wdp ticks me off [Archive] - Official WDP Angel Owners Group

welt_master2005

08-02-2003, 01:24 AM

i dont know how you could of not known about this, if your a member here, this gun was talked about around the same time the speed was talked about coming out.

if you do some research, you should find talks of two guns coming out this year, when the speed info came out, there was talks of the second gun being an IR4 or basically an IR3 with speed internals which is basically what the A4 is.

im not at all ticked off with WDP, ive known or atleast heard the rumors of the two guns coming out.

captncrunch

08-02-2003, 02:36 AM

cobra sent email to people stating they owuld be doing their cutsom version of the a4 in september/october, obviously customs come out a few weeks/months after, put 2 + 2 together.

Featherlite 55

08-02-2003, 02:39 AM

you could see this coming anyway. Obviously no one would buy the IR3 if the speed had better performance, so you knew they were gonna put the speed internals into the IR3, and call it something with a 4.

captncrunch

08-02-2003, 02:53 AM

now that I think of it, wdp does tick me off about someting, they NEVER update their damn products on their web site, lol/.

SkeL

08-02-2003, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by Ir3Flyer19
speed was never top of the line gun anyways.

Why is that? Because the IR3 costs more?
Not meaning to flame, but a speed is a better performing.
If by "top of the line" you mean the most expensive, than the IR3 takes the cake. Performance= Speed :evilgrin:

JTp8ntballer12

08-02-2003, 04:41 AM

it was never top of line cus we all knew a 4 was comming out soon

iridea929rr

08-02-2003, 11:16 AM

Realistically, the 4 isn't any better performance wise. I beleive it has the same internals, with the exception of a LCD board and the stupid adjustable trigger. It's just like the old days when you could buy an lcd and a led...same guns, one just has more toys!

Kdog-13

08-02-2003, 11:57 AM

Like welt_master said, "how could you post here and not know?" I had many a discussion with people who claimed to know about a cobra speed, which was wrong.

C.Carles-AOG

08-02-2003, 12:17 PM

Why doesn't anyone ever complain when other manufacturer's put out 10 models in one year? It's called progress, and I love it. WDP is out to make money, and they fill niches by placing a certain amount of features at a certain price range. What other manufactuer doesn't? I don't get why WDP should be slammed, just makes no sense...

SkeL

08-02-2003, 01:01 PM

I'm not slamming them at all.
Do you people forget about Timmy owners? A new model comes out weekly. Same thing for cockers.

angelboymofo

08-02-2003, 01:24 PM

i just got my speed about a month ago and once i learned of the angel i was a little pissed off because i was worrying the reatail value of my speed would go down but wdp is producing and thats good. the angel 4 looks pretty sick as a matter of fact.
:clap: :clap:

welt_master2005

08-02-2003, 02:12 PM

there is mo reason to be mad if resale value goes down, that will happen no matter what with ANYTHING you buy.

I personally dont think it will go down that much, maybe 50-100 bucks or so, but thats usually what happens to any gun or car or whatever you buy, so i dont think there is any reason to be mad at wdp for the resale value and infact, if you wanted to sell your speed, IR3, now would be the perfect time to do it.

MoogLe

08-02-2003, 05:59 PM

what do you expect them to do? say DONT BUY OUR NEWEST GUN BECAUSE NEXT MONTH WE'LL HAVE A NEWER GUN!!!

yea that'll really bring in the dollars

Shenanigans

08-02-2003, 09:38 PM

Its targeted at a different group of buyers regardless... I would argue that the majority of people buying Speeds at $900 wouldn't have jumped up to this one at $1400 anyway (and I say majority, not everyone). The 4 probably competes more with the buyers that are shopping Lasoyas and custom Matrices.

Speed values seem to have settled around $800, the 4 isn't going to impact that. People that are shopping used guns are not going to go "oh look, a new 4 that's only $400 bucks more! I'll take that!"

Europort

08-02-2003, 10:39 PM

actually i can understand why some people are mad... I mean, if you pay about 1000 on a gun and 3 months later a better one comes out...

Shenanigans

08-02-2003, 11:12 PM

Yeah some people are going to be ticked but I think that vast majority of players that were prepared to spend $1300+ on a gun didn't go with Speeds anyway.

Sebastian

08-03-2003, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by Shenanigans
Its targeted at a different group of buyers...The 4 probably competes more with the buyers that are shopping Lasoyas and custom Matrices.

But thats the Problem... People are spending big cash... so WDP treleases a marker, not really any better than the Speed...charges alot more...and gets away with it... COST DOES NOT EQUAL PERFORMANCE

Kdog-13

08-03-2003, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by Europort
actually i can understand why some people are mad... I mean, if you pay about 1000 on a gun and 3 months later a better one comes out...

People who were paying attention knew.

welt_master2005

08-03-2003, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Kdog-13
People who were paying attention knew.

maybe you and me were the only ones that were paying attention kdog.

p8nt_junkie

08-03-2003, 01:56 PM

don't know what the big deal is. wdp is a business and like any business you either grow or you die. there is no getting around that. marketing a new gun doesn't make them evil, sp is evil, it just makes thier business grow. along with the growth comes the opportunity for technological advancement. so better stuff should always be on the way! so enjoy the guns you have and look forward to better stuff in the long run.

ocpaintballer86

08-03-2003, 04:07 PM

I am pissed like most everyone else on the message boards I mean paintball guns are more and more like computers everyday not because of the lcd boards and all that **** it is because they day you buy a gun adn walk out of the store it is worth as much as you payed for it an hour ago...... this really makes me mad right now!!! I mean bought the speed thought it would be around like other angels for sometime and be the best one out there and then wdp decides to come out with an lcd speed lol or ir4 or a4 whatever it is called! I am really mad I am thinking of selling my speed and getting one not sure how much they will be though anyone know????? I fell better now that I got all of this out!

Devs

08-03-2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by ocpaintballer86
... boards and all that **** it is because they day you buy a gun adn walk out of the store it is worth as much as you payed for it an hour ago......

I think I know what you're trying to get at, but i'm just a little confused by how you said it. May just be a typo, but that doesn't mean the monkey isnt' confused...

Monkey

C.Carles-AOG

08-03-2003, 06:36 PM

Progress, or die.
What would you do?

acoenfam1

08-03-2003, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Shenanigans
Yeah some people are going to be ticked but I think that vast majority of players that were prepared to spend $1300+ on a gun didn't go with Speeds anyway.

Exactly. Like has been said the Speed was aimed at the low end of tournament electros $900-1000 crowd. While it seems as if this gun is back on WDP's high end and aimed at that crowd. Diferent guns for different markets makes sense to me. Wait until you see the custom versions of this thing we'll be back in the $1500.00-$1800.00 (Dark, Cobra, Impact, etc...)market.

ocpaintballer86

08-03-2003, 09:06 PM

Don't even want to think about that right now.....2000 dollars is to much but I thought 900-1000 was expensive for my speed!

kpaintball

08-03-2003, 09:30 PM

zzz

Roy

08-03-2003, 09:38 PM

Ahh I love WDP . My Ir3 was my love and never let me down .
But since the speed came out the ir3 resale droped bad . And now with this A4 omg it is goin to totally kill IR3 RESALE .
So right when I heard the the A4 release I traded my Ir3 for a sfl Shocktech e blade .

kpaintball

08-03-2003, 09:44 PM

no comment

AngelGuy4200

08-03-2003, 10:01 PM

i guess the only people the A4 really screwed were the people that ordered speed demons...HA,for the same price the A4's got more than milling and a trigger

Kdog-13

08-04-2003, 01:08 AM

Yeah the hardcore WS fans will love it and it's all good, but people trying to have the new stuff and ordered demons must be like whahhh happpennn?

I am glad cobra didn't make a speed and waited for the A4. If they had made a speed mamba knowing the A4 was coming people would be pisssed at them like some ae at WS.

The speed and the A4 were allways designed for different markets.

daddy

08-04-2003, 01:12 PM

you guys are nuts. to say that you have to progress to stay in business is truye but F*&king your customer base repeatedly with new product releases before the last new release has settle is crazy... and as for grow a new line of markers wdp seems to neglect the thought of coming out with a marker under 800 plus dollars.... part of growing a company product line is to get a marker that people in all stages of the game can afford not just the most dedicated tournement players and/ or rich kids... you here alot of trash talking about smart parts but look at what they did .... they had the shocker which was considered the bomb for a good long time then they came out with a line(impulse) that sold for far less and is now damn near the most common marker on the field. so it does need some upgrades to be considered a kick a$$ marker so what the kids could buy it and upgrade from there as they can afford it. where as with wdp you put all your cash out at once (and still end up buying upgrades freak, pipe, etc.)yes you may not want that market but you sell a hell of a lot more and get people to buy alot more in the long run.... don't get me wrong i own a angel and it is great but tell you the truth i also have a matrix and if i knew then what i know now i'd have bought a trix and saved more cash in the long run.
just my 2 cents worth ......

Xposed25

08-04-2003, 04:32 PM

My take on it..

WDP is a business and as a business they're out to make money. Customer service comes second to that (business speaking). As was said, they made two guns for two different markets. The Angel Speed caters to the medium price range as was repeatedly asked by countless owners. The new A4 is geared to those wanting the bells and whistles and willing to pay the price for it. They're a big company and regardless of how many Speed owners are pissed...they will not lose any money nor will they lose market share. Those wanting a true performer without the price will continue to buy speeds. Those that want the newest gun out there or those who want the bells and whisltes will buy the A4.

Really...who cares if your gun is not the newest anymore. Its going to happen regardless of time frame. As long as it performs to what you expect, then all is good. The A4 doesn't have any better performance than the SPeed.

The deterent for us players is the human nature of wanting the newest thing. The A4 is coming out and its newer? So what. I can see people being upset of it completely outperformed the Speed..but it doesn't by any means. WDP knows the mentality of players (i.e. wanting the newest marker). If they continually put out a new marker every 3 months..people will keep buying.

I think everyone should be happy with their speed. They got it a a damn good price for the performance of the marker. A lot of the people didn't want the bells and whistles anyway.

Sorry..not bashing on anyone...hope you didn't take it that way

daddy

08-04-2003, 05:10 PM

i am not bitching or slamming i just believe that the representation of the speed being a middle cost marker is unrealistic...
i think bottom line would be what a bko...
next level stock impy
next timmys
next matrix, lcd angel
next speed,
next ir3, a4, ff trix, nyx trix, adreniline impy's, etc.......

i think middle line marker is supposed to be around 700 tops
900 is hardly middle...
a wise business move for them woulod be to come out with a 600 0r 700 angel or drop the lcd to that price and then they would gain marketshare........they would then be able to sell to the ultra high end marker buyers, and have the kids who get just a taste for what a angel can do.....they would corner the market and crush smart parts.......:fighter:

BONES

08-04-2003, 09:23 PM

Xadin-

The reason why WDP kept it quiet is because of this little word that helps keep them in buisness. It's called a profet, WDP needs to make money to stay in buisness. You dont see car companies selling a brand new Corvette and at the same time saying "If you wait 6 months we will have a better Corvette coming out," because then no one would buy it. No company will tell you a better product is coming out because then no one would buy the current product.

Just my 2 cents-

BONES

JTp8ntballer12

08-05-2003, 06:49 AM

:dito:

and how could u not have known this was happening? c'mon....like they werent gunna have a speed likish gun with a LCD...

Xadin

08-05-2003, 01:04 PM

i guess your right but i mean i think out of respect for people who just bought a speed they should have waited a bit longer to put a new angel into production.

angel2k3boy

08-05-2003, 08:08 PM

can we trust wdp ? i bet next month a ir5 will be comin out!

JTp8ntballer12

08-05-2003, 08:12 PM

if they waited to long BL would Dominate the market, angels would be forgotten...

Devs

08-05-2003, 08:48 PM

JT, I disagree
Although the Timmies are nice guns, they don't ever change. The only thing that BL has done to them is change the milling. Like the species or Dragons. BL will never dominate the market totally. Companies like WDP, Gen-E and AKALMP are going to make sure that doesn't happen. I could say SP with all their Impy versions out there, but I don't like SP. I honestly think that WDP is the only company that we can trust anymore. All BL does is remill stuff. WDP actually tries to improve upon the proven platform.

Either way, thats my $.02

Monkey

arcxiv

08-06-2003, 08:07 PM

From a buissness standpoint, I can totally see what WDP was going for. They're trying to appeal to the high-high end market as they did with the previous angel models. With the exception of the speed, all the angel models have been near the top of the food chain. I'm not saying speeds are crap or anything of the sort, I'm just saying they are the lower end angel (for $900 they are still better than most guns out there anyway). Think... if you had $1500-$2000 in your pocket and you were shopping for a new gun you would see the new E-Blade cocker, the new SP Nerve, the new DYE matrix, and the iR3. Considering that the iR3 has been out for a while, I think people would go with something other than WDP. Even though they are all crazy because angels are the poop, that's most likely what would happen. But now there's "the new A4" to compete with all the new releases. WDP is just keeping pace with todays maket and I don't think people can be pissed about that. If your pissing and moaning about the A4 just because your gun isn't the newest and "best" angel anymore, at least take pride in the fact that you have an angel, wether it be an LED, LCD, iR3, speed or A4... because they all kick ass.

arcxiv

08-06-2003, 08:12 PM

> JTp8ntballer12,

I've been meaning to tell you that dancing bannana is pimp. It's almost hypnotic when you sit there and watch it.

DynastyIr3

08-07-2003, 01:09 PM

I'm actually happy that they're coming out with Speeds and now the Angel 4. These 2 guns made the value of LCD's and IR3's higher because they are now discontinued, and people are selling them for cheap! If you think about it, they're becoming more and more rare and soon the value of them will be a lot of money. I just got a DYE LCD and I'm happy. Hopefully the price of IR3's will be REALLY low in a few months.

lovejuicer77

08-07-2003, 01:17 PM

you got ur stuff all wrong buddy....the value of the lcd and ir3 will go down....now that these new guns are out....the only lcds and ir3's that will have a high value are the rare of limited guns......look at the led....the price of that gun went way down when the lcd and ir3 came out

cA$H mOnEy StUnNa

08-07-2003, 01:30 PM

IMO i do think wdp is kinda slackin with the creativeness

kpaintball

08-07-2003, 01:49 PM

so my gun's retail will increase? Dark 2k3 lcd?

olly

08-07-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Sebastian
But thats the Problem... People are spending big cash... so WDP treleases a marker, not really any better than the Speed...charges alot more...and gets away with it... COST DOES NOT EQUAL PERFORMANCE

Having been at the release in stockholm..There are small improvements made to the A4 overall. I had one in my hands a lot and put paint through them. They are quicker maybe thats just a feeling i dont know (dynasty were of the same opinion). They run at a slightly lower pressure (about 20 psi) they are lighter, shorter and look the business. Worth the Money you bet.... give the guys a break boys and girls, no other company offers the support these guys do..The speed will still be bought in droves..the message they delivered was always one of a pricepoint gun. The A4 is there high end gun.. I for one am glad to see them giving us the customer a choice rather than forcing people into spending $1300 - $1400 to shoort one of there awesome guns.

BruceLeroy

08-08-2003, 10:36 AM

DynastyIR3, you have to realize even though we Angel owners think of our guns as a works of art and they truly are made in limited quantities. They are not limited edition lithographs or artwork. The paintball marker market is technology based. Newer guns make the obsolete guns lose value. Congrats on your Dye Angel purchase. The adds for the Dye LCDs made me go out and buy an Angel LCD.