White smoke and 55/16...

[cyeh01]

I have a question for those of you running 55psi on your lpr and 16 dwell or a similar (no-kick) setting on your Speed/A4. Does your marker shoot a puff of white smoke out the barrel with each shot. I'm coming from a 72/11 setting that did not do this before so I'm wondering if you guys experience this?

A second issue: If I adjusted my LPR with a lower minireg pressure (i.e. I forgot to backout the minireg screw to 350psi hehe), then is the readout of 55psi at the LPR accurate after all is said and done? If it's not "accurate" then theoretically if you set your LPR with 350 psi from the minireg AND THEN lower your minireg pressure to 180-200psi, then isn't your LPR running even lower than the original 55psi you set it at? i.e. maybe 50psi? or lower?

Oh and btw, the efficiency for 55/16 from what I can tell sucks arse LOL probably has something to do with the white stuff coming out my barrel.

Charles

[Emmit]

where are you located? I had the 'white smoke' a couple of weekends ago, but it was 30 degrees outside. If it's cold you'll get a little it's just the gas expanding and being hotter than the surrounding air...CO2 users usually see this often.

and your efficiency issue sounds like it's probably because the LPR isn't set right, and the correct dwell suggestion was 17:wink:

[cyeh01]

Nah, I'm in So. Cal. and even when raining it's still almost 60 degrees outside so I doubt it's that...

If I increase dwell to 17 that's even less efficient and probably more white smoke coming out the barrel eh? I'm just not used to seeing my barrel do this, then again I did swap barrels (from a St!ffi to a Longbow) and this one has a little less porting along the sides.

Emmit, thanks for the quick reply but surprisingly you didn't address my question regarding setting the LPR. Essentially my question is this: How could the way that I set it hurt? I know that all I gotta do is back out the minireg screw and check my LPR again, but if I'm understanding this correctly then all that will happen is that the LPR should increase a little maybe at most 5psi (i'm guessing). That being said when you say you're running 55/17, do you mean that 55 was what you saw when your minireg was putting out 350psi? Or that is what you are seeing now with your minireg putting out 180psi? You see what I'm getting at?...

Thanks,

Charles

[Emmit]

I'm not setting my LPR through the minireg. I have an adapter that I use that has a fitting on it that I can put a piece of hose and then set the output on my AIR to 350, so I have 0 restrictions from my minireg and I know that my LPR is getting 350psi.

now what sort of adverse effects would you see? Well if you set your LPR to 55 with only 200 going to the LPR what do you think your LPR would really be at if you did it correctly and had 350psi going to the minireg? See the difference here? Your minireg is probably higher than it could/should be if you're trying to run the desired settings you've stated.

[cyeh01]

Actually this is the part I guess I don't really understand. You don't really have any control over what your minireg output is since it also controls the FPS and the field determines what you are required to run...

you mentioned that you run the adapter with a hose from a old remote earlier so you know you're completely bypassing your minireg, which I understand is supposed to be "similar" to backing out the minireg screw (since that's as good as it gets for us less fortunate souls). Ah... wth I'll just go check it now :)

Charles

[cyeh01]

Okay, I did it "right" this time and here's what I found:

1) LPR gauge read 55psi with a properly set FPS (i'm guessing 250-275psi)
2) With the minireg screw backed out the LPR gauge read 70psi
3) With the minireg screw backed out I then set the LPR to read 52psi (couldn't get it up to 55psi)
4) Set the FPS (lowered the minireg pressure to I'm guessing 180-200psi) and the LPR gauge read 45psi

From what I can tell, setting your FPS can drop your LPR pressure anywhere from 13-15psi. I did a shoot-down test and from what I can tell it's fine. So I guess I'm running 52LPR/17dwell now. Can't really say that I noticed less kick. I gotta do a long-term test.

Here's a new question though: Can metal shavings in the ASA (from screwing the tank on and off repeatedly) get into the marker? And just how bad is this?

[Emmit]

don't know why you'd have any metal shavings in your asa...that's a new one on me.

[BuNkErEd]

don't know why you'd have any metal shavings in your asa...that's a new one on me.
lmao...that just made me acutally laugh out loud for some reason.. :clap:

[Emmit]

lmao...that just made me acutally laugh out loud for some reason.. :clap:
care to explain???

niether the reg nor the ASA should be leaving metal shavings in the ASA. The threads should not be deteriorating in any way that it would leave shavings:confused:

[BuNkErEd]

care to explain???

niether the reg nor the ASA should be leaving metal shavings in the ASA. The threads should not be deteriorating in any way that it would leave shavings:confused:
i really do not know...i just laughed for some odd reason.

[cyeh01]

Well they appear to be coming from my LP Crossfire tank threads and here's my hypothesis: The difference in minireg pressure and tank pressure has increased from doing a 72-->55psi lpr drop. Before it was easy to screw off the tank since the difference between tank and minireg was only like 100psi. Now it's like 250psi or so. Anyway, from constantly doing lpr tests today and screwing the tank on and off (i don't have an on/off) the paint on the thread on the tank is chipping. I am not sure if it's paint but the color of the material underneath is more gold-ish where as the rest of the thread is silver in color. So basically yes the threads are deteriorating due to force and repeated turning.

[IwanaANGEL]

cyeh01 how did u find out what ur mini reg was outputing???

* How to set LPR CORRECTLY should be in the new faq*

[cyeh01]

IwanaANGEL: I believe setting LPR is all over the place but I'm not 100% certain it's in the FAQ. Anyway when you're eager to do something it's real easy to miss a step. I twice put back the LPR piston without putting in the spring stack... that was a real @*$#% and my volumizer has the scars to prove it...

regarding the minireg, actually i don't have a gauge or anything (yet) it's simply guesswork but it's noticeable how hard it is to take off the tank now with a lower marker pressure. I'm guess 180psi is the lowest you can go and I'm probably sitting at around 190psi-200psi now, and before with 72lpr/11dwell i was probably at 300psi minireg pressure. I'm getting an A4 flash tank soon but it still won't tell me in #'s what I'm getting, it's more so I can be cool like the A4 folk :)

[Big Boo]

Emmit, If I am using your settings to play indoor with a chrono of 250 will they be as effective or will the fps jump around a bit. If this is the reason for +-10 fps do I need to lower the dwell?

[SarcoBlaster]

cyeh01: In regards to the white smoke thing, I noticed that as well on Sunday. My LPR was at about 60psi, but the dwell was at 17ms (I thought the guage read 55psi, but it was actually at 60psi, which is why my dwell was so high). However, it only happened for several shots and it didn't happen again after that. If it matters, I was at SC Village, so I'm sure the weather was pretty much the same since you're in SoCal as well.

Kind of off topic, but is it OK if I have my LPR set at 55psi when my FPS is around 285fps-300fps (about 240psi-250psi from the inline reg into the gun)? If I bump the input pressure from the reg into the gun to 350psi, the LPR goes up to 60psi. Would it be OK to leave the dwell at 17ms since it's at 55psi when my velocity is set where I want it?

[cyeh01]

Sarco, if I'm understanding your question, it's fine to have 55psi in the LPR if your minireg is set to proper FPS. Are you using a volumizer because I would imagine that you could lower your minireg output even more (down to like 180ish) if you used one... 55psi/17ms is a good combination that I've heard works on A4's and Speeds alike. I'm actually running 52/17 and hopefully it'll hold for me over this weekend. Speaking of this weekend are you going out to SC again? It's supposed to rain... does anyone go when it's raining? I figure just bring a roll of Saran-Wrap and you're good to go :) hehehe

Charles

[SarcoBlaster]

Charles,

Thanks for the help. My gun's pretty much set up like yours is now (350psi from the minireg and I set the LPR to 55psi so now it's at about 52psi/17ms), but I'll have to get some paint tomorrow just to test it out and see if I get shoot down and whatnot. I have a Dirt volumizer on the gun, which I'm not sure whether or not it's large enough in order to drop the operating pressure to ~180psi. The only thing else I can think of is my tank; it's not LP and has a 750psi output, but the Stabilizer on my gun has been working nicely so I guess I'll deal with the higher operating pressure.

Nah, I'm not headed out to SC this weekend; got some stuff to take care of. I've never been there when it's raining, so I'm not usre if many people go or not.

Thanks again,
Randy

[cyeh01]

Randy,

I hear the Dirt volumizer is just as good as the large 3sum volumizer so you should be able to run 180-200psi out of the minireg. If only Emmit lived in So Cal so we could borrow his remote and his adapter so we could figure out our true minireg output :)

i'm surprised you're using a hp output tank, what company makes it? When you say that your Stabilizer is working nicely are you referring to your minireg? It'd be interesting to compare our two markers seeing that they're have the same LPR/dwell settings.

Regards,

Charles

[SarcoBlaster]

Charles,

The tank I'm using is a Centerflag Hyperflow. I took the original minireg off of the gun and put a Stabilizer in its place. When I said it was working nicely, I meant the velocity was relatively consistent and I didn't have problems with it all day on Sunday (+/- 3fps over the chrono).

I just got back inside from testing out the new settings (52psi/17ms) and didn't notice any adverse effects (FSDO, drop off in long strings, etc). Only fired about 2 tubes, so I can't really comment on efficiency, but I had about 1800psi before and now the guage is reading about 900 psi.

The thing that bugs me most is the guage on my Stabilizer is reading just under 250psi input and it seems to be shooting right. I don't have a chrono, so I don't really know what my velocity is at right now, but on Sunday, I was getting 295fps with these settings: 60psi/17ms, 250 input from the Stabilizer, very good paint/barrel match. Not sure why I can't bring the operating pressure under 200 in order to get it to shoot at the appropriate velocity though.

Take care,
Randy

*Edit* Just went back outside and turned the input pressure to 200psi and I think I was shooting hot with the 250 psi input. Oh well, guess I won't know until I get out to the field again.

[cyeh01]

Randy, If you're nearby you can use my RadarChron, I'm assuming you're using that large volumizer?

At the end of the day it's not so much the settings as the way the gun shoots and if you're kicking butt with it, you can't complain right?

Charles

[SarcoBlaster]

Charles,

Yep, the volumizer is on the gun and on the correct side. Thanks a lot for offering to let me use your RadarChron, but I'll probably pick one up for myself since I uncontrollably tinker with my gun every now and then just for the heck of it. =P

Like you said, I can't really complain about my gun's performance at all. Since it works well, I'll probably just leave it alone and stop being so concerned with its settings.

-Randy

[cyeh01]

my goal right now is to get +-5fps consistency right now... I think I'm still up at +-8fps :(

[SarcoBlaster]

Did you get +-8fps once you switched over to the new settings? Or were you getting +-8fps even with the 72/11 settings?

[cyeh01]

I had bad consistency with both settings... I'm thinking it's my LPR or my minireg. It's really odd too, it'll be within +/- 3fps for like 6 balls and then 1 will be +13fps over average and then another will be -14fps below average... i don't know what gives :(

[Emmit]

sounds more like an inconsistant paint issue....paint is not perfect, and there's always an off ball or 2 in there

[cyeh01]

so you're saying that this is consistent to what one would experience with bad paint? I was shooting PMI premiums and Nelson Anarchy and it was both bad the same result.

[Emmit]

I usually have a good chrono consistancy of easily within about 2fps. I've had days where I'm spot on at 295, 294, 296...and then get a loose one and it drops to like 280...it's paint...

[cyeh01]

so you're saying this is actually normal and nothing to really worry about?

I just want to know basically that it's not my minireg/LPR

by the way, how frequently do you get that loose ball? is it 1/10 or 1/8 or 1/6 etc? You know what I'm getting at? I'm mean I'll get a streak of 10 really consistant balls and then all of a sudden I'll get one that's super hot and another super cold back to back...