breaking paint in breech/barrel

[sigmx]

yesturday when i was playing I think my angel was chopping, the paint I used was bad, everybody on the team had problems with it breaking in the barrel and so on. the problem is that i am not sure that i chopped on the bolt, it was only paint in the barrle and not much in the breech but this also happends when i shoot fast. Yes i calibrated the gun with 6 balls or so and i run at semi2 and a evoII(y-board) and the sensi test has never failed...and the gun is very accurate with that paint, have i just got a bad box of paint? or could it be something bad with the gun?

[Emmit]

outside temp?
dwell setting?
paint/barrel match?

if it's cold out, and you're running a low dwell that might be part of the problem.

additionally if it's a bad batch (as I'm inclined to believe since you stated that multiple people were having problems all day) then there's not a lot you can do about it.

[sigmx]

okey it was cold there. and the dwell is only at 12 and i tryed out the one volumizer.... so that might be my problem..

[Emmit]

upping the dwell by about 2 is often a good and easy solution to brittle paint in cold weather.

[sigmx]

ok..

[cveale]

I had an issue with bad paint and my spring ball detent spring being too stiff. I had stretched the springs too much apparently. I replaced the springs with the stock ones and I could shoot bad paint without problems.

[Wing Nut]

We had the same problem this weekend.....

Between two of us, we have 4 A4's. Two of them have the settings as pointed out by Ken Crane in one of the other threads, and the two newer ones were stock.

We both have Evil Pipe sets......

What a nightmare we had..........!!!!!!!

In fact, I think in one game I fired an entire hopper of spray at a guy 10 meters away, hoping that a large blob would hit him in the goggles, and he couldn't see for the rest of the game. That way I could walk over and throw one at him.........

I used three different brands of paint..... all with the same results.....

I think that the cold just totally messes everything up.

My grip was telling me it was 8 degrees celcius, out of the wind. And boy was that wind evil??? It was lifting the Sup-Air bunkers from their pegs...!!!!!!!!!

Saying that, all our team had the same problem. E-Cocker, LCD, Mechanical Cocker (back-up gun), and the four A4's...

[Emmit]

yeah cold does a number on the paint...and if everyone is having the same problems then it's obviously not a marker problem, and there's only so many variables you can control....just think if you had been trying to play with CO2 on a Spyder or something in that cold:yikes:

[PolecatR1]

upping the dwell by about 2 is often a good and easy solution to brittle paint in cold weather.

Can someone explain to my why upping the dwell helps with brittle paint?? :again:

[Emmit]

Can someone explain to my why upping the dwell helps with brittle paint?? :again:
when you raise the dwell you're increasing the amount of time the valve stays open, this increases the volume of air, thus as a result you lower your pressure...remember that HP=LV/LP=HV thing I keep trying to cram down everyone's throat, it's real it's not a theory...back to the reasoning...so now that you've increased your volume by leaving the valve open longer, you're going to have to lower your minireg output, thus exerting less pressure on the ball to get the same effects...hence gentler on brittle paint.

[Jouster]

it's real it's not a theory
*bristles*

Note point 16 of the Crackpot index (http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html), which attitude you seem to be implying by that quote.

Jouster

[Emmit]

*bristles*

Note point 16 of the Crackpot index (http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html), which attitude you seem to be implying by that quote.

Jouster
you seem to have mis-interpreted what I was saying...since a theory is exactly that, it's something with speculation that has no proof etc...

if we look it up on www.dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theory

the·o·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-r, thîr)
n. pl. the·o·ries
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.


then it would appear that in this statement I was using definition 6. As this HP=LV/LP=HV is not speculation it is proven....

so perhaps we were using 2 different versions of the definition of theory...in going with one of the other definitions of it it can be proven, and has been etc...

[Worr Angel]

If I have learned anything in my few weeks on this site it is to not challenge Emmit. He is very thorough and doesn't seem to be wrong too often. This is personal experience.

Emmit, what do your letters represent?

High Pressure = Low Volume
Low Pressure = High Volume

[Emmit]

If I have learned anything in my few weeks on this site it is to not challenge Emmit. He is very thorough and doesn't seem to be wrong too often. This is personal experience.

Emmit, what do your letters represent?

High Pressure = Low Volume
Low Pressure = High Volume
ding ding ding...I got tired of typing it out constantly....it's like in a class, after you've written it fully the first couple of times you start to abbreviate it to make it faster etc.

edit---now before anyone starts trying to play symantics here..they are not exactly equal...the symbol is just used to to explain, I guess it'd be more like saying they're proportional but I'm not gonna try to draw out the graphs and figure all that pyhsics crap out right now...the last Physics I studied was Nuclear and I don't even want to start remembering some of that:lol:

[Worr Angel]

ding ding ding...I got tired of typing it out constantly....it's like in a class, after you've written it fully the first couple of times you start to abbreviate it to make it faster etc.

I thought it was obvious but I wanted to make sure since I am new to the angel team.

[Emmit]

I thought it was obvious but I wanted to make sure since I am new to the angel team.
no worries...what's obvious to some isn't obvious to others.

[vap0r]

I played this weekend in mid forty degree weather. Shot Draxxus competition (our practice paint) and only broke about 10 balls -- all barrel breaks.

The rest of my team use Matrix LCDs, theirs were blenders. Not too bad for a cold day.

Dwell - 16
LPR - 55

Sensi has never failed me!

:lol:

[Emmit]

I played this weekend in mid forty degree weather. Shot Draxxus competition (our practice paint) and only broke about 10 balls -- all barrel breaks.

The rest of my team use Matrix LCDs, theirs were blenders. Not too bad for a cold day.

Dwell - 16
LPR - 55

Sensi has never failed me!

:lol:

see perfect example...high dwell (high volume) and low pressure (low LPR setting):wink: there's truth in this guys....

[Worr Angel]

see perfect example...high dwell (high volume) and low pressure (low LPR setting):wink: there's truth in this guys....

I agree with you. This is basically my premise on the low pressure gives better accuracy and distance. Recall my thread I started (http://www.angel-owners.com/showthread.php?t=19067). The MT's believe this as well.

"We have found that operating your marker at lower pressures increases your range and accuracy..." which is from the following link.
http://www.angelforce.tv/volumizers.html

[gik4]

umm i thought that the guys at agd said that ball deformation by hp guns was a bunch of crap?

i dont notice a difference in range or accuracy between my "high pressure" lcd and those low pressure a4s....

[Emmit]

If I remember correctly Tom Kaye's testing showed something along the lines that at the moment the valve opens up the pressures are relatively similar so the differences between a LP marker and a HP marker would be fairly negligible.

[Sparco]

I think the biggest difference is kick and air consumption.

HP - Less volume, better efficiency, more kick
LP - More volume, lower efficiency, less kick

However, getting 9 pods off a 68ci/4500psi marker running "LP" is fine and dandy with me.

[Emmit]

However, getting 9 pods off a 68ci/4500psi marker running "LP" is fine and dandy with me.

I think this is where I should chime in and point out that this past weekend I had 7 empty pods, an almost empty Evlution 2, and about 1000psi in my tank....I started with about 3800 maybe 3900 psi....for those not wanting to do the math that's about 2800-2900 psi to shoot 7 pods and almost a full hopper...that comes out to about 2.5 psi per ball :worthy:

[dynastySSS]

yea i would take that

[Sparco]

which would be 1800 rds off a full 4500psi (cool) fill or over a case with a 5000 fill.

[Emmit]

which would be 1800 rds off a full 4500psi (cool) fill or over a case with a 5000 fill.
in order to ensure no shootdown due to lack of air, I'd probably suggest closer to the 1600 range as this will still leave a little over 350 in your tank..

[Worr Angel]

If I remember correctly Tom Kaye's testing showed something along the lines that at the moment the valve opens up the pressures are relatively similar so the differences between a LP marker and a HP marker would be fairly negligible.

I think that would definitely be a true statement. There is a choking affect that at some point no matter the pressure, the breach area will remain the same. What does change however, is the velocity of the air entering the breach. From high pressure to 100 psig (assumed breach pressure) the velocity of the air will be larger than from low pressure to 100 psig. This is because the velocity is proportional to the change in pressure. The lower the velocity, to some minimum point, the more stable the air flow hitting the ball will be (laminar flow). :nerd: