Flat projectory - longer range

[TazzieDevil]

Good Morning,

Forums looking good, will christen this board with a question :)

I have a 2k C&C, just got it second hand. I played a tournament over the last weekend, but i found that most of my shots were lobbed to get range, this was good in some cases.

However, I play up front and need to have flat shots from my marker to get what im aiming at, having to lob balls takes too long to get on the spot, however, i can lob from the back fine.

What is the best thing to do to my Angel to get a flater range, possibly longer range for tagging those back players if needed?

Thanks

Chris Rosedale

[Mr.Ice]

I definitely suggest the freeflow ERA mod. I have two teammates with them and one for my angel on the way. I noticed an odd difference in my gun prior to the mod and my teammates. Their's seemed to propel the ball in a very flat way to the point were the first time you shoot it your likely to miss and shoot too high.

What you might notice is that most angel shooters in generally always slightly tilt there gun up at the front to a hardly noticeable extent. Well I was aiming for a can on a tree and missed it, having shot to high. Then I held the gun straight and nailed it dead center. I was amazed and found that I could shoot their angels in a similar way I used to shoot my cockers.

And so I bought the mod knowing that it would be a heavy improvement. Not only that but it helps tremendously with choping, and smooth cycling.

[Silverbullet]

well first off i would recommend taking a course on physics or something because you can not get any gun to shoot farther than other without putting some kind of back spin on the paintball. If your getting too much kick, ditch the dropforward so you'll haev a longer tank. With a longer tank you'll be able to have a more stable marker thus less kick. I run an 88ci tank without a dropforward and i dont get any kick at all.

[C]-[iLDe]

Originally posted by Mr.Ice
I definitely suggest the freeflow ERA mod. I have two teammates with them and one for my angel on the way. I noticed an odd difference in my gun prior to the mod and my teammates. Their's seemed to propel the ball in a very flat way to the point were the first time you shoot it your likely to miss and shoot too high.

What you might notice is that most angel shooters in generally always slightly tilt there gun up at the front to a hardly noticeable extent. Well I was aiming for a can on a tree and missed it, having shot to high. Then I held the gun straight and nailed it dead center. I was amazed and found that I could shoot their angels in a similar way I used to shoot my cockers.

And so I bought the mod knowing that it would be a heavy improvement. Not only that but it helps tremendously with choping, and smooth cycling.

I actually had the opposite experience with the FF Mod. Although the guys at Professional PB were VERY courteous and helpful, I was NEVER able to even get the mod working properly with either of my Angels. I had horrible consistancy and eventually had to just remove it. I would not recommend this mod.

[TazzieDevil]

OK, so a back spin bolt would cause the ball to go further right?

Thats a nice productive answer.

Your comments on me taking a physics course was not required. I never took science, I had no need to.

My support player from my team runs a mini rock and LPR mods on his angel LCD. He gets consistant flat shots, and it out reaches mine by a good 20-30 metres.

[deathfist]

you should learn to spell too.. its trajectory...or learn to proofread... geezee.. kids these days...(LOL....J/K)

silverbullet is right, ditch the drop, or adjust the tank further back on the drop if you can, and hold on to the marker with a firm grip...you could be jerking the trigger which could throw your aim off, you may also need to get used to the feel of it.. it apperas you are comming from a cocker background...

[Silverbullet]

TazzieDevil: The only reason why your friend's marker is shooting farther, IF it really even is, is because he either has the velocity higher, or he is tilting the barrel upwards. Other than that, its all in your head.

[TazzieDevil]

Jeeze, I thought i was gunna meet some friendly peeps here.
Guess not.

Thanks for your answers however, ill go away and do some field tests instead.

[Mr.Ice]

For one I never claimed my friend's gun to shoot further. Physics will be physics, but I feel since he was shooting a good 285 distance between me and him has nothing to do with anything. I speak purely of his accuracy with his *Complete* setup over mine. (Stab, H-rise, 15* asa, rock, boomy, as to my stock.) Yeah , trajectory is based on angle and velocity. Then speak of magic elves in guns has to come to be.

I've heard many stories of the mod not working or making crap out of good guns. Which is why I only do it because there's a tech in my area who specializes in it. He himself, along with two of my teammates' mods have all been complete improvements. My main reason for it is the improvement with chopping at really high rates of fire. I could outrun my friends hopper by 4-5 bps with no problems or chops.

To tell you the truth, if you mentally feel that your gun is shooting further with the addition of a mod this raising your confidents in long distance accuracy, then the mod might aswell actually be doing it. Worth it enough. :D

[matthepepe]

COme on guys lets get this under control and be mature about issues .. no need for flames.

[Bigdog]

Originally posted by TazzieDevil
OK, so a back spin bolt would cause the ball to go further right?

Thats a nice productive answer.

Your comments on me taking a physics course was not required. I never took science, I had no need to.

My support player from my team runs a mini rock and LPR mods on his angel LCD. He gets consistant flat shots, and it out reaches mine by a good 20-30 metres.

Don't think that the backspin bolt does too much (but I haven't tried it), but my experience is that the only way to get flatter shots & longer range is with a longer barrel, and definitely higher velocity, look at the Russian Legion, shooting almost bang on 300 with their IR3s and 20 inch (most of them) Freak Barrels. tje longer barrel will tend to throw the ball flatter, while the velocity keeps it going longer. Or at least thats the way I have seen it to be with all my different markers.

a lot of times another guy seems to be out ranging you cause they automatically aim higher, and if you ask them they'll probably tell you they were aimng straight at you, its mostly habit.

[defdad]

Size does matter! That's why all Freaks will shoot the same. The insert is only six inches, that's where the bore size matches. So after that it's all a matter of what you want to shoot. A longer barrel isn't going to help you shoot further just quieter. With my cocker set at 285psi it doesn't shoot any flater, longer or anyway different than my Angel set at 285psi. But I like the look, feel and mystic of the Angel so that's what I shoot, besides it's faster than the cocker. But my Imp with the Blade may be faster than the Angel. But then it comes back to feel and mystic and the Angel has it over the Imp. Just shoot what you feel comfortable with because other than that it really make no difference.

[Larry@IOG]

I think some guns shoot different IMHO

Larry

[Silverbullet]

Originally posted by Larry@IOG
I think some guns shoot different IMHO

Larry
I think all guns shoot the same, what makes them seem to shoot better or worst is all dependant on the user IMO.

[A.Sanidad-AOG]

To me I think it is all in the balance of the gun....

I had an IMP that just didn't feel right.. put an IFrame on it which pushed the grip forward... perfectly balanced (for me) and it was a shooting machine.

The angel has always been perfectly balanced for me.. that is why I use it... it just feels better in my hands...

[Silverbullet]

hrmm what do u meen shot like a machine? I've never tried balancing my gun. I run an 88ci tank with no drop. :)

[Silverbullet]

J, where do u play? u live in DC area, do u play at AG or VAG? or do play with em MDers.. :rolleyes: ?

and no i've never herd that machine gun phrase.

[Larry@IOG]

To be honest I liek a lcd and the led. I am not baised at all. IMHO I think guns shoot different. I am noway going to start saying impulses shoot farther just because I own IOG. All in all I think ppl should shoot what ever they are more comfortable with.


Larry

[Silverbullet]

sweet, i work at the new Pevs location in Leesburg. Bah, screw OA and Tayney Town, Pevs@AG will be like the Disney Land of Paintball on the east coast yo.

[nutz]

my dark shoots the same distance as my freeflow at the same velocity... sure they might feel a little different but they all shot the same distance if their at the same velocity

:clap:

[twilk]

I 100% garuntee if you pick up a cocker (or other true closed bolt gun) and put it next to an angel, it will have a flatter trajectory, the ball will travel in the air more accurately, flatter, and farther than that of an angel, and on a shot to shot basis, they will be more consistent.

i have taken physics and other science courses. the balls, if not interrupted, will have a tendency to end up in the same place but how they get there is a different story. What was mentioned above about both balls having the same trajectory is true in theory, but false in paintball. In a closed bolt gun the ball is chambered and then fired from a resting position. there is hardly any distortion on it, and far less disruption. in an angel, the ball is in tchamber, on the activation of the micro switch, the bolt strikes the ball and blasts it with air at the same time, this gives one faster ROF, but puts alot of distorion and often un-even impact on the ball, causing a more inconsistent and "lob" like trajectory.

Of course, All the die hard angel owners are going to ignorantly never give up on this "rule of physics" and will probably take it to their grave with them , but next time you are at the fields do some comparisons. ^^^^ HONESTLY^^^^

I have had numerous cockers and angels. i actually prefer angel over cockers. they look better, feel natural, fast as §§§§, can be shot accurately, LOOK PIMP, are machine guns, all around badass.
This is in no way a flame, but a simple explanation.

[GeoTracker]

Open bolts shoot from a stopped position, it's is a common misconceoption to think that the bolt doesn't stop. What do you think that dwell setting is for? So in both cases the ball is not rolling forward, unless you have a horrible paint to barrel match. And if you do have a horrible match it won't matter what marker you're shooting.

One other thing, WARPIG has tested this open vs. closed before. They converted a marker to fire in both modes and they saw no difference.

[C.Carles-AOG]

Physics and ballistics speak volumes on this one. And simply put a paintball (short of a freaking squared or rectangled non-solid, liquid-filled, easily distorted object) is the worse projectile in the world. NEXT!

[C]-[iLDe]

Originally posted by SPEED
Physics and ballistics speak volumes on this one. And simply put a paintball (short of a freaking squared or rectangled non-solid, liquid-filled, easily distorted object) is the worse projectile in the world. NEXT!

So in other words the debate of open vs. closed bolt is moot, because its based on the faulty premise that a sphere is an effective projectile? :clap:

[whgarner]

all things being equal you can only change a few things about distance, trajectory and accuracy.
No matter which marker, barrel or gas source you use a ball coming out of the barrel at 300fps should go the the same distance and land at the exact same spot in a perfect world, however we don't live a perfect world, paintballs are big and small, hot and cold, wind cannot be changed etc.
what are the thing we can change?
1. longer barrels may allow the gas to stay behind the ball longer and give a longer distance
2. barrels also give spin, longer barrels may increase spin and some may put some back spin on it to allow for longer distance.
3. gas- low pressure may allow a larger volume of gas to affect the ball once out of the barrel, see #1 above.
bill g.

[Silverbullet]

1. longer barrels may allow the gas to stay behind the ball longer and give a longer distance

the ball can only accelerate for so long. Ususally about 10 inches of unported barrel is maximum acceleration length

2. barrels also give spin, longer barrels may increase spin and some may put some back spin on it to allow for longer distance.
the only barrel tht i know of that gives a back spin of some sort is the Tippmann Flatline...

3. gas- low pressure may allow a larger volume of gas to affect the ball once out of the barrel, see #1 above.
nope sorry but low operational pressure meens nothing really. It does not affect the ball in anyway.[/B]

[whgarner]

Perhaps I should have been clearer. As indicated in my previous post, the barrel has nothing to do with the ball once it is at 300 fps and outside the barrel, howver some barrels mave have slight discrepancies in sizing that may allow a barrel to inadvertently put a back or forward spin, also right and left, on the ball, non-uniform ball size is also a reason, but balls fall into the chamber at an uncontrollable position, but everytime you screw on a barrel it is usually with 2-3% of the same position.
As far as low pressure vs high pressure it should make a difference because volume of gas to push the ball will be changed, similiar to slapping vs pushing, the force can be the same but the methods for acheiving are not. If a larger volume of gas is used the gas will still have some effect up to 2-3 feet, try blowing leaves by dry firing your gun. this cushion of air will help to protect the ball from more turbulent air flow than a smaller volume of gas.
bill g.

[deathfist]

how much crack did you smoke? the longer the barrel, the more drag the paintball will have whil its traveling the lenght of the barrel.. in a longer barrel the pressure behind the ball decreases more rapidly...apparently you all missed the article in june 2002 APG entitled "Barrels and Pressure, Barrel Theory" written by Tom Kay. in it he states how the barrel and pressure actually work.

i will sumarixe a few key points for you all.
1. the air pressure peaks right when the ball starts moving down the barrel. th ball as it moves down the barrel creates a bigger air chamer (so the usable pressure decreases as this happens) so if you have a long azz barrel, your pressure will substantially decrease as it exits.. if you have a long azz ported barrel, this will happen faster!
2. peak pressure, starts right when the ball moves, if you dont have any way to control the peak pressure (agd does control the peak pressure behind the ball by the way the power tube is designed).. so agd is probably one of the few companies that has done this. i.e. controlling the peak pressure (b the design of the power tube).. in most guns like the cocker, there is no way to control the peak pressure other than lowering the actual output pressure of the marker---hence low pressure markers became all the rage.
3. poted barrels cut off the acceleration of the paintball, obviously, by venting, which will tighten up the shot-to-shot velocity variation.
4. if your peak pressure is high, a short barrel will be fine, if it is lower you will need a longer barrel (we are only talking a matter of a couple of inches here). like 8-10...

so if you have a lowere pressure marker you should shoot a longer barrel and if you have a higher pressure marker you can shoot a shorter barrel...

..possibly the only reason the cocker may be more accurate that other blow-back markers is because it is not a blow back marker. i believe the cocker offers a more stable shooting platform because of this...the actual operation of the action of the cocker makes it more stable. a blow back marker may not be as stable, obviously, because there is some kick to it.. Now, ive heard people complain that their angles have kick... why dont you hold on to it a little tighter.. treat it similar to a real firearm..you dont see people shooting real guns holding on to them with an inadequate grip now do you...
and one last thing.. people have told me that you cant shoot as acurately with the angel.. thats bs. ive gotten plenty of kills with one single shot...its all in the accuracy of the person shooitng the marker...

i know for a fact that my wife is a mcuh better shot that i am with real handguns... and im not talking little crappy .22's either.. my wife can shoot the eyes out of a snake with my 9mm, .357 mag and my .380 acp... the only thing that gives her trouble is pulling the slide back on the autoloaders.. the .357 is a revolver and is here prefered firearm.. oh yeah, it has a 2 in barrel too (the 9 and 380 are 3-1/2 in)...

so you tell me..grip your marker a little better and you may becoem a better shot..oh yeah, controlling your breathing helps a lot too....

love ya
death


(btw, i shoot my lcd angel as my primary marker, the cocker stays in the bag and is my #3 backup...the matrix is my first backup

[FL_pinoy]

Originally posted by TazzieDevil
Good Morning,

Forums looking good, will christen this board with a question :)

I have a 2k C&C, just got it second hand. I played a tournament over the last weekend, but i found that most of my shots were lobbed to get range, this was good in some cases.

However, I play up front and need to have flat shots from my marker to get what im aiming at, having to lob balls takes too long to get on the spot, however, i can lob from the back fine.

What is the best thing to do to my Angel to get a flater range, possibly longer range for tagging those back players if needed?

Thanks

Chris Rosedale
Chris, I also picked up a 2k c&c and noticed the lob and lack of range. I double-checked the lpr and found that it was down to 80psi. The lpr should be within 85-90psi. Since I added 3 shims to bump my lpr to 89 psi, my range and trajectory has improved NOTICEABLY! I'd recommend checking the lpr on your angel and see what that does for you.
Bernie

[mdamon]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah........8, 10, 14, 16?????
does anyone know why my red dark angel shoots farther than my cover players gold lcd??? i didn't think the hue of the ano could make that much difference ..hahaha.
don't fight guys...if you can't get the distance or trajectory....PUSH!! Anyone can hit guys from 2 feet away *laughing*

[Demon]

Just to give you a heads up on the FF Mod, I talked with Mike at Warped Sportz and he said the FF mod will void your warranty. They won't even sell you one with the mod on. I had one on my 2K1 Dark and noticed some difference and I didn't chop at all unlike the 2K C&C I just picked up used. It chops like a cleaver! :clown: