Chop o'holic

[Don Corleone]

Hello dudes. Great forum!

I have a Speed and I have extreme problems with it. It chops constantly. My friends' speeds works nicely.

I've done nothing to it out of the box and here's my info:

-LPR at standard setting
-Dwell at default
-400psi from air system
-sensi mode 2
-evo2 yboard (new batteries)
-full charge!

I suspect the problem being with the ram. Check these pics I took of it today. Does this look right to you?

[danne h]

have you got shavings in the body

my hammer is silver is it the picture thats wrong or is it copper color

[Don Corleone]

Yes I had shavings in the body.

The colour looks like brass and I think it is brass too.

Should those markings from the boltpin be there? Looks pretty bad to me, but maybe it's normal?

[TopCourage]

WDP came out with two versions of their new hammer. there is the brass one as pictured, which can be seen on the earlier production Speeds and the stainless steel hammers, which is on the later ones.

i know some wear is suppose to be on the hammer, but i am not sure if there is suppose to be that bad. i dont have it that bad on mine. how many shots have you put through your Speed?

[SkeL]

Mine has more damage than that, and I don't chop at all. Run through the usual cause of chopping.
Loader not feeding fast enough, sensi not working correctly, Marker needs another full charge, debri in chamber causing paint to explode.

[Don Corleone]

I've run around 4-5 cases through it.

I just took out the ram and cleaned it and regreased it.

Went out to test it and it still chopped.

Have gone through and eliminated all Skels possible causes of chopping.

[punkd]

it may be yoru sensi is damaged mine is fuxed up too i need to get that taken care of! try a drop test...

[BigDeaner]

May be the evo. A) Make sure that the speed setting is turned alllll the way up. B) Make sure that your evo isnt a piece of ****. Mine was a hunk of junk plain and simple. Mine was also a y board and it didnt even keep up as fast as a revolution. Try a halo and see if that cures the problem.
Dean

[SkeL]

Did you try the drop test? What is your LPR set at? Factory settings may vary. Change dwell to 3 green led's. Turn Evo2 all the way up. Clean sensi rod. Don't rapid fire until sensi has calibrated (about 6 shots)

[Don Corleone]

As I said, there is nothing wrong with the evo.

the dwell is at 3 green bars. The sensi passes the droptest.

I have read the manual twice and about every thread concering the speed here. So obviously the gun is charged and I do calibrate sensi before using it.

LPR is set at 82.5 I think. The setting was the same as two other speeds from other batches.

[IR3Addict]

Hey man take your gated feed out....seriously. I have an ir3, and it was chopping almost everytime...took my gate out and voila!!...just try it...

[paintballaholick]

just wondering....do u have a freak,pipe or any other kind of bore changing barrels?If you do, are u sure u r using the right size bore???

[Don Corleone]

I already took the gated feed out :(

I use an oversized boresize. And that's not the problem. I chop paint! That means the ball is cut in half by the bolt in the breech. I don't get barrel breaks.

[Flanders]

r ur detents stuck...cause that could do it if ur chopping ALOT

they should be very easy to push in

[smasher41]

try using mode 1 or 3, modes 2 and 4 can chop, where 1 and 3 shouldnt.

[danne h]

we have tried all modes and it still chops like hell
even the first ball can break and i use the same paint in my speed and i dont chop

it must be something with the ram but what can i be?
we have it aligned about the same with the bolt pin at the back of the hammer

[Talfuchre]

Dude. Send the damned thing to a tech. If you are chopping the FIRST ball something is so wrong that we cannot give you any help. Send it to TAG and see what he can do. If it is something factory wrong (like the board) it will be covered.

Chopping the first ball is a sign (in my mind of a feed problem) you have eliminated everything normal in the gun. This marker is so FUBAR'd you either need to throw it away or send it to someone who knows more than this board can collectively help you with.

We have suggested everything we know and you have read every thread on the speed. One thing that will not fix this marker is asking this board more questions.

But please tell us what you find out when you do send it in. I would like to know how a Speed can be chopping the first ball. It is not a ram problem I can tell you that.

TF

[Don Corleone]

I have one thing left to try then I'll either throw it away or send it in. Which ever seems most logical :)

[Badger]

yeah a good tech will have that thing runnign perfect in 15 minutes. Send it in. Mine shopped all the time and then I realized it was my halo, which I traded.

[Talfuchre]

Badger. I stopped mine from shopping by taking away its credit cards. That solved that business. ;)

Sorry could not resist. :D

TF

[Razor]

Well, my speed chops like hell too, Im getting a Timmy or an NYX, because this is not what i paid for. In mode 1, after 10 calibrating shots, and a start to rip, i chop, and its godd damn annoying!

So, thats it, Im getting something whith an eye, that wont chop while im ripping, I dont want anymore of this SENSI/COPS crap. :pissed:

[SkeL]

Razor: you sure your sensi is on? That's almost impossible to chop. You have something wrong with your marker, and you need to send it in.

[Razor]

Yes, dead sure SENSI is on, checked and double checked!

I Played the Norwegian Masters this weekend, put about 5-6000 balls through it. Worked ok day one, with sensi on, both mode 1 and 2. Had some chops, but not too bad.

But today in the finals, I chopped every game. And yes, its fully charged twice, and Im running a HALO B on it. Extremely annoying, when my opponents are ripping as hell on their NYX and Vision Imps, and im just sitting there with my squeegee, and shooting curveballs!

Worst thing is, that it passes the SENSI test 10/10 times! And i tried 50-60 times, didnt get ONE malfunction!

Ball detents was also checked, worked flawlessly...

Im really getting annoyed... If its not fixed soon, im getting a timmy or NYX... :(

[tHa cLiPsE]

its cuz you have a Halo Razor.

[Novus6736]

Just to let you all know, I am having the same problem. The gun shoots fine slowly but when I start to walk the trigger with SENSI ON in Mode 2 it chops. The ball is not breaking in the barrel, it is being chopped in half by the bolt which should not be happening.

I have double checked everything and the SENSI was just replaced and passes drop test every time. I think the Sensi is a big POS. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to remedy this problem? I am using an egg wth fresh batteries and everything is set up as it should be.

Thanks.

[MoogLe]

maybe it's your halo, try a different loader, just an idea

[SkeL]

Try a low rise if you can.

[p8ntballdude]

i have my speed with a low rise and a halo b. no te software. i went an played with it as soon as i got it. i chopped 2 times that day. both were on my stupidity. once in the chrono i didn't have sensi on. the next i forgot to do the little 10 calibrating shots crap. thos were the only times. other then that i can rip solid streams of paint no problems with it. sensi is working perfect on mine.

IMO it sounds like u really have a 50/50 shot of getting a good/ bad sensi system. i have heard tons of people complaining that it sucks. i have also heard tons say it kicks arse. i am one of those who say its good.

as for ur gun, i would reccomend sending it in to TAG or somebody really good with guns. he will either fix it, or tell u what u need to do to get it working perfect. trust me, once its working nice u will never even consider a timmy/trix.

[SkeL]

Originally posted by p8ntballdude
once its working nice u will never even consider a timmy/trix.

Couldn't have said it better. :clap:

[Talfuchre]

I think the Sensi system is still a bit touchy / underdeveloped. Mine will not chop but it is slow to read a ball. I run it on mode two and shoot at about 13 BPS but it shoul dbe way faster. I put in a sensor after smashing my other one and that is when ALL the problems started. I am getting a few more sensors to try new ones out. I will let you all know.

TF

[silverdust03]

Yeah, sensi sounds too touchy perhaps you guys should sell me your POS Speeds cheap. :)

[Don Corleone]

Ok now I've cleaned and "tuned" my ball detents. When standing still and shooting at a tree or something I didn't break a ball. When simulating running and shooting, thus moving my marker up and down, I chop like hell.

I will put my gated feed in again and test if that helps, if not I've deemed the speed to be a marker for people standing still and shooting at trees. That's something it does really well.

[jabbster]

Do you have a halo??? If you have a halo you will have no problem with that... Sometimes I feel soo lucky, my demon is sexy, have never had a problem with it chopping and used it in a tourney and 2 days of practice...

Sincerely,

The jabbster

[SkeL]

Leave the gated feed membrane OUT if you are using a force fed hopper ( Evlution2, halo)

[cameroncarnes]

I personally do not like the SPEED. I still use my Dark IR3 w/ ACE and it works flawlessly.

[Razor]

I dont buy the theory about the HALO messing up the Speed.
The thing has got 2 friggin detents, so how would a HALO screw it up?

Seriously, I can only think of the SENSI being the weak point here.
IMO, WDP should have gone with an eye from the beginning, or at least given the new models (SPEED, IR4) eyes, and admit that the SENSI/COPS don't work as well as the would like it to.

I run a Twisted low rise (Soon A+) and a HALO B, and still chop while standing still, shooting at a tree. This is not good enough for å 950$ marker.

[SPEED2003]

thats weird i use a revvy and outshoot it all the time and i still dont chop... ever

[gabs]

Same problem here, me and my teammate.

new Halo B TE software, and a check-it lowrise.

All settings default, LPR at 82, input 400. Sensi test passes 30/30.

Chop like hell i mode 1, 2, 3 and 4 with the halo...

When I changed hopper to a eggy II, I did'nt chop, When I tired a Richo and a Revy, I only chop when walking the trigger - no matter what mode..

This is the case on both our Speeds, and we think both think it sux (gr)ass. We expected more from a 1500$ setup (w/conquest)..

Are there any spesial settings for LPR and Dwell to make the HALO work on Speeds? I read somthing about that in the HALO FAQ..

[Razor]

Gabs: Make sure your Speed is fully charged (FULLY)
Had the same problems, charged it and problems went away. But after a short while, I had the same problems. A new charge solved the problems again.

Nevertheless, im selling my Speed. It sucks beeing required to charge my marker every god damn day.

Strange Impulse, here I come.

[pntbalmatt]

it sounds to me like these people are getting excessive blowback and pushing the balls up in the tube. That would definately cause chopping.

[Razor]

Dont think so. We use HALO B's, and that wont allow balls to jump up the feedtube.
And if it did, SENSI is supposed to notice that, and prevent the marker from fireing.

[dooksdooks]

stretch your detent springs a pinch then toss em back in

for sure it's your halo overfeeding. you chop even when shooting very slowly right? if so, its your halo overfeeding.

if you break paint when shooting slowly with your halo, try a revvy or egg and shoot slowly, if you're still breaking paint, then i have nfi whats wrong with your gun. but if you're not, then you know its your halo. i use a halo on my gun, for the first two months or so it shot perfectly, then the springs on my detents started wussing out and i began to chop ALOT. i stretched the springs a pinch, put it back together, and its all good again.

[BLUEWAVEsc]

No... I think HALO Bs do have an impact on the chopping of the speed. Because of the Force Feed on a HALO, I think that the force feed stimulates the feel of the balls being pushed on the sensi--Which allows the gun to shoot, but the balls are at the same time being pushed down, while the bolt is being pushed. JUST for a test, try shooting on Modes 2 and 4 if you're using a Halo, and like Skel said, take out the gated feed.

[BLUEWAVEsc]

Originally posted by Talfuchre
I think the Sensi system is still a bit touchy / underdeveloped.


*points finger at monitor*

Your Speed hasn't gone through puberty yet...

*childish laugh in the background*


jk.

[gabs]

I'll try stiffening my detents, and charging.

Razor: You prob. have a 5.8v Solenoid, thats why charging is helping, the battery only gives 4.5v.

Another thing, I heard that shooting too slow will make the HALO chop, as this gives the HALO time to shove another ball into the breeach. The concave face on the speed bolt, makes it even worse (more room). Thats why they added the "bumper" on the A4 bolt.

[Osmoosi]

The problem with chopping on force-fed loaders on Angels amounts partially to the cupped bolt face and the rotobreech. Due to the rotobreech being able to open, the bolt rests a short length back from where it is in other markers (right behind the feedneck).

When a ball is fed into an Angel, it can roll back toward the bolt and another ball may partially feed on it. When firing, the ball will bobble up the feedtube on a non-forcefeeding loader, or be possibly cut on a forcefeeding loader. The cup-like bolt face allows the ball to roll even further into the breech.

The problem with the SENSi/COPS system is it's sensor. The piezo element can only detect the impact of the paintball falling on it, not whether there is a ball or not. Therefore the drop test doesn't notice a ball when you just put one on the sensor rod. When running and gunning, you'll end up in a situation where you're shooting fast and the loader may not be keeping up. The ball will impact against the sensor and bounce up before you fire the marker, resulting in a chop.

The above problem exists in non-HALO loaders, the Evolution included as it requires a gap to be detected in the feeding to activate like the other VL loaders. The HALO may suffer from the forced chop problems. This depends on the individual loader and the paint used (the brittleness).

On optical break-beam paint sensors the bouncing problem is alleviated as the paintball will stop breaking the beam as it is raised from the breech, therefore making it more difficult to "fool" the system into chopping.

[gabs]

Thank you Osmoosi. Best explaination I've heard so far (karma+)- and I agree - The Angel still has design flaws. And they are the cause of my and others problems.

I guess the best fix for a chop free Angel still is getting an optical paint sensor.

hmm, wonder if you can hook an ACE/Cyclone eye up to the sensi??? That way you won't have to mess with your motherboard, just you sensor..

:)

[Osmoosi]

A possibility would be to build a replacement board with one of the small surface-mount microcontrollers that would emulate the impact of a ball to the SENSi lines as the eye detects a ball.

Though the bounce problem would remain - it's inherent to the SENSi as it doesn't disallow shooting when a ball is no longer detected (as it cannot detect a ball leaving, it's just reset after each shot).

Yes - SENSi/COPS is a good system but it certainly has its flaws... The antichop-eye was one of the best upgrades money could buy on the LCD/V6 Angels. WDP took their own shot, which didn't compromise the cosmetics, but unfortunately wasn't such a good idea as it must've sounded in the design. People usually spend greater sums on bolts, low pressure internals etc. to make the marker not chop than it would take to install an eye. Often with less than great results.

[Razor]

Well, after readion Osmoosi's post, I started to tinker with my bolt.

After some experimenting, I managed to glue a little piece of foam-like material to the front of my bolt, that should keep that .25 ball out of the breach, by pushing the fed ball 0.5 cm forwards.

Looks pretty good, and since it is foam, it wont pierce the center of the ball when the bolt hits it.
(Does the bolt even hit the ball during fireing? Or is it the airpressure that does the job?)

[Osmoosi]

The bolt does touch the ball when firing. It pushes the ball into the beginning of the barrel before the hammer hits the exhaust valve, releasing the pressure behind the paintball -> launching it.

The Speed bolt is pretty much an open-face bolt with a support frame for the ball. Older-style "venturi" bolts with a ring of holes (iR3 length for a good fit in the Speed) have a larger area in the middle for an automag-style foamie.

The bolt does have a groove in the middle for the Sensi rod, and a stop could be installed behind the SENSi rod to stop a paintball from rolling back despite the weight of the paintballs above or the forced pushing of a HALO. The groove would pass the stop and be unhindered about it, though the paint wouldn't roll over it. The groove might need to be lenghtened a bit to accommodate the stop.