Bonebrake Mod.

[js3324]

Hey,

I know theres already atleast 3 threads on this, but I would like to know EVERYONE's opinion on this mod. Whether its worth the money for a warranty and a "low pressure mod" Heres a poll, please respond! We all want to know what everyone thinks.

[Action75]

i have a Bonebrake IR3 and it works absolutly perfect. The mod drops the pressure to 300...or less, meaning that you get more shots per tank....a lot more seeing as though regulare IR3's run from 500 psi on up, so you can tell right there how much air your saving. I have also noticed that with the reworked internals, the gun as a whole operates a ton smoother, which is hard to say seeing as though a regular IR3 is very smooth to start out with.

http://www.angel-owners.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=17992

[justa' bum]

what exactly does the mod. change? new internals? if so... what? how much does it cost? after you get it, is there a warentee on the IR3?

[Action75]

it costs 275 for the upgrade. All the internals are milled out to allow lower psi. You also get a bonebrake bolt and ss hammer and bonebrake pro series decals on the side of the gun. i can effectively run my gun a t 300psi with no drop off or anything...shots just as if i were shooting it at 850 psi

[Skream9]

Waste of money.

[Tempest261]

300...or less, meaning that you get more shots per tank....a lot more seeing as though regulare IR3's run from 500 psi on up, so you can tell right there how much air your saving.

Actually, that's not true... lowering the pressure will NOT save you air. Most HP guns get far more shots per tank than LP guns.

Don't automatically assume everything (hype) you hear is true.

[Action75]

But i do get more shots...lol, why dont you want to believe me?

[5150]

What is the web site? and How long does it take?

[ccrawley]

skream9.....

why do you say a waste of money, is that from personal experience or what ?

[Tempest261]

well first off I don't believe that it has any improvement when they claim "greater range", because that's impossible.

Second, you'll notice that pretty much all of the teams that bonebreak was on, he'd shoot his bonebreak angel, but none of his teammates would. If it made THAT big of an improvement, then I think some of his teammates would have said "hey dan, give me a deal on an upgrade" but instead I think they all knew better since they left their angels WDP style.

[Action75]

Tempest you make no sense at all. I know that everyone is entitled to their views...but what your saying is wrong. Here are some facts:
1) The mod does not make the ball fly further than it physically can given gravity, velocity and time, however, the balls follow a much closer grouping at 20 yards.
2)You DO get more shots per tank, period. I went a whole day, and only needed to get air twice, once at the beginning and once at the end and i shot almost 2 cases.
3)Tempest, you say that a lot of the players on Dan's teams dont play with Bonebrake angel's?! i've played on one of his teams(Rat-Paq out of Vegas) And we ALL shot Bonebrake's.
the mod works great, its worth the money, and the turn around period from the time you ship it to them and get it back is 2-3weeks.

[Action75]

alright, i edited..thanks for keeping me in line, sometimes i get carried away and talk before i calm down.

[Tempest261]

1) The mod does not make the ball fly further than it physically can given gravity, velocity and time, however, the balls follow a much closer grouping at 20 yards.

You weren't saying this two weeks ago... I guess you actually picked up a physics book! WAY TO GO! :clap:


2)You DO get more shots per tank, period. I went a whole day, and only needed to get air twice, once at the beginning and once at the end and i shot almost 2 cases.

Big deal. My stock IR3 has done more than a case on a single 68/45 fill. I'm still not seeing an explanation of why this mod is worth wasting all of that money for.

[Hep]

I voted no but after reading this

Originally posted by Action75
....and bonebrake pro series decals on the side of the gun

it might be worth it. :rollseyes

[staticxpb88]

Originally posted by Tempest261


Actually, that's not true... lowering the pressure will NOT save you air. Most HP guns get far more shots per tank than LP guns.

Don't automatically assume everything (hype) you hear is true.

if you think this is true then thinkk about the IR3- crap load of shots per tank at 500 psi. and the shocker- alot less shots per tank at 180 psi.

Chris

[Action75]

yes, but as we all know, the shocker is a gas hog, it is not even close to the angel when it comes to gas effeciency. the angel is very very gas effecient, which is why even though the shocker operates at a lower pressure, it still gets less shots(but even then i dont know if a shocker gets less shots, seeing as though i've never shot one, im just going on what static said).

[Emmit]

simple rule of thumb to remember...

High Pressure/Low Volume
Low Pressure/High Volume

[Chigga]

My mag lasted a hell of a lot longer than any of the other guns I've shot... I can shoot a mag all day and never fill

[Syentific]

There comes a specific number or small range of numbers for each gun, depending on the parts you have chosen where LP turns to less efficiency.

This comes from countless hours of cocker tuning and many nights of no sleep. Anyone can turn the hex nut on their reg and say, "look. I'm running 15psi into my gun...", but it cycles like $hit if it cycles at all. OK, maybe 15psi is overstated, but you get the point.

Your gun has a magical number of input psi where if you choose to go past it, you will need to start compensating by either dwell, bigger valves(hiflo), freeflo mod, or to the extreme of letting someone mill out your right channel to house more air. This is all done in compensation for lowering your input.

Bottom line, you can lower the input pressure of your gun, but at some point you are not "improving" performance anymore, you are JUST LOWERING THE PRESSURE.

[Old Timer]

Just some ramblings....there seems to be this blind stamped to get every thing to operate at a lower pressure, as if this will make the marker more efficient, break fewer balls. shoot farther, more accurate. more shots per fill, etc. The only thing that is achieved in my opinion is the transfer of money from your pocket to the pocket of the manufactures of low pressure. magic hocus-pocus acessories.

I keep hearing this "high pressure, low volume / low pressure, high volume" saying, as if it accurately means something.....NOT !!! THE ACTUAL VOLUME/AMOUNT OF AIR (at atomospheric pressure) USED TO SHOOT THE BALL, TO A GIVEN VELOCITY, IS THE SAME REGARDLESS OF THE MARKERS OPERATING PRESSURE, WHEN ALL OTHER CONDITIONS ARE EQUAL . It takes the same amount of energy or actual volume of air to shoot a ball at 280 fps from the same marker regardless of the pressure. The only two things that are different is (1) the TIME to accelerate the ball to 280 fps due to the (2) different pressures pushing the ball......the actual volume/amount of air is the same.

Because of the above, one CAN NOT get more shoots from a low pressure marker set up than from the same marker set up for high pressure. If this is still not making sinse yet to you, think about a 45 cubic inch nitrogen tank at 4500 psi and a 68 cui nitrogen tank at 3000 psi each holding about the same actual volume/amount of air at atmospheric pressure.

Then in this same conection, if a gun is converted to lower pressure the airways and valves in the gun must be larger to enable a larger volume/amount of slower air at lower pressure to flow which will be equal in energy to the same volume/amount of faster air at a higher pressure. At high or low preasure the atmospheric VOLUME of air is the same it is only pressurised into a larger (low pressure) or smaller (high pressure) space.

Now whether or not high or low preasure results in fewer ball breaks, more accuracy, etc is doubtfull when one considers that a round paintball is not consistant in size or shell quality from the same bag nor is a "ball" dynamically stable as a projectle. The same companys that make our paintballs also make, for a higher price, elongated paint bullets for law enforcement for more accuracy.....Just some thoughts....Happy New Year....Chuck

[C.Carles-AOG]

Old Timer, I agree with some of your ramblings. I will say all parts have a specific "effciency operating range". Past a certain point all the honing, use of better materials, etc. will actually result in a LOSS of efficiency.
Let's use a turbo as an example, you can boost psi all day, but it has a specific range where it's most comfortable and will perform best. Below or ABOVE that and you've gone past what you wanted, which is/was better performance.
I'll say it yet again, this whole low pressure (LP) hype started as people were interested in making their markers more efficient. They started with the obvious, better parts made to more exacting tolerances. As a SIDE-EFFECT (read by-product, not the main goal) they noticed that the operating pressure of the gun was lowered. Because of this more efficient operation you could indeed get more shots out of your tank (this is where I disagree with your previous statements Old Timer, I have verified this myself that I do indeed get more shots per tank although I have no real scientific explanation as of yet even though I do have recorded data to support it).
BUT this is where it all went south. People started looking at the operating pressure ALONE as a determining factor as opposed to looking at efficiency (shots per fill). They paid no mind to efficency and went for the easiest attainable number, something that can be measured very easily is pressure, just let a gauge readout tell you what it's at, as opposed to making sure fills were the same on tanks, on the same well tuned gun, with the same paint and barrell, with same temperatures (you get the point, LOTS of variables) to make sure they were indeed getting more shots per fill. Trust me I took into account as many variables as I could and jotted down gobs of info to come up with around 120 shots more per fill. I thought it was worth it for two reasons. I knew I was running a more efficient gun, and a smoother operating gun with better parts increasing my reliability and dependability.
Now, I beg of you, I plead with you, stop the LP nonsense...

[C]-[iLDe]

Originally posted by Action75
...The mod drops the pressure to 300...or less, meaning that you get more shots per tank....a lot more seeing as though regulare IR3's run from 500 psi on up, so you can tell right there how much air your saving...

isnt the suggest output from the minireg on a stock angel around 350 psi? Thats not a dramatic enough decrease to warrant the expense IMO.

[Everclear]

My head hurts. All this rambling makes me want to go back to a cocker. Something I understand a lot beter. hmm..

[joeymdz]

hey hey........ this is JOEy from Planet Paintball (the Bonebrake guys) and i had to respond to this post.

if Tempest261 thinks its a waste of money then good for you. but i take it that you probably never shot a Bonebrake before. and your response will be "I have shot a Bonebrake before" ......blah blah blah I bet you have! lol

on IR3's we improve on the performance of the marker by adding our own Bonebrake N-60 SS hammer, Bonebrake open face bolt, and machined down LPR for better air flow. and to mention that we fine tune the marker extensively to our specs. all that is backed up by a limited lifetime warranty.

turn around time is less that 2 weeks (we get them out usually in a couple of days)

call me here for pricing on the mod or mail me at: planetpaintball@mcleodusa.net


later


JOEy
Sales/ Customer Rep

Planet Paintball
2688 Cherry Ave NE
Salem, OR 97303
503.370.8749
danbonebrake.com

[cpmd]

does the bonebreak mod effect your rate of fire?


-Chris

[joeymdz]

why would it affect your rate of fire???


JOEy

[cpmd]

I don't know, that is why i am asking.

-Chris

[C.Carles-AOG]

I suppose that cpmd is getting at the fact that the ram needs a certain sustained amount of psi to keep cycling reliably and fast. Was that it cpmd??

[joeymdz]

its fine...... trust me. as long as you have good flowing tank your all good


later


JOEy

[cpmd]

yes, C.Charles, right on the money. Everything is much clearer now.



-Chris

[Eyecare]

Anyone else try the Bonebrake mod on their gun?

[Spaced]

Wounder how mutch it will $$ i have to pay?

Sometimes it sucks to live i sweden.I´ts a killer to swin across the little "swimingpoll" that´s betwen us =)

[FamousFallChild]

ill go with skream9 it is a waste of money my dark works just fine