updated cobra a4 info

[Jethro]

The following post is here for information regarding our Mamba '04.
We do not want this to become a Flaming thread, that way it will not get deleted like the last one did. We are trying to inform the Angel community about WDP and new Angel products.

We will post new information as we can release it.

We did today (04-09-04) release new info about our Mamba '04 and some new products.
http://www.cobrapaintball.com/Guns/Angel/Cobra_A4/cobra_a4.htm

More feature information will be released soon.

-Walter

[KEN CRANE]

the last one was deleted becuse on your web site you choose to take unnessesery cheap shots at the sponsors of this site.i see you removed that form your site.thank you

[mamba_juice]

ah...i see that that's the valve you guys have been talking about for a few years now...with this you should also make an internal LPR that would go along with it...but i cant help but ask just how good the flow properties are and the amount of possible volume that this would take up in the power tube, being that more volume in there = lower pressures

[RonnyMcDYO]

When are you guys going to release to the information on the new gun cause id like to know if its worth me spending the extra money to get one of your guns, if you know what im saying. And I am reffering to this major new feature the mamba a4 has.

[Jethro]

...but i cant help but ask just how good the flow properties are and the amount of possible volume that this would take up in the power tube, being that more volume in there = lower pressures

The inside of the valve is milled out and is actually less mass than the guide that would hold the spring.

We will release more info as we can. That goes the same for the price.

-Walter

[RonnyMcDYO]

Will that valve be available for the older generation angel models, the LCD's and IR3's?

[Jethro]

It is being worked on. But the design best serves the Speed, A4, and Fly.

-Walter

[Jouster]

Is the surface area of the holes in the "back" of the valve equal to the circumference of the exhaust valve stem times the amount by which the stem cap clears the guide housing, times a factor to account for uneven pressurization in the chamber, plus a suitable fudge factor? If not, this valve will decrease flow, not increase it.

I'm puzzled as to why you went with an enclosed design that has separate and discrete air entry points. As a simple example, if I were to wish to create something similar, I'd actually have it be a cone shape, possibly expanding back up at the end into a three-pointed cross for stability of the spring anchor and (optionally) mounting of a retaining o-ring. Then, you could have:
a) Lower displacement. (i.e., "less mass", to repeat your incorrect term from up above)
b) Higher airflow (more places for air entering the main body of the valve)
c) Easier service (the air passages would double as service passages for replacing springs and stems)
d) Less turbulent airflow (perfectly radially-symmetrical airflow that doesn't have "blank spots" where the connectors are on your valve between the "inner circle" and "outer circle".

Not trying to flame here, just trying to either provide design insight or understand the design better by exposing my ignorance thereof.

Okay, I was flaming a little when I made fun of the "mass" versus "displacement" thing. But that was in good humor; I'm also a grammar whore, so being anal about such things sorta comes natural. :wink: :)

Jouster

[mamba_juice]

youre not the only one...i was thinking the same thing along the lines of "now how do we improve this"

but hey...where would the world be without tinkerers?

[RonnyMcDYO]

I am slightly curious to this new valve as well. If your stuffing that in where the old valve chamber is then your taking up air volume which would either decrease the air volume in their, or require you to crank up the output on your tank to get more pressure inside the smaller space? Will this really help with performance or hinder it?

[Jethro]

At this point, we have only shown you the outside image of the valve. Until we release all the information and the product, all that people can do is speculate and theorize on the performance.
I can tell you this; we will not release a product that doesn’t work.

-Walter

[mamba_juice]

well of course it's going to work...it's only a question of what exactly this improves over the stock valve...there are things you can do to the stock one that can do wonders. the thing i would have focused on is to try to make a better flowing internal LPR and mini-reg...those are the only real things that can be improved for much good on an angel...sure you can do more, but you would have to do it to everything in order to see any real good results. i just hope that this isn't the big innovative thing that you guys were thinking of. i myself, like jouster can see a lot of things that can be improved on just the external design, being that volume in the chamber is one of them...by the cad drawings i can tell that the outer walls will be somewhat thick, and therefore decrease volume...unless there is a whole different system on the inside, i really dont see that much of an improvement

[Jethro]

This is not the upgrade that we have been working on for our Mamba '04.

(it says so on the website)

That info is still to come.

-Walter

[Worr Angel]

m...by the cad drawings i can tell that the outer walls will be somewhat thick, and therefore decrease volume...

Are you serious? Since when does external milling have anything to do with internal volume?

People, lets all be nice and courteous until the thing comes out. Just like we are with the MT's.

[Jarret]

i my self am looking forward to this new angel, because of cobras past guns i believe this new A4 will be something "new and innovative" compared to the other angels out like the Force even though it is a strong competitor. If by some stroke of misfortune Cobra fails to produce a leading marker then Force will be my next choice, but i still plan on purchasing a Mamba.

[Neurosis]

Wow, One post, Im sure that isn't biased in any form or fashion. We'll see how "innovative" this gun is when it comes out, you would think that people trying to promote a product would at least give some info as to what was so "innovative" ,if you ask me its just as big a cop-out as saying something like "our gun can shoot as fast as your hopper can feed"

[mamba_juice]

Are you serious? Since when does external milling have anything to do with internal volume?

People, lets all be nice and courteous until the thing comes out. Just like we are with the MT's.


take a good look at it...it must be an entirely different system of valve in order to attain less volume. the whole valve takes up space in the power tube...the exterior and the interior...i really do doubt that this will have much of an improvement over the stock fly valve.

as for the flaming, it's what happens when you release something, all businesses are subject to it. im sure that there are just as many people that didnt like the force milling. as a business you should be prepared for suggestions and possible improvements from the public, along with both critisism and praise...i'm sure that there are things that can be improved even on the master tech's things...the thing is that the other MT's are waiting to release thier things. have you seen the new force valve? i know i havent, and when they do release it, if it's not absolutely perfect there will be people like me and jouster that will think of improvements for it.

people just need to know that there will always be tinkerers that seek every way to improve things :pileocrap :pileocrap

[Jarret]

Neurosis- dude 1 post on these forums, and what does the # of posts mean Anything towards my experience with guns or companies guns. Keep your comments to yourself were discussing the cobras Mamba A4 not your doubts and bad experiences with previous guns you may have owned.

[Emmit]

Jarret...I just think that he's doubting your sincerety since you joined today, and used your first post to promote the Mamba...while I personally don't care it does seem fishy to some people...see the point? Welcome aboard tho.

[Jarret]

o... well i wanted to post on it because im lookin to buy one and Angel owners groups seems the better forum to get all the info. I said though if its not all its "hyped" up to be Force will be my immidiate choice. :) thx man for the warm and fuzzy welcome ill be even happier when i own an angel and can honestly say im the owner of the Original machine gun. :)
Does anyone have any more info on it? Ive asked around at my local field and a ir3 owner who is the local pro teams back player said "Cobra doesnt really have a lifetime warranty, and alot of the extra 200$ is going to that warranty." I dont know if its true because it sounds like gossip but does anyone have any stories or experiences with his or her Mamba's warranty (good or bad) or general comments?

[RonnyMcDYO]

I dont mean to cut up Cobra I have always liked their products, but I cant wait to have some information on these new parts and features.

[Kdog-13]

"Cobra doesnt really have a lifetime warranty....

Cobra has had a lifetime warranty on all cobras since the first one was sold. It is an original owner warranty though.

I am amazed everytime people are surprised when they buy a used mamba and expect a transferable parts and labor warranty. It is like the people that think the orginal force owners should get a free fly upgrade. I mean if that happens wow, that would be cool, but are the techs planning on losing $350 a gun? (I thought I read that the upgrade will cost that much).

btw: who is the back player that said they don't have a warranty? I knew a guy who cut his opto board spring and then told cobra he wanted a new board under warranty. I would be surprised if any shop would take that loss.

[KEN CRANE]

the force 4 warranty is transferable to any second owner for a fee of 75.00.and verifcation of condition is required.as a matter of fact i am doing an inspection of sparco's orange force 4 this week.

[garrick]

I saw the pics but it looks so much like the mamba IR3. something a little different would be nice. as far as performance would it be better than force 4 with eyes?

[Kdog-13]

the force 4 warranty is transferable to any second owner for a fee of 75.00.and verifcation of condition is required.as a matter of fact i am doing an inspection of sparco's orange force 4 this week.

That is a nice service! Well worth $75 if you are going to keep the gun!

[Jouster]

At this point, we have only shown you the outside image of the valve. Until we release all the information and the product, all that people can do is speculate and theorize on the performance.
I can tell you this; we will not release a product that doesn’t work.

-Walter
Don't doubt that it'll work, just wondering if it can be improved.

Do y'all have a patent on your design? Would you be opposed to me heading out to a machine shop and making up my design and seeing how it works?

Jouster

[Jarret]

heh joust is ownin up on cobra :P I think im going to go with the force. I emailed cobra twice about the gun just simple questions about even their ir3 model, they ignored it. :wall: MT seems to have the better deal for the money, and im deffinatly not paying more than 1600 for a mamba....unless its somehow "that much better"
better change my tag.....

[cvl]

heh joust is ownin up on cobra :P I think im going to go with the force. I emailed cobra twice about the gun just simple questions about even their ir3 model, they ignored it. :wall: MT seems to have the better deal for the money, and im deffinatly not paying more than 1600 for a mamba....unless its somehow "that much better"
better change my tag.....

I personally never saw your emails, if you have questions then send them, I'll answer them for you.

[BoB]

Going a direction which cannot be good. I have closed the thread and will re-open once new information has been made available.

[Emmit]

Going a direction which cannot be good. I have closed the thread and will re-open once new information has been made available.
Agreed.

Cobra wanted to talk about their new marker that's fine. We don't however need to turn it into an opportunity for people to attempt to bash them and/or childish name calling.

[KEN CRANE]

thread cleaned

[tgallo]

http://www.cobrapaintball.com/Guns/Angel/Cobra_A4/cobra_a4.htm

[mamba_juice]

it looks good, but would still like to see a little bit more milling on the back. good to see someone incorporated the rail into the grip frame

[JTp8ntballer12]

more milling would look good, but i think it looks kinda goofy because it uses the same old grips, i owuld rather use a .45 or a space frame (mainly for looks) but it may feek really good so i dont know

[dynastySSS]

i dont liek ill stick with my force

[akes]

Looks kinda nice, if it was Anodized Black, blk grips & Marker it would show alot bettor

Makes the Cobra Different & thats what they are Going For, Good JOB

------------- Big Al

[JTp8ntballer12]

well i dont really think they gave us a good angle, they should show us straight up and flat, not at an angel cus then you cant really see exactly how much is bent. i stopped by cobra today and didnt see anything there, but then my mom was in a hurry and i didnt want to take time asking all about it.

[BruceLeroy]

Looks cool. But, it looks like the grips don't fit evenly on the frame. Personally, if I were to produce my own frame I'd make my own grips also. Is this the innovative product they were talking about? I was wondering what it would be.

[JTp8ntballer12]

yea thats the new innovative thing, new gripd would def be very cool

[MoogLe]

cant really make anything out of it from the angle like jt said...

[JTp8ntballer12]

when i pick up my gun from cobra on friday ill ask em about it :)

[wiCKedBURN49]

well you also got to remember those are just CAD drawings, when we get pics of the actual gun then we can all look on in aw or disgust...time will tell

[JTp8ntballer12]

those are not cad pics, those are real pictures, just not polished and colored yet

[52brandon]

I think he meant the pics of the gun itself which are cad pics. Also, the new innovative thing could be the new valve :notsure:

[Kdog-13]

Definately ask to try it out when you go in. I saw it online and went in on the way home. Very comfortable. The dove tail coupled with the low rise makes the fly comfortable and small.

[krispy]

I can't wait to see how the new valve pans out. Is that all we will need? No more spring, rod w/cup seal and how boot the plastic rocket looking thing.

[KEN CRANE]

no more thats it i mean it !!!!!! no more speculating no more i thinks please.

[KEN CRANE]

well its ok to ask or wonder but it does no good to speculate and cause any un due misinformation before things are officialy released by walter.my take on this as i dont feel its a fair thing to do.

[pgaglio]

Gun looks very good, can't wait to see actual pics. There was an April '04 release date, but Cobra is running out of time. :cryer:

Definitely a toss-up between this and the Force....or maybe one of each.

[Jarret]

one of each... wow ... if you really buy both... well good i wish i could so, damn lol go ahead ill just envy u :D i dunno ... FORCE cough

[garrick]

the grips don't fit. even when they anodize the frame it will look funky, too homemade. stop messing with the frame and make the marker. may is around the corner. buy a force fly. better warranty and more dealers.

[mamba_juice]

i dunno....i think that the people that like the space will stick with the space, the people that like the 45 will stick with the 45, and the people who like this will stick with this....just my $0.02

[RonnyMcDYO]

Well actually if you think aboot that new valve it isnt decreasing volume at all as they said the guide is gone and basically it all equals out. As for the new improved feature no the grip isnt it, and neither is the valve, they still havent told us what the new feature is yet. I was curious though, if you order a Mamba A4 and get the fierce frame and you dont like it, can you send it back for a space frame free of charge? As well do you guys plan on making grips that are made for the fierce, cause using the 90 Grips looks kinda goofy =P. I will say right now, I love the Mamba Milling and when I can afford one of these things I am definitely, getting one, especially now that it isnt just an A4 with better miling, cause I got gyped on my Ir3, I paid 3450 Canadian for it, kinda sucks but it is a nice gun.

[Jarret]

so when you get "gyped" you dont wonder about maybe MT's force?.... i just wish cobra would release this gun so that we could all make up our minds

[winter001]

I don't really get how the valve increases chamber volume. Is it just me or wouldn't it seem like tube that holds the spring would decrease the chamber size? I do like the idea of a completly self contained valve however.

[RonnyMcDYO]

Well what I mean by gyped was that my paintball shop had to buy the gun at regular price, then pay border taxes and what not, which put the price up. Then I had to pay taxes on top of that myself, and yea it sucked. So if I do get another one im going directly from Cobra, I was new back then didnt know much aboot border stuff and paintball. And it wont decrease chamber size, because they can make the walls of their valve rather thin, and by taking out the guide you lose metal mass at the front. So basically they have moved metal from one end and disperesed it, in fact you can even get more volume from this type of design.

[RonnyMcDYO]

Any news on the gun, its now may, im guessing you guys have hit a wall or something?

[Cliffio]

no kidding, ive been waiting for this gun since december!!

[Emmit]

Any news on the gun, its now may, im guessing you guys have hit a wall or something?
I honestly think you're asking in the wrong place...Cobra does not frequent these boards, and their visits are usually few and far between:wink:

[Psychic]

Their webpage says that there has been a slight delay from the factory (WDP) so it is likely that they will be available around the end of May. Check their webpage for updates.