Palm Software

[clubin78]

I havn't been online for a while. Is there any info on when the A4's palm software is coming out or if it's coming out? If it is already out where can I get it? Hope you guys can help.

[Reverserewind]

last we were told was that it's a dead issue and it's not going to be released. Much to the dissapointment of a lot of people. I really hope they reconsider!!

[abom]

I've seen a guy post an e-mail message from Fraiser (WDP's online tech), he said it will be released soon.

[Sparco]

Jouster supposedly has developed a working solution. I know I've been working on a VB interface but I was struggling with the IR language. It's not rocket science, it's just time consuming.

[clubin78]

Thanks Guys. I hope something does come out it would be a lot easier to fine tune the A4 if we didn't have to take the grip off.

[Jouster]

I have a working Palm interface that exposes far more than I care to expose to the casual Angel'er (so to speak). WDP has assured me, though, that the A4 Palm software is still very much in development, and I'm willing to give them about a month to prove it before I start working on stripping some of the more "fun" features out of my software and offering it on my website.

In other words, wait a month--one way or another, you'll have your software. :)

Jouster

[lcplwan]

AFIRM J-MAN! :tunes:

[kevine]

Hey Jouster, if nothing comes out, would you mind uploading the link for your software here?

[vineas]

Anyone know if there will be a Pocket PC ver of it this time around?

[Jouster]

Hey Jouster, if nothing comes out, would you mind uploading the link for your software here?
Like I said above, I would need to take out a bunch of functionality and add one heck of a lot of polish before I could do that, but I'm not even going to bother trying until at least a month from now. I have to give WDP a fair dinkum chance.


Anyone know if there will be a Pocket PC ver of it this time around?
No, I do not believe there will be. I haven't heard that there won't be, mind you, but I interpret WDP's silence on it combined with their past policy of Palm only to mean that there won't be a Pocket PC version this time around.

Once I see what functionality they expose in their software, I might convince myself to do a Pocket PC version, but it doesn't seem terribly likely.

Jouster

[Panzerr]

I had read earlier that WDP had no plans on putting out palm software for the angel 4...i thought this was rather stupid. What's the point of having the vernier wheels to adjust the trigger without cracking the grips if you have to crack the grips to adjust your settings?

I truely do hope this software becomes available by the time I get home from Bosnia (1 month to go, yay!). I loved that feature on my ir3 and really hope to be able to use it on my angel 4.

[vap0r]

Nice cracking! We'll all benefit from your effort!

Any features in there to completely change the "LIVE" mode text or the "SAFE" mode text?

[Sparco]

I wouldn't mind a software crack that would disable the 3-second delay on going from LIVE to SAFE. I like the one button push of going LIVE, wish I had that to go SAFE as well. Sometimes I won't hold it long enough and look for the green light.

[Hep]

The instant on would be ideal but instant shut off might be a hastle as far as in game goes. Shutting your gun off on accident would suck. Not too mention Reffs tend to frown on powering your gun down and then on during a game.

[Panzerr]

i agree with Sparco. I'd like the 3 second delay shortened. I'm not too worried about accidentally switching my marker off during a game. Those buttons are recessed enough IMO. You'd have more chance of accidentally switching the "on/off" toggle switch than one of the buttons on the grip.

[Emmit]

you might think those buttons are reset enough, but I've actually hit my COPS on/off on my IR3, and I've both turned on and off timers on accident in the middle of a game.

[Sparco]

Well I've never hit my buttons. All I want is the delay shortened. :)

[ZULU]

I definatly second the Idea of changing the LIVE and SAFE text add's more custom to your angel

[Panzerr]

shortening the delay and changing the safe text would be all dobro, but really....

i would be really happy with any palm software for my angel 4

[vineas]

Once I see what functionality they expose in their software, I might convince myself to do a Pocket PC version, but it doesn't seem terribly likely.
Jouster

If I knew the structures and values being passed in the link, I wouldn't mind making a pocket PC ver myself (I'm a software engineer off the field). I was tempted to try and hack this, but am not sure if I'm up to it.

[Jouster]

If I knew the structures and values being passed in the link, I wouldn't mind making a pocket PC ver myself (I'm a software engineer off the field). I was tempted to try and hack this, but am not sure if I'm up to it.
Hack away. It was certainly a rather entertaining education in remarkably poor protocol design for yours truly. Then again, I'm used to designing copy-protection systems, so I'm probably a little biased in favor of exceedingly robust, proven, trusted data-transfer strategies, rather than the (admittedly rather interesting) ad-hoc protocol WDP uses.

Just please don't release your software to others if WDP follows through on their promise of legit software.

Oh, and an open offer--if you (meaning anyone) develop any substantial portion of an alternate control software, including at least one feature not desireable for general release, and send it to me, I'll send you the encoding for the other functions you haven't figured out yet if you promise never to release your software.

Jouster

[paulskate]

If anyone gets the crack please let me know also, i would love those features, i was hoping it came out so i can use some cool features

[Jouster]

If anyone gets the crack please let me know also, i would love those features, i was hoping it came out so i can use some cool features
Sorry, but the point of my offer was to entice people who already have the power to do so to not release it to others. (Sorry about the split infinitive.)

Obviously, if someone else develops their software without any help from me, then they're welcome to message you, but if I give them my documentation, it'll come with an NDA and a confidentiality agreement.

Please don't encourage people to make and distribute software that jeopardizes the tournament legality and resale value of our very expensive, very precious(sssssss) guns.

Jouster

[Worr Angel]

Please don't encourage people to make and distribute software that jeopardizes the tournament legality and resale value of our very expensive, very precious(sssssss) guns.Jouster

That is not our responsibility to control. If WDP would put this out then people wouldn't have to hack it. IF a pirated program does get out then you can only blame WDP. the future of this is completely in their own control.

If/when I develop mine I will share with all. It is the manufacturers responsibility to keep us from haveing to do this.

[paulskate]

I bought the gun because it said i could access features through the ir3 link(only one reason i bought it), so i was like cool, just like on the ir3. Now it might not happen, because wdp might not make the software. It is sorta like the thing with the ir3, they said it had like 20 different firing modes, but it didnt tell you that you cant use it.

[thog94]

:cry: :goaway:

[C]-[iLDe]

So has anyone heard anything definite yet? Any new developments?

Hopefully someone will just release the damn software already, instead of being all secretive and anal about it.

[Sparco]

I've developed a pretty stable VB environment but I can't get the darn IR port to interface to test just how stable it is.

I was tempted to bring it with me to the tech class this weekend to get some feedback but I'm still debating that as well. No sense in pissing off anyone.

Fear not... it's still a work in progress.

[Jouster]

I've developed a pretty stable VB environment but I can't get the darn IR port to interface to test just how stable it is.

I was tempted to bring it with me to the tech class this weekend to get some feedback but I'm still debating that as well. No sense in pissing off anyone.

Fear not... it's still a work in progress.
Bring it. I'll take a look, outside of class.

I'm not bringing my program at all, though--too much danger of people becoming upset. But I'd be happy to look over yours and offer suggestions if you adhere to my declaration up above (basically, you gotta give WDP a chance to release the "pure" software). Interested?

Jouster

[Sparco]

Bring it. I'll take a look, outside of class.

Sounds like a plan, perhaps the weekend after the tech class. My time outside of the hotel this weekend will be limited, as it's the girlfriend's weekend off and she has plans for us each night.

[C]-[iLDe]

...I'm not bringing my program at all, though--too much danger of people becoming upset....(you gotta give WDP a chance to release the "pure" software)

Why are you trying so hard to stop the flow of information? It should be free.

If youre a WDP employee then that's one thing, but i don't see why anyone is obligated to give WDP the chance to release anything first. That's not how capitalism works LOL. If anyone out there has the skill and knowledge to implement this software then they should. If WDP misses out on a chance to release it, too bad.

I wish i could create the software; I'd make it available to everyone who wanted it, for free.


That is not our responsibility to control. If WDP would put this out then people wouldn't have to hack it. IF a pirated program does get out then you can only blame WDP. the future of this is completely in their own control.

If/when I develop mine I will share with all. It is the manufacturers responsibility to keep us from haveing to do this.

well said, i agree.

[Jouster]

-[iLDe']Why are you trying so hard to stop the flow of information? It should be free.

If youre a WDP employee then that's one thing, but i don't see why anyone is obligated to give WDP the chance to release anything first. That's not how capitalism works LOL. If anyone out there has the skill and knowledge to implement this software then they should. If WDP misses out on a chance to release it, too bad.

I wish i could create the software; I'd make it available to everyone who wanted it, for free.
Well, since you apparently won't be motivated by my other, stronger reasons for believing in giving WDP a chance, how about this:

It costs me money to release this software.

Several ways that this is the case: first, I have a lawsuit hanging over my head under the DMCA. It'd be my argument that I'm reverse-engineering solely for purposes of compatibility, but even if I'm right, WDP could conceivably sue me shirtless in lawyers' fees alone.

Even if that doesn't pan out, it hurts me because my A4 will have a resale value of approximately $0 if A4's aren't tournament-legal any more (and I suspect that they wouldn't be if I released my software in the state that it's in right now).

Finally, see the point above? It applies to others. Let's say I charged for the software to make up for my loss. Even if I make money by doing that, I'm screwing over all the other A4 owners in the process. No thanks. But, then again, I'm getting into moral/ethical grounds again, which is apparently outside of your concern.

In summation: WDP still has a little while longer (but not much!) to release their software. I promised Frazer that much, and I don't break promises.

Jouster

[C]-[iLDe]

...I have a lawsuit hanging over my head under the DMCA. It'd be my argument that I'm reverse-engineering solely for purposes of compatibility, but even if I'm right, WDP could conceivably sue me shirtless in lawyers' fees alone...

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the DMCA? I'm not sure how it relates to the issue.

...WDP still has a little while longer...to release their software. I promised Frazer that much, and I don't break promises...

Staying true to your word? That i can understand. Good enough.

[C]-[iLDe]

Any new developments with this software yet?

[wdp child]

ya, its been a month sense you said they had a month...

[Panzerr]

i'm assuming this won't be compatible with the a4 fly

[Jouster]

i'm assuming this won't be compatible with the a4 fly
Different software build, so I don't know if it'll work or not. I suspect it'll just require a tweak to some constants.

Jouster

[52brandon]

but what is going on with the software Jouster? Are you going to have suggested settings and stuff for it if you do release it or is it all going to be trial and error? Are you even going to release it?

[Jouster]

but what is going on with the software Jouster? Are you going to have suggested settings and stuff for it if you do release it or is it all going to be trial and error? Are you even going to release it?
Ever played with SexyAngel, in the downloads section? It bears some similarity to that. I'm trying to bolt on a user interface as we speak, but I'm terrible at UI design, so I'm having an aesthetically-talented friend do some mock-ups fo rme.

Jouster

[52brandon]

I just checked out sexy angel, that would be really cool if you adapt that to the A4. I assume it will have higher ROF options, like up to 35 or 40 to unlock the board (I hope). So does that mean that you will release it now, too? (another I hope)

[paulskate]

i dont think giving out software would hurt the resale, i saw unlocked ir3 sell for the same or more price as regular, most people want unlocked guns

[Jouster]

i dont think giving out software would hurt the resale, i saw unlocked ir3 sell for the same or more price as regular, most people want unlocked guns
You clearly didn't read my argument. Besides, this isn't about unlocking guns, this is about, for instance, being able to set the lifetime-cycles counter to zero whenever it struck your fancy. All of a sudden, even the most beat-up gun is, "never aired up or fired!" Just a simple example.

Jouster

[jondbold]

Thats why you look at the guns wear and tear. Pfft most other guns don't have counters no big deal. 75% of mine are dry firing.

[pimpinsaylor]

Well, since you apparently won't be motivated by my other, stronger reasons for believing in giving WDP a chance, how about this:

It costs me money to release this software.

Several ways that this is the case: first, I have a lawsuit hanging over my head under the DMCA. It'd be my argument that I'm reverse-engineering solely for purposes of compatibility, but even if I'm right, WDP could conceivably sue me shirtless in lawyers' fees alone.

Even if that doesn't pan out, it hurts me because my A4 will have a resale value of approximately $0 if A4's aren't tournament-legal any more (and I suspect that they wouldn't be if I released my software in the state that it's in right now).

Finally, see the point above? It applies to others. Let's say I charged for the software to make up for my loss. Even if I make money by doing that, I'm screwing over all the other A4 owners in the process. No thanks. But, then again, I'm getting into moral/ethical grounds again, which is apparently outside of your concern.

In summation: WDP still has a little while longer (but not much!) to release their software. I promised Frazer that much, and I don't break promises.

JousterWell it look's like those modes will be in forces so your outta luck :lightbulb

[C]-[iLDe]

So im guessing that we're never going to see this software.

[Sparco]

Well it look's like those modes will be in forces so your outta luck :lightbulb

But what if you don't have $1600 to spend on a force? You're still out of luck. I'm under the impression that Frazer assured Jouster at the tech class that the palm software would be released soon.

No date specified but it was coming. The master techs have a software client on their tech PCs and I'm sure they'll model the software similar to that on a palm based interface.

Although a 'sexy angel' type client for the A4 would rock!

[C]-[iLDe]

Honestly, who gives a ☼☼☼☼ about non-tourney legal modes or 'cheat' modes anyway? They can keep them as far as im concerned. I almost don't believe that these 'special' modes are actually a selling point for the Force, but then again, not everyone plays tournaments so whatever.

[Jouster]

-[iLDe']Honestly, who gives a ☼☼☼☼ about non-tourney legal modes or 'cheat' modes anyway? They can keep them as far as im concerned. I almost don't believe that these 'special' modes are actually a selling point for the Force, but then again, not everyone plays tournaments so whatever.
Some scenarios have designated "machine gunners" who are allowed to run full-auto, usually with restrictions on where they can stand and how much paint they can carry, that sort of thing.

It's quite fun to toy around with the gun in full-auto, if you've never gotten around to trying it.

Jouster

[pimpinsaylor]

Some scenarios have designated "machine gunners" who are allowed to run full-auto, usually with restrictions on where they can stand and how much paint they can carry, that sort of thing.

It's quite fun to toy around with the gun in full-auto, if you've never gotten around to trying it.

Jouster
yea most of the time i leave my force in ramp which i think is better

[CrustyVet]

yea most of the time i leave my force in ramp which i think is better

I played with ramp a little yesterday. I dont like how you can only shoot slow or really fast. I like my stutter shots and quick bursts... but just a preferance. Not to mention I hit 24 bps without ramp yesterday so I see no need to use it.

[Emmit]

Some scenarios have designated "machine gunners" who are allowed to run full-auto, usually with restrictions on where they can stand and how much paint they can carry, that sort of thing.

It's quite fun to toy around with the gun in full-auto, if you've never gotten around to trying it.

Jouster
The GSRP (General Scenario Rules of Play) which are currently used by not only Viper but MXS and a few others (BlackCat and at least 2 or 3 more) state no full auto over 12bps. There is no restriction on where these players can go, how much they can carry or what they can do other than the 12BPS rule, and it used to be 9bps. Trust me, I've probably played and reffed more Scenario games than you've read about.:wink:

[paulskate]

You clearly didn't read my argument. Besides, this isn't about unlocking guns, this is about, for instance, being able to set the lifetime-cycles counter to zero whenever it struck your fancy. All of a sudden, even the most beat-up gun is, "never aired up or fired!" Just a simple example.

Jouster



good point, wasnt thinkin that

[CrustyVet]

Question Jouster, even with the gun "unlocked" wouldn't you still have to use the internal buttons to set to mode or anything that can change the operation of the gun? In that case, the unlocked markers could be set properly for a tourny and sealed up for the duration of the games.

[Emmit]

yes...the internal buttons are the only way tto change the TR, Dwell, and modes.

[paulskate]

Well the person that makes the software should just make it with a few features, like different modes of fire and very low tr settings, not anything to change shot counters and stuff like that

[C]-[iLDe]

so ... still no software huh?

[paulskate]

haha, yeah any one working on it?

[no1beefcake]

Out of curiosity, Jouster (it doesn't really affect me, as I only have an LED), but what "hidden" features did you expose with the software? You can PM me if you don't want it public.

[Kaotik]

yeah?

[jondbold]

think it's about time you give up on wdp releasing the software and just publish it.

[paulskate]

yeah this is getting stupid