Choping like a Mofo...

[RTs are the best]

well i got my force 4 around christmas and this is really the first time that this is happened. but last weekend i was choppin glike no other and when i did the bolt wouild stick and air would gush out of the barrel intill i would put a squeege down the barrel and push i back then the leaking would stop and after i would have to clean out my whole gun and its a pain.

The gun is all stock including the barrel

TR is at 20
Dwell is at 14
input is around 275-300
no volumizer

and i was shooting helfire paint that was a week and a half old


Thanks, mark

[Sparco]

SENSI on?
ROF if SENSI was off?
Passing drop test?
Condition of sensor?
Paint on SENSI rod?
Loader used?

[52brandon]

SENSI on?
ROF if SENSI was off?
Passing drop test?
Condition of sensor?
Paint on SENSI rod?
Loader used?
I think you LPR is up too high, if you have an angel tool kit use the gauge and set it to kens settings. I had the same problem but I switched to the longest volumizer and set it accordingly now it works like a charm.

[Emmit]

your input to the gun is at almost 300:yikes: turn your air down, you should only be putting in about 200 not 300!

other than the obvious of doing a sensi test that is the first thing I would do:yikes:300psi!!!

[Sparco]

I think you LPR is up too high, if you have an angel tool kit use the gauge and set it to kens settings. I had the same problem but I switched to the longest volumizer and set it accordingly now it works like a charm.

Where do you see what his LPR pressure is at? Wouldn't a really high LPR (due to the really high input) cause you to blow paint up in the breech? Chopping is typically a cycling issue.

[abom]

your input to the gun is at almost 300:yikes: turn your air down, you should only be putting in about 200 not 300!

other than the obvious of doing a sensi test that is the first thing I would do:yikes:300psi!!!
That explains why I was chopping last time I used my gun...I've already turned it down because I thought it was bad (but that was how I got the gun).

[52brandon]

Where do you see what his LPR pressure is at? Wouldn't a really high LPR (due to the really high input) cause you to blow paint up in the breech? Chopping is typically a cycling issue.
You need an angel tool kit to adjust the LPR (sponsor sites have them for about $50). Maybe it is just coincidence that after I adjusted mine it stopped doing that, but it happened to me every game one night so I ordered a tool kit and adjusted it and the problem was gone. Also I adjusted the ram forward at the same time maybe that is it... but you need the tool kit for that too.

[Emmit]

I think the biggest issue was that the input to the marker was over 300psi. I don't see that he stated anywhere that he knew what his LPR was at tho, I think someone assumed something, and ran with it. At an input of 300 psi from the minireg that thing had to kick like a mule!

Once you get the operating pressure down properly, and have gone out to shoot it come back and let us know how it feels.

[cveale]

I thought with no volumizer that ~300 psi was normal. At least that's what the manual says.

[mrtheoutlaw]

300 psi mini-reg output is what Emmit is referring to, 300 psi into the mini reg is normal.

[cveale]

No, the manual means ~300 out of the mini-reg, not into it.

[Worr Angel]

No, the manual means ~300 out of the mini-reg, not into it.

I agree. I thought it was supposed to be 400 to 450 into the mini-reg and then you would have about 300 out with no volumizer.

[Emmit]

according to page 10 of the manual it says that with just the cap you should be ~325

However I can say that when I had no volumizer on my marker, my AIR output at ~350, and my marker chrono'd to ~280 FPS I was still in the 200psi area.

Check out page 10 and the diagrams for any questions.

[lcplwan]

ya page 33, im reading "The pressure needs to be at 82psi 5.7bar output at a pressure of 350PSI at the second stage regulator."

now thats if you were running the marker at stock settings right?
Is that what you are refering to?

[Emmit]

that's for setting the LPR pressure, not operating the marker.

[abom]

Like I posted before in this thread, I have a problem with chopping.

The thing is, I've already lowered my input pressure. I fixed the problem I had with air leaking at the backplate (thanks to the replies on the forum :)). But I'm still chopping like a mad man. All the settings (except the hopper) are according to the settings Ken posted (50 lpr, largest volumizer, 225 PSI input pressure, dwell 17, tr 1).

I'm not really sure how sensi works, except that the rod is being used to check if there's a ball at the proper place), but I dont know what's being calibrated the first few shots.
I was chopping pretty bad, so I thought it would be a good test to try Sensi Mode 3 instead of 4. But it didn't help...eventho the gun doesnt shoot for like a seconde when there's no ball, I'm still chopping.

The guy who sold me my angel air (he has quite some experience with angels), told me that I might been firing to fast (even with sensi 3?!) and he advised me to disable Sensi and lower the MROF to 13 or 14 (that's the fastest my hopper will feed, I'm still waiting for my egg and z-board). Since most people on this forum say that sensi works pretty good, I'd like to hear what you guys (specially Emmit) think about that idea. And if possible tell me what to try next to solve this.

Also...I've been thinking...is it possible that Sensi is being calibrated incorrectly while shoting the first 5-10 balls when you're not holding the gun like your holding it in the field, in action? That could cause my problem also... not sure if it's possible.

[Emmit]

why would you want to turn off the anti chop system???:confused:

I suggest calibrating the marker, and then doing the sensi test to see if you've got a problem. If you've got a bad sensor in the marker your sensi will not perform properly, and you won't be happy. Certainly don't turn it off tho:nono:

[abom]

Sensi works perfectly according to the test (10/10).

I dont know why to disable sensi, maybe to limit the angel 'hard' at 13 bps so you wont go over that rate so that the hopper can always keep up with the marker.

There's another thing I might add, I think I often chop the last ball from the hopper ... happened a few times but it might be a coincidence.

[Sparco]

One problem I had noticed with my buddy's A4 is the TR causing him to chop the 3rd or 4th ball in a slow ROF string. He'd start shooting and the 3rd/4th shot would double feed because the TR (set below 3) was kicking in, causing an irregular feed and thus chopping the 2nd ball. Another thing I've found is that some SENSI pads fail the drop test at an angle but pass it with a normal drop.

I typically will do 5 drops with the marker pointing straight up and then 3 sets with the feedtube facing the following directions:

- 1 o'clock
- 2 o'clock
- 10 o'clock
- 11 o'clock

I find sometimes that our markers won't pass the 2 and 10 positions 3 out of 3 but will do 7 out of 10.

[abom]

I tried the different angles, all of the tests where succesfull.

Talking about TR, what is it for anyway? :} I dont even know what it stands for and I don't think it's in the manual.

Should I increase the TR?

What about my lpr? It was at 50 when I checked it, is it possible that it raised or lower to much because I've adjusted the minireg to much?

[Emmit]

TR is your trigger offset...if it's set too low depending on your trigger set up you can get bounce, it won't be all the time bounce, just sometime bounce, turn your TR up 1 more notch.

[Sparco]

TR is "debounce" like the Intimidator.

[Worr Angel]

Not sure how the TR can affect chopping. If you are passing the sensi test and calibrating then it should have no affect? I have goofed around with TR at 1 and had no chops.

You do know that you can't power your gun down and hold calibration, right? If you power down, you must recalibrate the sensi.

[52brandon]

I don't think TR would affect chopping if you are on sensi. Even if it bounces it still shouldn't shoot until there is a ball in it. I am having some sensi issues right now as well. My gun works fine for a few hundred balls then it drops to like 1 bps. I am going to make sure the sensi wires aren't being pinched and that the sensi is clean. Bob at fixmyangel suggested to make sure the hole that the sensi rod goes in is clean as well and to make sure the front screw that holds the frame to the body isn't too tight. I'll post results this weekend when I play again.

[abom]

Not sure how the TR can affect chopping. If you are passing the sensi test and calibrating then it should have no affect? I have goofed around with TR at 1 and had no chops.
Sounds logical to me.

You do know that you can't power your gun down and hold calibration, right? If you power down, you must recalibrate the sensi.
Yes I know this and I did recalibrate it every time I change pressure.

[abom]

I don't think TR would affect chopping if you are on sensi. Even if it bounces it still shouldn't shoot until there is a ball in it. I am having some sensi issues right now as well. My gun works fine for a few hundred balls then it drops to like 1 bps. I am going to make sure the sensi wires aren't being pinched and that the sensi is clean. Bob at fixmyangel suggested to make sure the hole that the sensi rod goes in is clean as well and to make sure the front screw that holds the frame to the body isn't too tight. I'll post results this weekend when I play again.
Are you using Sensi 3? Sounds like you're using Sensi 3 and it stops working.

[52brandon]

Are you using Sensi 3? Sounds like you're using Sensi 3 and it stops working.
1, but I'm switching to semi 2 for next time I play

[Jetwing@Impactpaintball]

think it could be the paint? or barrel? im assuming uve done the sensi drop test and fire 10 shots at a steady pace to calibrate it. by the way i also chop ONLY at the last ball in the hopper, i think its due to the fact the last few balls arent force fed but gravity fed, it doesnt fall fast nuff.

[52brandon]

think it could be the paint? or barrel? im assuming uve done the sensi drop test and fire 10 shots at a steady pace to calibrate it. by the way i also chop ONLY at the last ball in the hopper, i think its due to the fact the last few balls arent force fed but gravity fed, it doesnt fall fast nuff.
possibly paint, chopping is different from barrel breaks. If you chop paint gets in your breach and bolt and detents, barrel breaks only get in your barrel.

[Jetwing@Impactpaintball]

true... (looks for head to screw back on)

[Jouster]

How are your detents looking? Feel them with your fingertips. They may be too stiff or too loose.

Shoot a few dozen shots without your barrel, just to make sure that's not what's messing you up.

Jouster

[lcplwan]

Im not sure if this is related to chopping but when i got my a4, opening and closing the breech was a little difficult, the ram was screwed in a little farther than it needed and it was catching. I adjusted it so it can close freely without catching now.
Could that be a reason it might be chopping?

[52brandon]

Im not sure if this is related to chopping but when i got my a4, opening and closing the breech was a little difficult, the ram was screwed in a little farther than it needed and it was catching. I adjusted it so it can close freely without catching now.
Could that be a reason it might be chopping?
It could be. Every Master Tech I asked about tuning up my gun said that the ram is supposed to be far enough forward for it to click when you close it and to feel a little sticky when you open it. Adjust it forward a little again, it should help (it can't hurt regardless).

[Sparco]

As long as you can open the breech door then the bolt isn't far enough forward to cause an issue.

As for the TR causing a chop, that was my problem. When I'd calibrate SENSI it wouldn't bounce but immediately upon using the marker after calibration I'd sometimes get an unwanted bounce, almost like reactive and it'd chopped the 2nd ball in the sequence. This was with SENSI 2. I'm going to switch to 4 this weekend and give that a shot.

I've also found that the LDS sometimes needs to be recalibrated in the afternoon during a long day of play. For example, on fresh 9v batteries I can approximately 4 cases of paint on my Z-board (eVLution II). However on cases 3 & 4 I'll calibrate the LDS every 8 pods to ensure that the decreased life of the battery isn't causing the problem.

[bumassjp]

well i got my force 4 around christmas and this is really the first time that this is happened. but last weekend i was choppin glike no other and when i did the bolt wouild stick and air would gush out of the barrel intill i would put a squeege down the barrel and push i back then the leaking would stop and after i would have to clean out my whole gun and its a pain.

The gun is all stock including the barrel

TR is at 20
Dwell is at 14
input is around 275-300
no volumizer

and i was shooting helfire paint that was a week and a half old


Thanks, mark
do yourself a favor... throw the largest volumizer on, set your dwell to 16-17, your LPR to 50-55, and fix your trigger so tr doesnt have to be at 20. then TURN SENSI ON!

[abom]

think it could be the paint? or barrel? im assuming uve done the sensi drop test and fire 10 shots at a steady pace to calibrate it. by the way i also chop ONLY at the last ball in the hopper, i think its due to the fact the last few balls arent force fed but gravity fed, it doesnt fall fast nuff.
Could be the paint (it was draxxas)...however, a friend of mine (also an A4 with the same setup like mine) chopped only once during the entire day.

Maybe it's the barrel, but that's unlikely (because the paint get's everywhere)...but it never hurts to try his barrel on my gun.

[cveale]

Adjust the ram forward so that there is a little resistance when opening the breech. Not much, but a little is good. Make sure that you ball detents are clean and that they move easily and quickly when pressed.

Most importantly, make sure you are not getting SENSI "bounce". Use the tried and true method of firing about 20 shots through the hopper in SENSI 1. Then dry fire as fast as you can. Your shots should be evenly spaced about 1 ball per second apart. If this isn't the case then you might have SENSI "bounce" or perhaps a failing SENSI.

Let me know what happens when you test it.

[abom]

It is possible that it's the ram. I did adjust it a little bit because I had some problems opening the breach before, maybe I adjusted it a little to much.

I'll test everything at the end of the week, I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for the help!

[cveale]

Make sure you have the gun gassed up when you are adjusting the ram.

[bumassjp]

Could be the paint (it was draxxas)...however, a friend of mine (also an A4 with the same setup like mine) chopped only once during the entire day.

Maybe it's the barrel, but that's unlikely (because the paint get's everywhere)...but it never hurts to try his barrel on my gun.
well to put this in perspective ive never chopped a ball in my a4. after about 8 cases through it.

[abom]

well to put this in perspective ive never chopped a ball in my a4. after about 8 cases through it.
I'm sure it's the configuration that I've messed up :cry: Nothing that can't be fixed (I hope).

[bumassjp]

I'm sure it's the configuration that I've messed up :cry: Nothing that can't be fixed (I hope).
youll get it right eventually and when you do youll swear by it.

[lcplwan]

I think this why people *including me* were chopping
The manual doesnt say turn on sensi to calibrate. Therefore some people think all you have to do is turn on the a4, put it on live and shoot 10 balls and it is calibrated.
Basically some of us were only following directions and not wandering off. which is not a bad thing. The first day I shot paint with my a4, I thought as well, turn on the marker shoot 10 shots and it was calibrated and That was why I was chopping. I think that is why others were chopping as well. So now I know, and im sure others know you need to turn on marker, put it on live, and push the middle *orange* button so the LED blinks red meaning sensi is on. After doing so, shoot 10 rds and that is when the sensi is calibrated. After yesterday *sunday* playing 10 games of speed ball, I did NOT have 1 single ball chop using my halo. Now I am super happy with the A4!!

[abom]

Calibration isn't the problem...the marker is set up incorrectly...but I still dont know why it's chopping.
Gonna get a faster hopper friday and I'll be playing all weekend and will prob be able to use a few different barrels and hoppers. I hope I'll have it fixed by the end of the weekend.

[lcplwan]

I am using a Halo B, with the A4.

Do you:
1. turn on marker
2. put on live
3. push center *orange* button so led flashes red?
4. shoot 10 rds
5 then shoot as fast as you can?

does it still chop?

if you:
1. turn on marker
2. put on live
3. shoot 10 rds
it will not calibrate
the red led needs to be flashing to calibrate.
I shot with sensi 2 all day and not 1 ball broke

here is the theory, when you shoot the first 10 balls while you turn on the marker and sensi on *led flashing red*
that is when it gets calibrated. Now in order for the a4 to shoot, it needs to feel the paintball hit the sensi rod, if it does not feel a paintball hit the sensi rod then it should not shoot.

if it still chops I guess take it to a shop and have it checked.. or send it out.

[Worr Angel]

Just send me your gun and I will repair it for you.

Please make sure it is here by Friday.