View Full Version : What is ramping?
Carthage
06-02-2004, 01:24 PM
I noticed my A4 has all the different firing modes unlocked and one is ramp. I've heard 2 different definitions on what ramping is.
The first is when you reach a certain rof and the velocity starts creeping then goes back down when you stop shooting.
The second is when a certain rof is reached and it starts bouncing more. I thought this was called turbo, or are they the same thing?
Which, if any, are right?
dynastySSS
06-02-2004, 01:52 PM
and the correct answer is #2
i've heard both reffered to as ramping. the first one is a dwell ramp that is supposed to reduce shoot down associated with rfdo. but it usually increases fps instead of steadying it. but dynastysss is right and the second is also ramping.
Wonginator
06-02-2004, 07:15 PM
isnt that basically full auto? [when u hold the trig down] or are u supppose to specify the mrof or somethin
on some guns you specify the rof it engages at and the rof it shoots, ie. once 10 bps is shot the gun fires 8 times for every 6 pulls. happened in a tourney to redz factory. but you actually have to pull the trigger, unlike full-auto. it just kinda multiplies the times you pull the trigger.
mamba_juice
06-03-2004, 04:03 PM
there are two kinds of ramping, shot and dwell.
dwell ramping is done on nearly any electronic gun other than the e-blade. the robot you guys all refer too is a crock, it was designed to record ramping JUST ABOVE the ramp rate of the WAS board (jim drew wouldnt make his own product illegal).
nearly any board will ramp the dwell, it is from the excess voltage sent to the noid during high ROF. the only way to stop it is to burn it off into an LED (as done on the e-blade). some people are just stupid and program it so high that it will be caught.
the second ramp is shot ramp. this is where extra shots are added at higher ROF. the WAS board also does that, but the robot is programmed to not catch that extent also. it can also be related to bounce, but not in the WAS boards case
AngelBoi
08-05-2004, 12:52 AM
Huh
the ramp on my A4 is it will steadilly fire faster 1 bps till 13bps...on full auto
Jouster
08-05-2004, 01:58 AM
nearly any board will ramp the dwell, it is from the excess voltage sent to the noid during high ROF. the only way to stop it is to burn it off into an LED (as done on the e-blade). some people are just stupid and program it so high that it will be caught.
Hmmm, can't say as I've heard this one before. Walk though this "excess voltage" concept, as though I'm an EE.
Jouster
Hmm I got one of those degrees in Electronics (Associates of Applied Science in Electronic Engineering) but whos counting and can't say that some "excess voltage" means diddly (non-technical jargon). And also makes no sense... unless Mamba you can elaberate on your findings? E-blade works around this with an LED (light emmiting diode)? Sounds like a design flaw then. Enlighten me. At 15 years old you must be a prodigy child or going off what you read on the trustworthy web. Either way can you go into more detail as I would like to know?
Jouster
08-06-2004, 12:09 AM
nearly any board will ramp the dwell, it is from the excess voltage sent to the noid during high ROF. the only way to stop it is to burn it off into an LED (as done on the e-blade). some people are just stupid and program it so high that it will be caught.
In fact, the more that I think about it, the less this makes sense. Increasing the voltage you deliver to the solenoid wouldn't increase dwell; dwell is a matter of how long you deliver the voltage, not how much voltage you deliver.
Jouster
th_trey
08-06-2004, 04:20 PM
The LED on an eblade doesnt solve the ramping dwell. There is no dwell on a cocker
The solenoid is the 3 way, all that does is recock the gun ie controlling the ram.
Jouster
08-06-2004, 05:25 PM
The LED on an eblade doesnt solve the ramping dwell. There is no dwell on a cocker
The solenoid is the 3 way, all that does is recock the gun ie controlling the ram.
My initial suspicion, based on my admittedly-mostly-theoretical understanding of Autocockers, is that that is incorrect; that suspicion appears to be confirmed by a Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=autococker+dwell).
Are these guys just plain wrong? Does an Autococker work differently than I understand it to work?
Jouster
The way I understand it is that an E-cocker is a dual solenoid. The first solenoid releases the hammer, which open the valve. The second solenoid is the replacement three-way, which controls the re-cocking action. If my understanding is right, then an autococker would have a dwell based on when the valve is opened, (actuation of first solenoid) and when the valve is closed (actuation of second solenoid). So an autococker does have a dwell.
mrtheoutlaw
08-06-2004, 08:20 PM
dwell ramping is done on nearly any electronic gun other than the e-blade. the robot you guys all refer too is a crock, it was designed to record ramping JUST ABOVE the ramp rate of the WAS board (jim drew wouldnt make his own product illegal).
this statement confuses me...are u trying to say that jim drew had a hand in the design of the NPPL robot.
BlueAngel
08-06-2004, 11:18 PM
My initial suspicion, based on my admittedly-mostly-theoretical understanding of Autocockers, is that that is incorrect; that suspicion appears to be confirmed by a Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=autococker+dwell).
Are these guys just plain wrong? Does an Autococker work differently than I understand it to work?
Jouster
Jous, The control of the three way on the second solonoid adjusts the lenth of time the breach remains in the open state, to provide an opportunity for a ball to load, not the same as the dwell on angels
winter001
08-07-2004, 01:58 PM
There is only one solonoid on an E-Blade cocker. Dwell for a cocker would just be the amound of time between when the shot is fired (opening the valve) and when the ram recocks the hammer (closing the valve), assuming the valve spring in the cocker is light enough that it doesn't close on its own (most are, although some places like P&P Paintball build their customs with heavy valve springs). I also have no idea what dwell ramping is, like Jouster said more voltage would not make a difference since the dwell is determined by time and dwell is set through the software on the board. In order for there to be dwell ramping there would have to be a program that adjusted the dwell based on ROF. Maybe Mamba could also explain why there is "excess voltage" during high rates of fire? Excess voltage implies that there is some left over, like it doesn't all get used for something. Why is there not this same "excess" during low rates of fire?
-Chris
BlueAngel
08-07-2004, 09:37 PM
There is only one solonoid on an E-Blade cocker.
-Chris
Tell the people at Planet Eclipse, They seem to be under the Impresion that there are 2 solonoid's
http://www.planeteclipse.com/site/eNews.asp?newsID=61
mamba_juice
08-07-2004, 11:58 PM
ok, i'm sorry for not replying...i was absent for a week, those of you who frequent other forums i'm on know why.
the comment about the ramp is what a local electronics engineer told me...he has built boards for rainmakers, tribals, EM1's, and other guns that have come into the shop...so i figured he is trustworthy...i guess both of us are wrong on that, so i apoligize for misinforming anybody (it's not the first, and definately not the last time i've been wrong).
as for the e-blade...it uses two selenoids, one for the cocking of the gun and one for releasing the hammer, one transfers air, the other trips the sear.
winter001
08-09-2004, 04:17 PM
:wall: duh... forgot about the one in the grip frame
Kris1187
08-09-2004, 06:23 PM
ramping is once a selected rof has been reached (depending on the programming) shots will be added to every pull after that has been reached...so say the ramp is set to start at 8 bps...once you hit 9bps it actualy shoots 12bps...etc etc
BlueAngel
08-09-2004, 10:38 PM
ramping is once a selected rof has been reached (depending on the programming) shots will be added to every pull after that has been reached...so say the ramp is set to start at 8 bps...once you hit 9bps it actualy shoots 12bps...etc etc
Please read the thread before posting,, we already went over that
there are two kinds of ramping, shot and dwell.
dwell ramping is done on nearly any electronic gun other than the e-blade. the robot you guys all refer too is a crock, it was designed to record ramping JUST ABOVE the ramp rate of the WAS board (jim drew wouldnt make his own product illegal).
nearly any board will ramp the dwell, it is from the excess voltage sent to the noid during high ROF. the only way to stop it is to burn it off into an LED (as done on the e-blade). some people are just stupid and program it so high that it will be caught.
the second ramp is shot ramp. this is where extra shots are added at higher ROF. the WAS board also does that, but the robot is programmed to not catch that extent also. it can also be related to bounce, but not in the WAS boards case
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