How does your Speed respond...???

[cyeh01]

How does your Speed or A4 (just for you Emmit) respond with differences in input pressure?

The reason I ask is because theoretically the minireg controls the actual pressure going in the marker so does it really make a difference if you are running 350,400,425,450,500 etc? How does this affect your SPeed?

I'm running a crossfire LP preset.

Recently I put on a gauge to measure output pressure of the tank and i've noticed that with a good fill (4000+) my output is around 500ish and that when i'm running low, it drops down to like 450ish... is that consistent with anyone else's experiences? Namely that output pressure varies slightly with overall tank pressure?

[cyeh01]

I'm running 72lpr/11dwell and I adjusted my LPR myself since I have an angel tool kit. I'm talking about the differences one feels with different inputs...

[cveale]

I am currently running Ken's recommended settings 50 lpr/17 dwell and my gun does fire noticably smoother. I actually tried a little under 50 (45 psi) but I started getting crazy shootdown. Like it's set now I can hardly tell its firing. Very nice.

I have tried the 70-72 lpr/11 dwell and I liked that setting as well. A bit more kick (not much), but extremely air efficient and more tolerant to a not so perfect paint/barrel match.

The stock lpr settings of 85 psi is not a good setting in my book. No real benifit to keeping it there.

[ezrunner]

I don't see a huge difference between fill points and the 50 psi difference shouldn't be a huge issue. It seems that when a preset has more than 750 - 800 psi the minireg isn't too happy.

-rob

[cyeh01]

ezrunner, can you confirm that there IS indeed a difference between fill points though? i.e. the discrepency of about 50psi on the fixed output lp tank? not sure what you're running...

[cveale]

I didn't realize that the Crossfire Preset was so inaccurate. Most good regs on a preset or an adjustable reg tank wouldn't dream of having a 50 psi fluctuation.

[cyeh01]

I'm not sure that my experience is indicative of the entire spectrum of LP crossfires, which is why I beseech the feedback of my fellow LP x-fire owners. :)

[paintballer4life]

The pressure tends drop off towards the last shots of the tank even though on their site they say the first shot has as much punch as the last. To tell you the truth the first shots after a 4500 fill will have a higher FPS than say if there was 4000 psi left from my experiences. But what do you expect you can’t really control AIR pressure perfectly it’s not like its mechanical or any thing.

[ezrunner]

well, most regs will change output based on the input presented. There is a ratio for every reg. The Macdev Gladiator (pre - 04) was a 35:1, this indicated that a change of 35 psi of input pressure would result in a 1psi change of output pressure. By contrast, the Palmer Stabilizer is a 70:1 reg. That is a much more consistent design.

Now I haven't measured the output of my crossfire but I have been using their products for going on 4 years. My LP tank on my speed never let me down.

The tank pressure starts out at 4500 psi and has a change of input pressure of more than 4000psi. If the change in output is only 50 psi that's pretty darn good.

Now lets say the minireg is a 50:1 reg, then you would only get a 1 psi difference input into your gun. You can't adjust the minireg to change it 1 psi. In reality lets say it is a 2 psi difference. Fine, you just lost 3fps from fill to end.

Is that acceptable performance? For me heck yeah. These air systems are closely engineered marvels. We start out with up to 5000 psi in a tank and shoot within 3fps when we only have 200 psi left.

So in short, I've never measured it but it has never given reason to. I ran a race frame on an AKA merlin with a palmer reg and my crossfire tank last year and for 6 months never adjusted a single thing. It worked at Mardi Gras last year in terrible weather and never gave me any problems at the chrono or on the field.

-rob

[cyeh01]

Rob, thanks a lot for shedding some light on the subject I think most of us never suspected that it was normal for the outputs to change due to the inputs though it makes complete sense. Hats off for providing the technical detail behind it too, sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of the physics behind it! Just outta curiosity where did you find the ratios for input to output on the Macdev Gladiator and the Palmer Stabilizer? Also, the Palmer is an inline reg right?

Charles

[Vantage_TeS]

Yea the palmer is an inline if that helps cyeh01. I am guessing that he got the ratio off the macdev site, most manufacturers have it listed under their stats, and if they dont a quick email will provide the answers you need.

[cyeh01]

How do you guys like the Palmer minireg? Like to get some feedback from you guys. Does it come with a gauge? I believe Palmer makes several miniregs, could you clarify which one?

Regarding the pressure fluctuations over an entire fill. I'm looking at my gauge and it's telling me that I got 400psi going into the minireg. Don't quote me on this but I think it was up at 500 or 550psi on a full fill. Rob, I know this is inconsequential as long as the minireg is doing it's job, could confirm whether or not "normal"?

Thanks,

Charles

[SarcoBlaster]

Charles,

I think they are referring to the male Stabilizer (not sure how else to describe it except it's just like any other inline reg; screws in where the stock Angel minireg goes). It doesn't come with a guage, but already has a hole there if you want to install one yourself.

As far as performance goes, I love mine. I've had it on 3 of my guns (Cocker, Bushmaster, and now my Speed) and it's worked flawlessly on all of them. Been using it for about 3 years and it's never skipped a beat. The consistency is excellent and I honestly could not ask for a better inline regulator.

-Randy

[cyeh01]

Thanks for the response Randy. I have heard great things about the Palmer regs.

My LP Crossfire has a 35:1 ratio (or worse actually). I crunched the #'s and apparently for over 4000psi change I should be seeing about 114psi change if it's that ratio. Actually what I'm seeing is wose than 114psi change...

1st I have no idea why anyone would gut a minireg if the ratios are so horrible on the tanks. I admit, I bought the Crossfire because of the reputation and the reviews but what kind of changes in output are you guys experiencing with your tanks? I know AIR's are supposed to be "electropneumatic" but what about MacDevs, 'geddons, etc. Surely they must all abide by the laws of physics... right?

Charles