004, 12:19 PM

Well doenst look like anythign came of this...

P8ntSlinger44

10-14-2004, 12:37 PM

Wait man...something will

Maxpayne2k4

10-14-2004, 06:50 PM

still wished the leaf spring would take a hike and get upgraded to whats in the eblade 2's opto board. that plus freeflow mod and a better regulator sounds intresting.

Maxpayne2k4

10-14-2004, 06:52 PM

Im not a big fan of Smart Parts but man I got to fire The Nerve at Mo's Today and its as fast as Demo mode on the Fly... Its incredable.

kangaroodent

10-14-2004, 06:59 PM

i believe Kai (one of the few trustable people) on pbnation tuned his cyborg to around 2300 shots......me262 and myself got a solid 1900 off of the virus, which is just about the same gun.

Cyborgs own in efficiency in the electropneu department. Angels are pure beauty and quality, not to mention probably the nicest trigger, Timmys are the name and that's about it. Nerves can't really compare to any said guns... The trigger is so stiff that shooting faster than 10bps without bounce is a challenge.

Oh, and Matrices, well, they're the bulkiest, ugliest and least gas efficient of all markers, but they don't have kick and that makes an Entity Matrix keep its' full retail value and some because it has an extra $100 worth of upgrades. Man, PBNation.com BST forums are as full of poo (harhar) as the digestive tract of a dairy cow.

P8ntSlinger44

10-14-2004, 09:17 PM

The nerve is indeed a nice gun, but it is also a bouncer. It is practicly impossibe to get it to stop bouncing and in most cases will never pass the bounce machine test at any pro level tournaments. The Angel still owns man. ANGEL FOR LIFE.

P8ntSlinger44

10-14-2004, 09:21 PM

Actually, what is the freeflow mod?

monkeymanlcd

10-14-2004, 10:02 PM

It is a mod to allow you to use an autococker lpr. I never used one but people i have talked to said there are more trouble than there are worth. But still I would like to try one someday.

P8ntSlinger44

10-14-2004, 10:05 PM

Hmm, I will wait and see what PGI comes out with. I dont want no WGP stuff on my angel. Not to say anything about the company or their stuff, but the two just dont mix.

Maxpayne2k4

10-14-2004, 10:26 PM

I want the Mag Mod Trigger from the Eblade 2 on my Opto Board on my Fly and take out the crappy Leaf §§§§. Is there any possible way to adapt the two? Come on Techs you know its a great Idea.

P8ntSlinger44

10-14-2004, 10:29 PM

Some people like the leaf spring. I personally do...if you have it set up right, its so nice. I preffer it as compared to the 05 speed trigger. I like the way you can just bat the trigger around and shoot, its easier.

Scar13

10-15-2004, 10:57 AM

here is the update its on hold...

THe MT's are testing it supposedly... But Evolve said on PBR its on hold.

Hep

10-15-2004, 11:06 AM

Jesus p8ntslinger do you like reading (listening) to yourself? and from 1700 shots to 2000 although not a strech is quite a bit of air.

winter001

10-15-2004, 01:18 PM

I want the Mag Mod Trigger from the Eblade 2 on my Opto Board on my Fly and take out the crappy Leaf §§§§. Is there any possible way to adapt the two? Come on Techs you know its a great Idea.

One of the mag mods the MTs do will remove the leaf spring for ya.

Maxpayne2k4

10-16-2004, 02:42 PM

I know ive seen the work done to a IR3 and the tension is still so high.

winter001

10-16-2004, 02:49 PM

The new speed has a 45 frame option coming out, so I would imagine future models will all have that option, have you tried the 05 speed trigger? It reminds me of an eblade quite a bit, and the guns are uncapped with the eyes on

Speedy_in_Blue

10-16-2004, 05:36 PM

I am getting 2200 off a 68/45 with my F4.

P8ntSlinger44

10-18-2004, 01:37 PM

HEP, this is of course a forum, I will say what I want when I want (within reason mind you). My posts are not long... If you dont like it then well, you know what to do.

DarkHope

10-22-2004, 05:05 PM

http://www.evolvepaintball.com/other.php

Hmmm, they already have the externaly adjustable LPR out...anyone tried this?

DarkRevolution417

10-22-2004, 06:07 PM

http://www.evolvepaintball.com/other.php

Hmmm, they already have the externaly adjustable LPR out...anyone tried this?

Yeah something similar at least, the Free-Flow ERA Mod with a Palmers reg, I like it...its a lot easier than messing with shims.

Collier

11-09-2004, 05:05 AM

It's out!

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38975

mamba_juice

11-09-2004, 05:14 AM

delrin and steel hammer eh?

now i wonder where they got that idea...

crazy col

11-09-2004, 07:53 AM

:fence:
Guys the product has now been launched and will be over in the states soon visit the Evolve web siteto see these parts they are also available in all the Angel colours.

Maxpayne2k4

11-09-2004, 09:30 AM

Its not out! It should be here on track for the beginning of December, just in time for Christmas. Hurry and Pre Order or it will be all gone. price is 155.00 plus 10.00 shipping
ouch but a worthy mod. cant wait to be shooting at 45 psi on the LPR and 9 at the dwell and getting 290 fps for 2000+ shots with no kick, minimum noise, and gentle on paint.
heres where you preorder:
http://www.evolvepaintball.com./other.php

Collier

11-09-2004, 10:51 AM

Well according to the press release from evolve that I linked it's out, so... :flipoff: :D

Furby

11-09-2004, 11:46 AM

And according to the good people at Evolve, I'll be evaluating one in my Fly soon.

crazy col

11-09-2004, 01:23 PM

Not out yet huh I wonder what it is thats in my speed eat ya heart out this is awsome kit, pre order it before they sell out
:clap:

P8ntSlinger44

11-09-2004, 04:55 PM

HEHEHE, mine is on its way as we speak!!! I still have to post results of my angry board too...hmmm...

tye1138

11-15-2004, 06:14 PM

I just want to let everybody know; I'll be doing a review of the Evolve kit once I've shot a few more cases through it. So far, It's FANTASTIC! The facts are simple:

1 single volumizer with valve rod inside
1 adjustable LPR cap
1 light-weight hammer

You would not think it, but its EASY to install and if done correctly the first time, VERY easy to set up and get working with better efficiency and less kick right off the bat. Stick your finger down the neck and shoot the marker, you won't even feel the bolt. Pressure can be as low as 35 and still shoot perfectly!

The efficiency on the 05 speed stock is around 1100 per 68/45 and thats REALLY hard to get. I shot a CASE through my 05 speed WITH the Newton Valve installed and got 1800! Thats w/o even trying to get it better.

So, pre-order while you can because this is going to be the NUMBER 1 product for Angel owners everywhere. Stop chopping, stop the kick, stop the gas hogging! Make your little Angel a perfect little gat!

Visit www.evolvepaintball.com for pictures and ordering info!

My review AND video will be up in a week!

tye1138

11-16-2004, 12:41 AM

Ok, so here are the pix:

The first pix is my 05 speed with the kit installed:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/05speedontable.jpg

Here is a close up of the kit:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/evolveonspeed.jpg

Here is the kit apart on a table, from left to right:
Volumizer, Pin valve rod, LPR cap adjuster
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/evolvekit.jpg

Here is my new invention, the JAM bolt PLUS.
This bolt was previewed here on PBnation, here is the final bolt:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/jambolt.jpg

The bolt removes problems like this:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/ballback.jpg
See how the ball is forward and not near the ball detents...

Now look at it, with our bolt:
http://www.behindthenettv.com/images/balltrapped.jpg
The balls are let into the marker and trapped between the bolt and the ball detents. This removes any motion in the ball when loading into the marker. NO motion = no chopping... and with the Evolve kit running at 35psi, the ball gets almost no pressure against it, this makes it shoot like a timmy.

So thats the story, with the new Jam PLUS bolt + the Evolve kit, your Angel will never chop again. I will have a video up online that PROVES this fact in a few days, PLUS a full review!

Maxpayne2k4

11-16-2004, 01:31 AM

beautiful gun Tye>

tye1138

11-16-2004, 01:37 AM

P8ntSlinger44

11-16-2004, 10:20 AM

Hmm, my angel never chopped once I got the eyes put in it. BUt anyhow, my evolve kti is on preorder.

Nice looking gat man. :patriot:

pgaglio

11-16-2004, 11:09 AM

I will have a video up online that PROVES this fact in a few days, PLUS a full review!

Make sure you let us know here when the vid and the review are available.

Thanks.

tye1138

11-16-2004, 01:08 PM

Hmm, my angel never chopped once I got the eyes put in it. :patriot:

Your saying that you've never had a ball chop, break, barrel break, paint not fly straight? EVER? ahh I'm gonna say, thats pretty amazing because every marker I've ever owned has had breaks at some point... This kit is designed to help remove these problems and it works great, even if you DON'T have problems now, you will in the future.

Trigga Nometry

11-16-2004, 01:56 PM

I'm really looking forward to the formal test results from the kit on the Speed 05. Looks like I found my next purchase to play around with.

Raoul

11-16-2004, 02:09 PM

Your saying that you've never had a ball chop, break, barrel break, paint not fly straight? EVER? ahh I'm gonna say, thats pretty amazing because every marker I've ever owned has had breaks at some point... This kit is designed to help remove these problems and it works great, even if you DON'T have problems now, you will in the future.

My Fly has never chopped once in the 6k balls put through it.

I *did* have a problem with not balls flying straight, but that was a LPR/Dwell issue ( http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=28230 ) , though I still haven't completely solved that mystery and am still werking on it....

tye1138

11-16-2004, 02:43 PM

My Fly has never chopped once in the 6k balls put through it.

I put 6k through my marker per day! hehe, put some more paint through it and try some brittle stuff like the draxxus brand, diablo or hellfire... it'll chop then! I can shoot ANY RPS or Zap paint through my 05 speed stock w/o any problem at all. Sadly at the tournaments chronic and draxxus are like the only big vendors.

Once you get out to tournaments your going to be very happy when YOUR not breaking and everybody else is! To tell you a quick story, at NPPL people were going through hoppers like they were going out of style! Halo's would break paint before it would even get into the marker! Revvy's and egg's were the only hoppers that seemed to be working.

The Evolve is less of a "toy" because its an upgrade that solves 1/2 the problems with Angels, horrible gas consumption and lower bolt pressure.

Trigga Nometry

11-16-2004, 04:15 PM

best part of it; this gat is a BEAST inside. Updated valve, bolt, hammer, LPR.. ya know, pretty much anything that makes a difference is NOT stock. I'm gonna strip it down and re-anno it soon! Its gonna be 1 of 1...I realize that you're going to do a full review on the Speed 05 but I was wondering what you were able to bring the mini-reg down to?

What was your optimum operating pressure with the Evolve Newton kit in your Speed 05?

I see that on the Evolve site they say they had the A4 down to 250psi. You must be able to get lower with when it's on the Speed 05, no?

Of course you'd need a gauge on the volumizer to really know the exact pressure.

Raoul

11-16-2004, 04:18 PM

I put 6k through my marker per day! hehe, put some more paint through it and try some brittle stuff like the draxxus brand, diablo or hellfire... it'll chop then! I can shoot ANY RPS or Zap paint through my 05 speed stock w/o any problem at all. Sadly at the tournaments chronic and draxxus are like the only big vendors.

Once you get out to tournaments your going to be very happy when YOUR not breaking and everybody else is! To tell you a quick story, at NPPL people were going through hoppers like they were going out of style! Halo's would break paint before it would even get into the marker! Revvy's and egg's were the only hoppers that seemed to be working.

The Evolve is less of a "toy" because its an upgrade that solves 1/2 the problems with Angels, horrible gas consumption and lower bolt pressure.

The more I think about it, I've prolly got about 26k through mine. I forgot I had the software updated and I was just going by what's on the counter now.

Still, I've shot Blaze (breech-leakage, though no breaks), RPS Flash (small, very round and fairly brittle), and a case and a half of Menace (small, square, breaks when dropped from belt-high on asphalt) 2 weekends ago and have yet to break one single ball.

I dunno, maybe I got a freaky weird Fly! :dunno:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not braggin..... well, yea I am!

Heh!

I'm prolly gonna go for this anyway. Since I sold my E-Cocker and bought a Fly, I need to find things to spend money on now!

P8ntSlinger44

11-16-2004, 04:28 PM

Tye, all I shoot at tournaments is drazzus blaze paint. No chops this whole year shooting my reto-fitted Speed. And we did 8 tournaments this year so far. Only one left to go.

tye1138

11-16-2004, 04:46 PM

Do you guys use the Empire reloader B?/Halo's or NON force feed hoppers. I'm almost 100% sure the problems people have been encountering have all been from force fed hoppers. I'm just amazed that every gat LA Exodus, Exodus kids and Pure Adrenline shot, was chopping all weekend. The only thing they all have in common are the hoppers, all Empire reloader B on fastest mode setting. I'm the tech for all 3 teams and we don't have anything else but those hoppers...

I really don't have anything to say but, that hopper REALLY forces paint in the marker and the flaws of the angel show up more then ever... the evolve and jam bolt fix all those problems.

tye1138

11-16-2004, 04:49 PM

I realize that you're going to do a full review on the Speed 05 but I was wondering what you were able to bring the mini-reg down to?
I was able to get it down to 40 psi and it shoots perfectly.

What was your optimum operating pressure with the Evolve Newton kit in your Speed 05?
250 PSI on the inline reg, 40 psi on the LPR. You can get it lower, but the springs need to wear in first, so maybe next week?? I'll see, I'm only shooting 3 cases this weekend, which might not be enough!

I see that on the Evolve site they say they had the A4 down to 250psi. You must be able to get lower with when it's on the Speed 05, no?
I've not tried to get it lower, thats easy, just adjust the inline reg to 250 with the gauge minus the evolve... thats what I did and it works 300fps NQA.

Trigga Nometry

11-16-2004, 04:50 PM

Awesome - can't wait for your review!

Trigga Nometry

11-16-2004, 04:52 PM

... the evolve and jam bolt fix all those problems.So tye, where can we get your JAM Bolt?

Raoul

11-16-2004, 05:02 PM

tye1138

11-17-2004, 02:15 AM

ReLoaderB set on Fast3.

yep, IDK sounds like your just one of the many who are lucky... I just watched the NPPL video I shot from SD and I can truly say, EVERYBODY was breaking paint!

Anyhow, my only point is, better safe then sorry. My friend who is also an Angel owner said his marker never broke paint, this past weekend he was down ALL weekend because it would not shoot the paint. The Evolve kit and bolt remove the impossible and let you spend more time in the game.

tye1138

11-17-2004, 02:16 AM

So tye, where can we get your JAM Bolt?

Ya know, I really don't have an answer for you. Give me a few weeks, I'll find SOMEBODY to help in the making process!

Trigga Nometry

11-17-2004, 01:29 PM

Ya know, I really don't have an answer for you. Give me a few weeks, I'll find SOMEBODY to help in the making process!If you're looking for a CNC, drop me a PM and let me know what you're looking for. I can show you some of my previous work. For example, click on THIS (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/TriggaNometry/PTFE_and_Delrin-PTFE_Bolts.jpg) for some Tippmann A-5 bolts that I made from 100% Teflon (the white ones) and Delrin impregnated with Teflon (brown ones).

Of course that is providing that all you need is the plastic part CNC'd.

Sorry for the Hijack guys.

tye1138

11-17-2004, 01:47 PM

Trigga Nometry

11-18-2004, 10:24 AM

Actually JAM is going to be making the bolts, I just need to finish the design and work with them on it. Right now I'm just too busy working on other stuff... I'll let everybody know when its ready for release! Thanks for the help!Ahh, I see! I wasn't aware of JAM. My mistake. Keep us posted.

I just pre-ordered my Evolve kit too. Supposed to ship by the end of 11/2004. Can't wait to try it out.

Crazy4Paintball1

11-22-2004, 09:29 AM

Once again us led owners are left out to dry...lol thats why I got my trusty 88 4500 tank

XXPaintDemonXX

11-22-2004, 10:15 PM

looks nice how does it work the the 05 speed?

tye1138

11-23-2004, 02:36 AM

Collier

11-23-2004, 05:44 AM

So far so good, the pressure needs to be @ 60 psi for it to ACTUALLY work effectively. Other then that, man it gets better gas mileage and MUCH less kick! Its a great modification, just making Angels a bit better, one thing at a time. My Jam Plus bolt is the thing that makes the REAL difference. W/O that, I'd still be chopping because 60 psi is still a bit high...
My 05 runs at 50 psi with the evolve kit.
To me the pressure from the bolt against my finger feels less then the pressure that your bolt takes to compress, I'm sure in tandom they remove all your chopping issues but I don't think your bolt alone would do it!

Trigga Nometry

11-23-2004, 09:17 AM

So far so good, the pressure needs to be @ 60 psi for it to ACTUALLY work effectively. Other then that, man it gets better gas mileage and MUCH less kick! Its a great modification, just making Angels a bit better, one thing at a time. My Jam Plus bolt is the thing that makes the REAL difference. W/O that, I'd still be chopping because 60 psi is still a bit high...Hmmmm.Aside from the JAM Plus Bolt, it sounds like the real advantage to the Evolve Kit is the valve and volumizer because it's kinda easy enough to set the LPR to 60psi without the kit. Some are already coming in stock at a LPR of about 60-65psi. Mine came in at 65psi.

I can't wait to see your video and full review when your done evaluating the kit. Keep up the good work.

P8ntSlinger44

11-23-2004, 09:31 AM

Collier

11-23-2004, 10:55 AM

You should be able to run your LPR pressure well below 50psi. In my 03 speed (no eveolve kit) i was running 43psi on my LPR and 11 for my dwell...could have gone lower too. So, I dont see how you need 60 psi in ord to make it work.

Dwell will no doubt be set a lot lower then 11.

Got to remember as well it's not all about the pressures the mass has been greatly reduced so kick is non existant, my speed 05 was set at 65 psi, under rapid fire you could see the barrel moving around, noww it doesn't move at all...
anyway, more to come.

Trigga Nometry

11-23-2004, 11:26 AM

Dwell will no doubt be set a lot lower then 11.

Got to remember as well it's not all about the pressures the mass has been greatly reduced so kick is non existant, my speed 05 was set at 65 psi, under rapid fire you could see the barrel moving around, noww it doesn't move at all...
anyway, more to come.Ahhhh.... I forgot all about the lighter hammer too. Thanks for reminding me/us.

Damn, I can't wait for my kit to get here!

pgaglio

11-23-2004, 11:33 AM

Given that the Force 4 fly has the "Full Force Valve" which is somehow special (please don't ask me how it's special because I don't know), can the Evolve kit be used in a Force Angel?

tye1138

11-23-2004, 12:52 PM

My 05 runs at 50 psi with the evolve kit.
To me the pressure from the bolt against my finger feels less then the pressure that your bolt takes to compress, I'm sure in tandom they remove all your chopping issues but I don't think your bolt alone would do it!

Set the TR to max, the dwell to the least and try maxing out the markers potential. Every 20th ball or so will break in mid air. 50 is not too bad, but anything below it, I've had severe paint breaking problems.

I've shot the video of my 05 shooting the most brittle paint ever using my bolt ONLY. So I'll post that very soon!

P8ntSlinger44

11-23-2004, 12:54 PM

OOO I see now, so your dwell is now set a lot lower then it was before right? Something like 7 or 8 right? I forgot that you can either have a low LPR or a low dwell. ANd in thsi case since the hammer is so light, you do not need a low LPR at all. And a low dwell in this case would be better, higher possible ROF, and short cycle.

Hmm, Evolve should be shipping them out some time soon I think. Still waiting for my kit.

And yes you should be able to use this kit on a Force Fly. It is the same as any other Fly minus the differences in the valce.

Collier

11-23-2004, 12:56 PM

Set the TR to max, the dwell to the least and try maxing out the markers potential. Every 20th ball or so will break in mid air. 50 is not too bad, but anything below it, I've had severe paint breaking problems.

I've shot the video of my 05 shooting the most brittle paint ever using my bolt ONLY. So I'll post that very soon!

Will give it a try! Is yours set at 60 with the dwell at 7?
Hope my post didn't come accross the wrong way, not trying to bash your bolt at all :)

tye1138

11-23-2004, 01:05 PM

Will give it a try! Is yours set at 60 with the dwell at 7?
Hope my post didn't come accross the wrong way, not trying to bash your bolt at all :)

Its all good, I just want to see if you can get your 05 to work differently then the 3 I have... because I've not been too happy with the fact I can't lower the PSI...

Collier

11-23-2004, 01:08 PM

Its all good, I just want to see if you can get your 05 to work differently then the 3 I have... because I've not been too happy with the fact I can't lower the PSI...

Seems odd though, specially as the inline is supposed to be better flowing then previous models, assuming the inline is the bottleneck of course...
You got msn?

tye1138

11-23-2004, 03:09 PM

Collier

11-23-2004, 03:15 PM

I'm on AIM tye1138
Yea, the inline is the bottleneck. I'm still on the page of putting a sidewinder on it as soon as Evolve has finished there design for the ASA adaptor. I'll post once I've put 800 psi into the mini-reg instead of 400 psi, that could also make a difference.

Didn't help mine, but then I didn't try and adjust the inline afterwards as I have no chrono etc, Evolve are looking at making a gauge adapter similar to the normal one except with a higher psi reading, that way it can be installed on the left hand tube and tell us what the inline reg is doing.
The inline also doesn't have a working range as such, I quote from Frazer "The in line reg will only regulate what pressure you put into it, so its range is determined by its input."
So surely by that statement the 800 psi preset system I tried should have helped? Unless there is now too much pressure going through........

Snooky

11-24-2004, 06:49 AM

Collier

11-24-2004, 07:41 AM

Are people only having problems with thier 05 speeds with this mod or a4's and fly's too?

Intrested in getting this mod don't wanna drop a bunch of cash buying either a HP/Adjustable tank over my LP.

From what I've heard just 05 speeds. But it's not a problem as such, more that we can't go as low with the lpr pressure as the a4/fly's, at the moment....

tye1138

11-24-2004, 01:15 PM

I'll be workin on it tonight and post from the shop with an answer!

Outerice

11-24-2004, 05:08 PM

Given that the Force 4 fly has the "Full Force Valve" which is somehow special (please don't ask me how it's special because I don't know), can the Evolve kit be used in a Force Angel?

Yes it can and it will make it better.. I have a gunmetal dust force fly and to me the force valve is the same as a regular fly valve except fot there coating on it that makes it slicker

Hathegkla

11-24-2004, 07:14 PM

once these kits end up in stores are there going to be any MT's that will do the install\finetuneing or is this not "approved" by WDP?

Collier

11-25-2004, 04:22 AM

once these kits end up in stores are there going to be any MT's that will do the install\finetuneing or is this not "approved" by WDP?
It'll be approved! :smile:

Snooky

11-25-2004, 06:37 AM

Thanks collier

inuyasha

11-25-2004, 08:39 AM

Outerice

11-25-2004, 02:26 PM

once these kits end up in stores are there going to be any MT's that will do the install\finetuneing or is this not "approved" by WDP?

From what i here it is aproved by wdp. Also Mark and Jim from impact say they are going to be a distributer for evolve. Wich means you have the two best techs in the country selling and installing the newton kit. Props to impact!!! I ordered the kit in dust black for my gunmetal force fly. Evolve says the are shipping next week. Soon i will hae the badest force fly... I allready do thanks to impact, but it will be untouchable with the newt kit...

tye1138

11-25-2004, 04:23 PM

Here is our first demo video of the 05 speed with Evolve kit running @ 60 psi AND the Jam PLUS bolt in action! Its just an advertisement, but you can see how truly fast this marker can be. Please download the video instead of streaming it. December 1st, the video will be only available on our 818 paintball web site instead of here, so download it while you can!

thanks and enjoy!

http://www.behindthenettv.com/movies/818speedvid.mov

P8ntSlinger44

11-25-2004, 06:10 PM

Nice vid. Good editing.

Jetwing@Impactpaintball

11-25-2004, 09:05 PM

that is insanely fast... does anyone think of the phrase "it doesnt get any faster than that... it doesnt get any faster then that" after watchin it?

Collier

11-26-2004, 02:09 AM

Awesome vid! It really does show what this gun can do!

Trigga Nometry

11-27-2004, 08:23 PM

So any updates as to when the Evolve kit will ship? Anyone have any inside info? Can't wait to get it in and install it.

By the way - the video is awesome!

Outerice

11-28-2004, 11:19 AM

I have one ordered in dust black and i was told by them that they will ship sometime this week.

wolfram075

11-29-2004, 03:37 AM

What id like to know is what is the MT's take on all of it...and is the 05 gonna be the bas*ard child for the kit or have the kinks been worked out for it...

tye1138

11-29-2004, 01:01 PM

What id like to know is what is the MT's take on all of it...and is the 05 gonna be the bas*ard child for the kit or have the kinks been worked out for it...

I'm gonna have to say the 05 still does not work correctly. I've been having repeating problems with the kit and over the chrono test results. It shoots faster then shyt, but it still eats up gas and does not seem to be very consistant. Its all due to that stupid in-line mini-reg and whenever the ASA adaptor comes out, it should work fine.

BTW: We installed MY kit onto a FLY and it worked flawlessly!

Trigga Nometry

11-29-2004, 01:06 PM

What are your thoughts on using a really good adjustable regulated HPA tank and gutting out the mini-reg in the 05. Maybe use an Angel AIR or similiar tank? Will it work better or will the adjustable tanks still not be able to get the job done for the 05 with the Kit?

Hmmmmm..... Never mind. I just read your post on PBNation regarding you using a HP tank on the 05 too.

Sounds like the minireg on the 05 isn't compatible with the Kit :pissed: .

wolfram075

11-29-2004, 11:37 PM

hmm sounds like im gonna have to just use the reg on my scion to controll FPS and take the reg out if i wanna use the kit i guess...the manual ses this is ok...unless i read it wrong...

Reborn

11-30-2004, 01:53 AM

Has anyone tried it in a 04 Speed?

$J-MAL$

11-30-2004, 10:26 AM

whats the difference between this and the MT internals? jw im new to angels

P8ntSlinger44

11-30-2004, 10:35 AM

Has anyone tried it in a 04 Speed?
I will let you know as soon as I mine gets here man.

whats the difference between this and the MT internals? jw im new to angels
The MT internals dont have an LPR adjuster cap, or a new volumizer, or a lightenned ram. The MT internals (correct me if Im wrong) only consist of a higher flowing valve, and thats all.

Outerice

11-30-2004, 06:51 PM

I will let you know as soon as I mine gets here man.

The MT internals dont have an LPR adjuster cap, or a new volumizer, or a lightenned ram. The MT internals (correct me if Im wrong) only consist of a higher flowing valve, and thats all.
the valve isn't higher flowing its the same as the stock fly valve

P8ntSlinger44

11-30-2004, 07:13 PM

My bad

wolfram075

11-30-2004, 10:58 PM

tye...did u try pulling the reg off the 05 and use a adj tank ie (max flow; evil scion; ect) and see if that improved things any?

terminator

12-01-2004, 12:14 AM

I guess I don't really want the Evo Kit, if I have to put a Vert Adapter and a New Reg on it. :doh:

Although I will look forward to the Jam Bolt Plus.

If someone can say that the Evo Kit DOES work great on Speed's I may change my mind, but from what I read from Tye the Kit is inconsitent and a gashog on the 05 speeds.

Raoul

12-01-2004, 08:32 AM

Tye is having unusual problems. Evolve wouldn't come out with something that didn't werk.

Collier

12-01-2004, 02:33 PM

Tye is having unusual problems. Evolve wouldn't come out with something that didn't werk.

It works flawlessly on Fly's, A4's etc and Peegee has had success on other 05's I believe. The kit is NOT at fault here...
Even set at 60 psi though there is still no kick!!!!

Everyone should have one!!!

tye1138

12-01-2004, 02:51 PM

It works flawlessly on Fly's, A4's etc and Peegee has had success on other 05's I believe. The kit is NOT at fault here...
Even set at 60 psi though there is still no kick!!!!

Everyone should have one!!!

@40 psi dwell 9 does not work on ANY 05 speed when rapid firing. We have done tests with 3 05 speeds and we can't even get close. The best we can do is 50 psi @ 9 dwell and even then, rapid firing it will drop off every 10 rounds. I personally run mine at 60 psi, which is the stock pressure of the marker and have no problems at all.

The issues with the speed are 100% the NEW inline mini-reg and we are working to resolve them...

wolfram075

12-02-2004, 02:33 AM

yep like i said just gut the mini reg and old school it smart parts style and use an adjustible tank to regulate fps till the new asa comes out...and im takin it kick is not the issue as much as its the being able to get your lpr down low so u dont break paint

tye1138

12-02-2004, 03:34 AM

Hey everybody!
Tonight I went ahead and did all my experimenting using a different ASA and inline reg. My results were astounding!!!

I manufactured (from an A4 bad asa) one that would fit onto the 05 speed. This took 1/2 the evening to get right (don't try this at home) and after several failed attempts, we finally got it to work. We stuck a sidwinder on an 05 speed and gased it up.

To my surprise the recharge rate was still slow!!! I knew then, all this time it was a bad LPR! I rushed over to the work bench, grabbed a marker that was being used as spare parts, pulled out the entire LPR assembly from an A4, stuck it in and found it to be working 100%! No drop off, no creeping, just perfect! I proceeded to scream as loud as I could and shot an entire hopper through the marker to make sure it was working.

I grabbed my other 05 speed, and found that IT's LPR did the same thing! So I have 2 05 speeds with bad LPR's! My 3rd 05 speed was out and about, so I could not use it for testing purposes.

All this time, its just been a few bad LPR's and nothing has been wrong with the new inline mini-reg. I reassembled the markers using the new LPR's and the gauges were rock solid perfect. I did a few tests @ 50 psi, and it seemed to work fine. I'm leaving my gat @ 60 due to the risk of 50 psi being too low for rapid firing.

Ok, that's my story! Sorry if I've been upsetting those trying to get Evolve kits, but as I said before; the kits work fine its just the dam markers that don't! I think WDP had a run of bad LPR's. We tried replacing the o-rings and lubing them up with no success. I'll post further info if I hear of anybody else with my problem...

Trigga Nometry

12-02-2004, 08:53 AM

That's some great work Tye! Thanks for all the work. I for one feel much better now and can't wait for the kit to arrive.

I guess I'll have to test at the 40psi to see if my LPR might be one from the bad runs.

I wonder if WDP can trace back to a specific lot and serial #'s to let those know who might have the bad/slow LPR's. I know that it might not make much of a difference for those not using the kit, but I want all I can get out of my Speed 05. That's why I bought it and the Kit!

Trigga Nometry

12-02-2004, 11:17 AM

For those that preordered - I got received word today from Evolve that the Angel Kits are being packaged right now and will ship out early next week.

P8ntSlinger44

12-02-2004, 01:53 PM

...I cant wait! :feed:

Trigga Nometry

12-02-2004, 09:50 PM

Anyone know if WDP will in fact replace the LPR's if they are charging too slow or leaking.

Any of the MT's (other than Tye) know if this has been discussed since we now have confirmation that some Speed 05 LPRs might be a bad batch?

P8ntSlinger44

12-03-2004, 12:44 AM

I dont know, but if they will replace under warranty or something then you will probably have to send it to tha Mt's for them to check it first to get the LPR. They wont just send it to you.

wolfram075

12-04-2004, 02:34 AM

Tye- so the kit works fine on the 05 just possibly the LPR is faulty...at least thats what im gettn out of it...also any word on if the MT's/wdp have approved the kit for use yet w/o warrenty violaton..

Outerice

12-04-2004, 12:47 PM

I was told by my master tech that it is approved and that they are also ging to be a distributer for evolve. The way he explained it was that evolve's main concern is to better the angel and there not just another company throwing out a b.s. product for the angel to make money. Kinda like ev#@ did with there angel valve that voids warrenty. And that is why they are not going to void warrenty. Also they claim to have worked with wdp so that it is one of the best products for the gun.

tye1138

12-04-2004, 01:18 PM

I've not had any real problems since I replaced my LPR. I'm going to go use the marker in 30 min and play a few games with it, to make 100% sure. Otherwise, my testing is conclusive that the problem was the LPR all of this time. NOT only 1 LPR, but 2 of my 05 speed's have the same problem! My 3rd 05 has not had any complaints from the user yet...

WDP certified the upgrade BUT the guys over at the WDP booth in SD did not know much about the mod, so we'll see if they support it at HB. My biggest concern is setting teams up with the mod, something about the angel fails and the techs blame the upgrade for the problem.

Listen to this one: One of my speeds had a bad breech door rod. I diagnosed it as the problem and to get parts down in SD, you have to hand it to a tech. So I reluctantly went to Frazier and showed him that the bolt would get stuck forward on shooting with the rod and w/o the rod, it would work flawlessly. Before he could blink an eye, he said the Evolve kit lowered the pressure to low and that was the reason why it did not work... WHAT??? I wanted a breech door rod, not a guestimation of why the bolt was sticking forward. I showed him how the door was not shutting properly and how the rod was bent, but he sent me on my way fully confident that if I took that kit off, the marker would work fine!

So that's the only problem I can see happening. It won't void your warranty and techs like me would be more then happy to fix it, if broken. BUT will the same ol' WDP tournament tech crew fix'em? so far the results have been less then stellar!

tgaffner

12-04-2004, 02:12 PM

I'm not having any problems with my 05 Speed or its LPR....
Hmmm.....

tye1138

12-05-2004, 03:33 AM

I'm not having any problems with my 05 Speed or its LPR....
Hmmm.....

Have you thrown an Angel gauge on the LPR side and let it sit around for a bit, like 1 to 3 minutes? If you do that, you'll see the reg creep up, no matter what. That creeping was exactly what happened to my speed in the early days. Then it just got worse and worse. As of this weekend, I've put over 25k through my speed and I think the lpr's wear out somehow... I don't know how yet... Maybe its the climate...

BoB

12-05-2004, 04:24 AM

[QUOTE=tye1138]WDP certified the upgrade BUT the guys over at the WDP booth in SD./Quote]

That is because at that time, the mod had not been given to us by the evolve guys.

[QUOTE=tye1138]Listen to this one: One of my speeds had a bad breech door rod./Quote]

Not really an issue as the rod can be adjusted "thats how breech placement works"so they are never really bad unless you actually bend them to the point that they break.

[QUOTE=tye1138]So that's the only problem I can see happening. It won't void your warranty and techs like me./Quote]

Speaking of WDP certifications, we have not been able to locate yours or one for your store. Please send me your information and I will verify the certification and ensure the tech records are updated.

Bob

KEN CRANE

12-05-2004, 08:34 AM

:pat: [QUOTE=tye1138]WDP certified the upgrade BUT the guys over at the WDP booth in SD./Quote]

That is because at that time, the mod had not been given to us by the evolve guys.

[QUOTE=tye1138]Listen to this one: One of my speeds had a bad breech door rod./Quote]

Not really an issue as the rod can be adjusted "thats how breech placement works"so they are never really bad unless you actually bend them to the point that they break.

[QUOTE=tye1138]So that's the only problem I can see happening. It won't void your warranty and techs like me./Quote]

Speaking of WDP certifications, we have not been able to locate yours or one for your store. Please send me your information and I will verify the certification and ensure the tech records are updated.

Bob

:owned: :owned: :owned:

hey listen to this one lol

if you payed attention to why breach door placment was important, you would know why your bolt was sticking forward.

KEN CRANE

12-05-2004, 08:44 AM

KEN CRANE

12-05-2004, 08:55 AM

i want this read by all that have read tyes post on bad lprs.there is no issue with the lprs in the o5 speeds!!!if he has given you the impression that there is a problem with them it is bull§§§§!!! we never manufactured the lprs to run at 40 lbs. becuse you try and make something do what it was not designed to do does not make it bad.please do not start false rumors about a product when you do not know what you are talking about.. it takes us twice as long to dispute crap than it does to tell the truth. if we have any issues with the proudct we tell you about it and how to fix it. so when the evolve testing is complted by us and wdp you will read it here.so my suggestion is wait for us to give you the real skinny very soon. :pisss: :pisss:

mamba_juice

12-05-2004, 10:07 AM

we never manufactured the lprs to run at 40 lbs. becuse you try and make something do what it was not designed to do does not make it bad.

lol

i dont even think 40psi is low enough for some people....i guess i'm not cool enough because my ir3 works best at 65 :dunno:

however i do have one question to ask tye...what exactly is the benefit of lowering your pressure to 40psi, as opposed to the recommended 60-70? i know it can be gentler on brittle paint but the stock pressure is already so low on current guns that it was never a worry to begin with. the only real useful thing i can see with this kit is the LPR ajuster, so to me the rest just seems like a bucket of hype...to spend that much money to *try* to improve a system that has already been proven to work above and beyond human limitations is just frivilous to me...the only reason one SHOULD buy this is if they like the looks. or perhaps i'm just talking out of my ass and it really does revolutionize paintball

and one more thing, dont even get me started on the delrin/metal hammer...

Raoul

12-05-2004, 11:24 AM

There's a reason they are called "Angel/WDP Master Techs"

/me = MT Believer

peegee

12-05-2004, 11:36 AM

lol

i dont even think 40psi is low enough for some people....i guess i'm not cool enough because my ir3 works best at 65 :dunno:

however i do have one question to ask tye...what exactly is the benefit of lowering your pressure to 40psi, as opposed to the recommended 60-70? i know it can be gentler on brittle paint but the stock pressure is already so low on current guns that it was never a worry to begin with. the only real useful thing i can see with this kit is the LPR ajuster, so to me the rest just seems like a bucket of hype...to spend that much money to *try* to improve a system that has already been proven to work above and beyond human limitations is just frivilous to me...the only reason one SHOULD buy this is if they like the looks. or perhaps i'm just talking out of my ass and it really does revolutionize paintball

and one more thing, dont even get me started on the delrin/metal hammer...

Bucket of hype ???

LMAO

We havent hyped anything up ask MAX and marcus if it is hype.

The valve decreases the kick of the gun and the operating mass 65 is low on a lpr but when it is throwing forward a 35g hammer that isnt going to stop on even hard paint.

We have never told anyone with this kit to run it at 40psi even the manual for it states 50 and above we have only stated the extremes we have been able to run it at.

And if existing system is a proven system that works above human limitation why is wdp using a new lpr spring pack and a balanced piston valve and low operating mass hammer and ram in the G7

At the comanders cup we watched teams burst and chop paint like it was sub zero temps we took 3 guns that were having a problem one of which was max's and installed the kit. using the exact same paint they didnt break another ball max was shocked and promply ran round the site showing evryone this gun. Andy from richmond riot took 10 mins to install the kit himself and proceded to shoot a full case of paint of a 68/4500 infront of quit a few people without breaking a ball the paint he was shooting was breaking when dropped from a foot off the floor.

We are working with wdp on this kit and if it was hype believe me they wold not touch it with a 20 foot stick.

The master techs are getting kits sent to them on monday so we await there comments and look forward to them good or bad

HYPE NO.. REALITY YES......

peegee
EVOLVE PAINTBALL

mamba_juice

12-05-2004, 12:12 PM

i guess i mistook a few parts then...i havent seen evolve hyping it up, but i have seen others that have. I put a lot of my own opinions on how i like a gun to shoot into that post, which i shouldnt have. I personally dont care how much kick a gun has, whereas many others do. I'm not one of the supporters of the "low pressure revolution", and really could care less what pressure my gun runs at.

I can't speak for WDP in the least bit about the G7, but my own thoughts as to why they did it were because they can then back up what they say about it. they can legitimately say that it is faster, more efficient, etc...instead of just saying it for the sake of saying it like so many others do.

I myself have never had any better performance with lower pressure, having converted 2 guns of differnet kinds from HP to LP i can honestly say that. The only gain i have ever gotten out of it was it being easier on brittle paint...and in my experience i simply cannot justify spending so much money just for that, but other people have different views.

if i came across like i was attacking evolve, i wasnt...in fact i run a somewhat similar system on my ir3...however i have seen no performance gain from the low pressure alone. I have however seen a difference in other things such as kick, but i pay little to no attention to it and could honestly care less, which is probably why i neither want nor need it...however other people have different views on things and there completely entitled to speak thier mind and spend thier money the way they want...opinions should not matter, which is exactly why i have no argument. i have no facts other than what my own experiences with similar systems are...if it sounds like i was badmouthing evolve i apoligise...my own lack of maturity often leads me to throw in my own opinions on things without thinking, it doesnt always mean i'm wrong, but often pisses people off for no reason.

Sparco

12-05-2004, 12:45 PM

I've watched the PBN thread with Tye and it's become an indirect plug on his bolt, which is unfortunate. I had gotten my hands on a kit at SD NPPL and hooked it up to an A4 Fly and 05 Speed, I was extremely pleased with the performance. However, I've yet to experience improved performance over my current configuration without the component. I've encountered paint on three different situations that no matter what settings I tried I'd break. However, all the other markers out there experienced the same problems... so I didn't feel disgruntled over my difficulty. I'd be curious to see this component try to handle some of the crap white box that some local stores attempt to sell.

In short... a properly configured marker (no aftermarket bolts needed) have given me thousands upon thousands of shots with a clean breech and a clean barrel. Enough to the point where I do not believe it's essential to run out and buy kits. However, this aftermarket component that Evolve has released is certainly a nice aftermarket 'upgrade' for those that have to buy anything and everything and refuse to accept that often times stock is the best bet. It'll sell well for them, their quality is fantastic and they all seem like a great group.

peegee

12-05-2004, 01:20 PM

Mamba no offence taken

The newton kit is far from low pressure infact the valve runs between 250/300 psi

this is what makes our kit different we give the limited kick low lpr characteristics of a LP gun but with the high input thus giving you a more efficient setup

The kit was designed to win back those people that have been daying that spool valve markers are better etc

This kit gives you again the best of both worlds
Spool valve and bang valve

peegee

mamba_juice

12-05-2004, 01:25 PM

ah ok, i believe i was mistaken then. so basically it reduces kick by getting rid of excess moving mass, rather than lowering the pressure. because of that the force required to move it is lessened and therefore the LPR can be slightly lowered. tye was giving the impression that low pressure is the key, when really it is the mass that is the important part :lightbulb

Raoul

12-05-2004, 01:36 PM

KEN CRANE

12-05-2004, 03:46 PM

Bucket of hype ???

LMAO

We havent hyped anything up ask MAX and marcus if it is hype.

The valve decreases the kick of the gun and the operating mass 65 is low on a lpr but when it is throwing forward a 35g hammer that isnt going to stop on even hard paint.

We have never told anyone with this kit to run it at 40psi even the manual for it states 50 and above we have only stated the extremes we have been able to run it at.

And if existing system is a proven system that works above human limitation why is wdp using a new lpr spring pack and a balanced piston valve and low operating mass hammer and ram in the G7

At the comanders cup we watched teams burst and chop paint like it was sub zero temps we took 3 guns that were having a problem one of which was max's and installed the kit. using the exact same paint they didnt break another ball max was shocked and promply ran round the site showing evryone this gun. Andy from richmond riot took 10 mins to install the kit himself and proceded to shoot a full case of paint of a 68/4500 infront of quit a few people without breaking a ball the paint he was shooting was breaking when dropped from a foot off the floor.

We are working with wdp on this kit and if it was hype believe me they wold not touch it with a 20 foot stick.

The master techs are getting kits sent to them on monday so we await there comments and look forward to them good or bad

HYPE NO.. REALITY YES......

peegee
EVOLVE PAINTBALL

thank you for finaly telling them,its been a bitch keeping my mouth shut. they will all see the light woo hoo

Collier

12-05-2004, 04:28 PM

Re-read last few post's... deleted accordingly.

smasher41

12-05-2004, 06:18 PM

thank you for finaly telling them,its been a bitch keeping my mouth shut. they will all see the light woo hoo

Seriously, I'm starting to get sick of this crap.
1st its the evolve kit is the best thing in the world, go out and buy it right now, then it sucks, then it moves to the Lpr sucks, which i think he stated in a post was fixed by, guess what, rebuilding the lpr main internal seal! Then i see posts of bent breach pin, and swollen bolts now... WTF are you doing to your guns to cause SO many re-occuring problems?
:confused:

P8ntSlinger44

12-05-2004, 07:28 PM

:dito: ...retards

FallNAngel

12-05-2004, 09:55 PM

I think peeps wrongly equate what the LPR on an Angel does with what an LPR does on other guns, ie. air pressure on the ball, when the fact is that the LPR on an Angel is solely used to regulate the solenoid/Ram operating pressure, Hence the myth that lowering the LPR on an Angel equals lower air pressure impact on the ball. (deep breath)

Unless I'm missing something, that's all it does on pretty much any other ram/hammer gun. In none of the guns that I can think of does lowering the LPR give lower air pressure impact on the ball.

Also, Evolve is one of the companys I see hyping their products the least with the best in the way of actual results. Kudos to them :cool:

Raoul

12-06-2004, 12:21 AM

Unless I'm missing something, that's all it does on pretty much any other ram/hammer gun. In none of the guns that I can think of does lowering the LPR give lower air pressure impact on the ball.....

Is that true on Spool Valve guns? I was under the impression that Spool Valve guns can change velocity through LPR adjustment, hence the tourney locks...

I could be wrong... I have been in the past! :headoff:

Edit: Never mind, My Bad. I see now that you said "Ram/Hammer guns"

Back on topic!

tye1138

12-06-2004, 03:20 AM

.there is no issue with the lprs in the o5 speeds!!!if he has given you the impression that there is a problem with them it is bull§§§§!!!

My LPR's have issues... but they have been resolved by another tech; ME.

we never manufactured the lprs to run at 40 lbs. becuse you try and make something do what it was not designed to do does not make it bad.

NO rumors here, I did not even touch my 2 05's before the regs started creeping. The Evolve kit runs the LPR at 100 psi, so YOU are now WDP??? Ohh, ok so its Ken's LPR is not made to run at 40 psi, good to know...

please do not start false rumors about a product when you do not know what you are talking about.. it takes us twice as long to dispute crap than it does to tell the truth. if we have any issues with the proudct we tell you about it and how to fix it.

I'm not starting anything, if you'd just read you'd see that I fixed the problems with my 2 05's and they were both bad LPR valves. Looks like Ken's perfect marker failed the tye1138 testing!

so when the evolve testing is complted by us and wdp you will read it here.so my suggestion is wait for us to give you the real skinny very soon.

OHH, so Ken's not WDP, got ya ;) You guys have enough time to put 30k of PAINT through the marker over a 1 month peroid of shaking the marker around and diving in dirt??? Man you guys are great, I just don't see how thats possible. My 05's were both given to NPPL tournament players during NPPL SD. They were burned in and post game, I've personally put on 15k.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound overly cynical but you have to understand where I'm coming from. Peegee and I are the only ones that I know of, that have put the Evolve kit through its paces. If I sent my marker out to a "Master Tech" I'd get it back saying there is nothing wrong. Its only when I go on the field and shoot the bloody thing, that things go wrong. On the tech bench and in the chrono range, the marker always shoots accurate darts!

tye1138

12-06-2004, 03:23 AM

Look, I'm a 3rd party in all of this. I'm not an ANGEL lover, or have ever been. I've been trying to make Angels better, because there is need for improvement.

I took my WDP certification with Boston Paintball in 2002 when I was working as a freelance tech. I moved over to PnL paintball and was the lead tech for quite sometime. I've been servicing Angels for over 3 years now and know them inside and out, just like you guys. We have not made our new shop an official WDP location because we are not 100% sure we want to, after all of the problems we've been having.

Why make Angels better? Because my Matrix never breaks a ball, or chops a ball. So why does an Angel? Customers buy Angels from our shop and bring them in to be fixed all the time. Whats the #1 problem = chopping. This answer is not too simple, but one element is the ball movement in the breech. This is resolved by a unique invention; Jam Plus bolt. The other half is the Evolve kit, which not only lowers the pressure, but enables the fine-tuning of your marker. The Newton valve enables the marker to run faster, with less pressure and creates an invaluable adjusting tool for those to want to make it a perfect marker. I choose the Angel as a pet project because I've had nothing but problems in the past and it was time to make a clean slate. I'm just amazed at the negative response to the Evolve kit for Angels, where the opposite is true for the Evolve products for Matrix. Tells you which group of users really knows there product instead of being insecure.

Matrixes are a WAY more technical marker and you need to have substantial experience to even work on them. But Gen- E never offered a tech class, why? Because there are people who really care about the matrix and learned how to fix them over time. If I don't have a badge on my forehead that says "Master Tech" then I'm some stupid idiot, just like YOUR reply to my postings. Yea, not every marker has this problem and you'd see that I never said EVER MARKER HAS A PROBLEM, because that's stupid! I happen to have 2 early production run markers that had problems. Big deal... I fixed them, lets move on!

People draw to conclusions quickly and just because your a "Master Tech" does not mean your the Angel God. Ya gotta read what I'm sayin and what problems I'm having. Reply to my issues with answers and not phrases that don't really mean anything. I'm still having problems with out of the box markers and breech alignment. Whats up with that? You can suggest a corse of action that I perhaps don't know and I will do what you ask. Going online and belittling people is not the answer and all it does is make retailers like ourselves move away from WDP.

In conclusion, this thread is about making a better marker. I just love how my idea for the Jam Plus bolt is integrated into the new G7. So is the lighter hammer and balanced piston rod. Sounds like the upgrades that Evolve and I are making are not important to you "Master Techs". I just hope your stock out of the box Angels don't break as much paint as the ones I've owned and fix do.

We are both here to HELP, I just happen to post everything that is a problem for ME so that if others have the same issue, we can collaborate on a fix.

KEN CRANE

12-06-2004, 08:28 AM

My LPR's have issues... but they have been resolved by another tech; ME.

NO rumors here, I did not even touch my 2 05's before the regs started creeping. The Evolve kit runs the LPR at 100 psi, so YOU are now WDP??? Ohh, ok so its Ken's LPR is not made to run at 40 psi, good to know...

I'm not starting anything, if you'd just read you'd see that I fixed the problems with my 2 05's and they were both bad LPR valves. Looks like Ken's perfect marker failed the tye1138 testing!

OHH, so Ken's not WDP, got ya ;) You guys have enough time to put 30k of PAINT through the marker over a 1 month peroid of shaking the marker around and diving in dirt??? Man you guys are great, I just don't see how thats possible. My 05's were both given to NPPL tournament players during NPPL SD. They were burned in and post game, I've personally put on 15k.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound overly cynical but you have to understand where I'm coming from. Peegee and I are the only ones that I know of, that have put the Evolve kit through its paces. If I sent my marker out to a "Master Tech" I'd get it back saying there is nothing wrong. Its only when I go on the field and shoot the bloody thing, that things go wrong. On the tech bench and in the chrono range, the marker always shoots accurate darts!

tye just so its clear when any of the mt refer to we or us there is a reason. that is becuse "we" unlike others work for the company. as we will have the final product this week to do the follow up testing we can let you know how it goes. and for shooting 30,000 shots sorry pal i do that in 2-3 days as i service and modify more angels in a week than you do in a year. this thread has ruined a perfectly good place for the evolve valve to be discussed so its closed until further notice.

KEN CRANE

12-06-2004, 08:41 AM

and i quote tye , I took my WDP certification with Boston Paintball in 2002 when I was working as a freelance tech. I moved over to PnL paintball and was the lead tech for quite sometime. I've been servicing Angels for over 3 years now and know them inside and out, just like you guys. We have not made our new shop an official WDP location because we are not 100% sure we want to, after all of the problems we've been having.
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tye,boston paintball has never been able to provide you with a certification in 2002 2003 or 2000 anthony never serviced angels matt falbe did. now come on a technicition for goodman ? who are you kidding you know as well as i, mike and i are best friends and you would know that mike wouldnt service an angel if it ment needing the money for his last mikes lemonade. so dont fill the fourm with un truths and please dont subject the guys here to what you call honest testing becuse you cant.want to help them go right ahead we would ask you do but do it by stating facts not suggesting companies have problems or the such.next week there will be a complete thread on the evolve kit that will have all the info from everyone that will have them by then. the evolve kit goes in your angel 1n 30 minutes or so,gun gets tuned and pressures set and you go play thats how simple the evolve kit is no more no less.if your gun is properly tuned it works great if it is borderline or not working well the kit wont work well.

look i dont want to get into a pissing contest here with members and make this tye vs ken. from the beginning its been a problem giving a fair test first it was a bent breach rod, then a bad mini reg then a bad lpr , but relize its always something other than the evolve kit. the whole reason for the discussion should be how the evolve works not all the problems with tyes gun.this isnt fair to evolve at all espicialy when only 6 kits reside in the u.s. right now. after reading thru the threads people are basing the fact that the kit "sucks" by tyes so called testing and its just not fair the kit works as designed and works well providing you have properly maintained your gun.peege and myself spoke last night and i want him to understand that his product will get the best and fairest testing possiable and thats by you people. so next week we can go back to talking about facts but for now please just discuss the kit without judging the product.

P8ntSlinger44

12-06-2004, 01:11 PM

:samurai: Ken is the guy in green...the rest of you are the other guy. :pointandl

tye1138

12-06-2004, 01:38 PM

and for shooting 30,000 shots sorry pal i do that in 2-3 days as i service and modify more angels in a week than you do in a year. this thread has ruined a perfectly good place for the evolve valve to be discussed so its closed until further notice.

I'm sorry, but you guys just don't get the point. This sort of battling is EXACTLY what I don't like about Angels. You need to PROVE your a certified tech to gain any experience points. So in lue of this battle continuing, I can only beg to differ on points that have been made. You guys are the ones who have ruined the thread by disqualifying everybody but yourselves. I tried to help as much as I could, but with a constant bombardment of negative comments by yourselves, that's going to be impossible.

I my opinion you guys really turn me off to Angels and I'm not as insignificant as you assume I am. I've been talking people into Angels and before you guys posted, I was still working on them.

Now I really don't care anymore. Having to sit here and argue my credentials until I'm blue in the face, is not fun. So because I'm so insignificant then there is no reason to help in the quest to make these markers better, I'm going to stop pushing them. I'm going to sell Evolve's products and my Jam Plus bolt because I believe in them. But I don't have any reason to help expand the Angel population because all the "big wigs" of WDP care about is certifications of products and people who service them. All I care about is making products better and if you guys are the tip of WDP's ice berg in the US, then I have no reason to help anymore because you guys are "on-top" of your stuff. So congratulations on being unfriendly and unwise, keep it up, maybe everybody will believe you guys! I sure don't...

Sparco

12-06-2004, 01:46 PM

... he'll be back in a month. You made a big swan song thread over on PBN in the WDP forum and look at all your posting, now!

See this post about the "truth" behind your bolt.

http://www.angel-owners.com/showpost.php?p=296810&postcount=18

fife

12-06-2004, 02:07 PM

I'm sorry, but you guys just don't get the point. This sort of battling is EXACTLY what I don't like about Angels. You need to PROVE your a certified tech to gain any experience points. So in lue of this battle continuing, I can only beg to differ on points that have been made. You guys are the ones who have ruined the thread by disqualifying everybody but yourselves. I tried to help as much as I could, but with a constant bombardment of negative comments by yourselves, that's going to be impossible.

I my opinion you guys really turn me off to Angels and I'm not as insignificant as you assume I am. I've been talking people into Angels and before you guys posted, I was still working on them.

Now I really don't care anymore. Having to sit here and argue my credentials until I'm blue in the face, is not fun. So because I'm so insignificant then there is no reason to help in the quest to make these markers better, I'm going to stop pushing them. I'm going to sell Evolve's products and my Jam Plus bolt because I believe in them. But I don't have any reason to help expand the Angel population because all the "big wigs" of WDP care about is certifications of products and people who service them. All I care about is making products better and if you guys are the tip of WDP's ice berg in the US, then I have no reason to help anymore because you guys are "on-top" of your stuff. So congratulations on being unfriendly and unwise, keep it up, maybe everybody will believe you guys! I sure don't...

Are you "involved" with Evolve's product? It seems as if you are using their product to promo yours? No sarcasm intended, just a question. :)

tye1138

12-06-2004, 02:35 PM

Actually no, I'm trying to promote both products as a way of solving common ball breaking issues with Angels.

KEN CRANE

12-06-2004, 03:09 PM

I'm sorry, but you guys just don't get the point. This sort of battling is EXACTLY what I don't like about Angels. You need to PROVE your a certified tech to gain any experience points. So in lue of this battle continuing, I can only beg to differ on points that have been made. You guys are the ones who have ruined the thread by disqualifying everybody but yourselves. I tried to help as much as I could, but with a constant bombardment of negative comments by yourselves, that's going to be impossible.

I my opinion you guys really turn me off to Angels and I'm not as insignificant as you assume I am. I've been talking people into Angels and before you guys posted, I was still working on them.

Now I really don't care anymore. Having to sit here and argue my credentials until I'm blue in the face, is not fun. So because I'm so insignificant then there is no reason to help in the quest to make these markers better, I'm going to stop pushing them. I'm going to sell Evolve's products and my Jam Plus bolt because I believe in them. But I don't have any reason to help expand the Angel population because all the "big wigs" of WDP care about is certifications of products and people who service them. All I care about is making products better and if you guys are the tip of WDP's ice berg in the US, then I have no reason to help anymore because you guys are "on-top" of your stuff. So congratulations on being unfriendly and unwise, keep it up, maybe everybody will believe you guys! I sure don't...

and as she says "good bye" and by the way mike says hello...